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Old 02-20-2011, 12:30 AM
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Default .45 ACP 250 Grain PinBusters!

About 4-5 years ago I shot a bunch of pin shoots using loads of 200 gr lead RNFP. It was fun but I never stuck with it. Shortly after that I went to grab some more lead and I saw the 250 Gr PinBusters! from Missouri Bullet Company. I figured 500 rounds of 250 gr lead would be a good time. Break up the 2K of the 185- 200 gr fun a little.

Since I got them I have had one hell of time finding load data. The only place and I mean only place was in the load sheet that comes with the Lee Die set. Anyway I loaded a few and let me tell you they have a hell of a kick. So much so I finished a magazine and kept the rest for another day. I am not recoil shy, not at all, it was that the 1911 slide was smashing home. I did buy some heavier recoil springs but have not ventured out with this particular load again.

I know pin shoots were a fairly hot sport not so long ago and that speed counted. But the recoil seemed to out weigh the benifit of such a heavy loading IMHO.

So I guess what I am really asking has anyone else ever shot this load before? Did you have a load that worked good for you? Hell maybe some 250 grain and or pin shoot stories would be good to go as well! Just hate to see lead that is not flying out the end of a barrel.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:41 AM
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It's been years since I've shot any of those heavy bullets out of a acp. I used to have an old lyman mold 454613? & shot them for a couple of years. I found that they didn't do anything major to improve my times & just beat on the 1911 more than it ever deserved.

I just use a 200gr bullet anymore for everything in the 45acp. It seems like an excellent speed/weight ratio that's easy to grip it & rip it.
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:27 AM
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The 1911's we had in the Corps back in the early '70's had been abused for so long that you could throw the gun at an enemy and do better than trying to shoot them with the thing!

For that reason, and the fact that you couldn't touch a 1911 unless it was a $1000 Colt, which wouldn't fly when I was trying to raise 5 kids on one income, I didn't own a 1911 until S&W made their first SS model. That thing was a shooter! But alas, I felt I NEEDED something else so I sold it. Then, when Taurus first offered their PT1911 I gave them a real close look. Mainly, because I am cheap though, I admit.
All of the features that most "custom" guns had in the day, and the same ones all of the "loaded" versions have offered today and only $450 new out the door.
It shoots so well, that I often feel guilty singing it's praises! It will shoot everything from 200gr LSWC loaded for PPC, around 800fps, piling up brass at your feet, to 230gr LRN loaded to original spec's and piling up brass 10ft to the rear and right.

I guess I am just trying to say that I don't beat up my PT1911 too much.

Now, my M625JM? That platform takes a beating! It can handle it though.

I have a 240gr LSWC load that gives me 1100fps from that 4" barrel. Will that load do pins? OH, YEAH! Fast? No but really fun!
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:46 AM
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I do not shoot pins. That said, my reloader does. He uses the same bullet I do - 225 gr. copper plated flat tips. He loads to about 900 fps and, if trophies mean anything, he's successful as is the round and his Ed Brown.
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:14 AM
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I thought you were talking about a different Pin Buster bullet, but alas, this is merely the common 250 gr. RNFP that is routinely loaded in the .45 Colt. Anyway, I have done quite a bit of loading of 250ish gr. bullets in the .45 ACP, mostly for my 625 revolvers, but also my Glock 21. Cartridge OAL will be your most important consideration in the auto, and you'll need to load short enough that they feed through the magazine. Be very conscious of pressure when you do this. I found that 231 is an acceptable powder, but Power Pistol is better and more forgiving. Actually, I recently loaded up a bunch of this very same cast bullet in steel cases, just to get rid of these bullets and the steel at matches where I am too lazy to pick up my brass. I loaded them to 165 Power Factor, which will probably be lighter than what you want. I never did a whole lot of pin shooting, but I found that the 225 gr. FP at 900+ FPS was satisfactory, and that's what I'd use if I did it again.

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Old 02-20-2011, 03:15 PM
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I shoot bowling pins a lot (at least two matches every month). I shoot a 255 gr LSWC from missouri bullet company (Cowboy #9). I use a 4" 625.

OAL: 1.206
4.8 gr Universal Clays
804 feet per second

This gives me a power factor right around 203. It's generally acknowledged that a power factor of 190 is about the minimum you need to reliably move the pin four feet back and all the way off.

We get into a lot of 'discussions' about the various benefits of smaller bullet moving faster vs bigger bullets moving slower. But most of the guys I shoot with are moving into the bigger bullets slower camp. Even the top 357 shooters are using 180 gr bullets.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjjj View Post
I shoot bowling pins a lot (at least two matches every month). I shoot a 255 gr LSWC from missouri bullet company (Cowboy #9). I use a 4" 625.

OAL: 1.206
4.8 gr Universal Clays
804 feet per second

This gives me a power factor right around 203. It's generally acknowledged that a power factor of 190 is about the minimum you need to reliably move the pin four feet back and all the way off.

We get into a lot of 'discussions' about the various benefits of smaller bullet moving faster vs bigger bullets moving slower. But most of the guys I shoot with are moving into the bigger bullets slower camp. Even the top 357 shooters are using 180 gr bullets.
Straying OT a bit, but at what point are the pins replaced with new ones? I have shot a few on a recreational basis and have wondered how much effect the extra weight of bullets stuck in them impedes their movement off the table.
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:47 PM
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cjw - most of the clubs I shoot with keep reusing pins until they won't stand up, or there's a big enough gouge out of a side that they won't roll cleanly... and even then we mostly cut the pin tops off and use them in 22 only tables.

I'v seen pins take 30 to 40 hits and as few as four or five. Winter is tougher on them, cold pins splinter a lot faster.

An yes, you can definately see the difference in a pin that's been shot alot. But then again, that's also kinda the point about the 190 power factor thing. That's enough power to move even a heavily shot up pin off the table.

A 9mm will take a brand new pin off the table if it hits square, it might take it off even with a bit of a miss. On a shot up pin a 9mm is dicey even with a perfect hit, and almost guaranteed to put the pin down but not off the table with a bit of a miss.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:26 PM
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I shoot pins a lot.

My load for new pins in both guns is 230gr cast conical flat point over 4.5 of Titegroup. 790 FPS in 1911, 761 in the 25
After they get heavy I bump up to 5.0 Titegroup. 877 FPS in 1911, 850 in the 25


We shoot an auto class and separate revolver class. Most of the time I use the M25 for revolver but once in a while the Redhawk gets out.


That one starts with 240 cast SWC over 5.0 Titegroup 680 FPS, then go to 6.0 Titegroup at 912FPS.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:31 PM
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So after loooking at Forrest r's load book pic it shows HS7's start load as 8.8. I refered to a burn rate chart and found HS7 as #59 in the list. The closest powder that I have on hand is True Blue. It is rated on the chart as #56. Only three levels faster.

So would the masses agree it looks like it would be safe to try a load of True Blue @ about 8.5 grains or so. Or do you think this might be a little to low?

For those that have loaded for this round...could you suggest a decent starting load related to the powders I have on hand? I have the following powders on hand that work in .45 ACP: Auto Comp, Universal, WSF, 231, WST, Titegroup, True Blue, AA No 5, and Unique, wheww!

Is there any other known load book that has this load? Other than the older Hodgdon Book Forrest r listed?
I have Hornady 8th edition, Sierra Edition V 2nd printing, Speer #13 and Hodgdon 2009-20011 Annual Manuals and there is nothing. Nevermind the internet available factory and forum charts. Damn, there is alot of data out there!
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:33 PM
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I must have been typing while Roundgunner was postin!
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:58 PM
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I use the Lyman 452424 @ 260 grains over 4.7 grains of Universal Clays in my .45 autos.


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Old 02-20-2011, 08:27 PM
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I already mentioned my load with Universal
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:29 AM
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I'd start with the HP38 load range shown in the load book picture. It is the same powder as the W231 you have. I've shot 4.8 grains of HP38/W231 under that 250 grain bullet and it shoots great out of my Colt Commander. Didn't chrono it, but I'm guessing just touching 700 fps. I also used HS6 with similar results.

If you look over on 1911Forum.com, there are a few guys who shoot heavy bullets exclusively. They use Unique and other mid-range powders. AA 5 might also be good (there is load data for a similar plated bullet in my Lee manual). I'd stay away (AWAY!) from the fast powders like Titegroup/Bullseye/Clays/WST due to the increased seating depth and pressure.

Last edited by Hammerdown77; 02-21-2011 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:10 AM
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Magnus 255 lrnfp, 1.171 col, Fed 150 primer, 4.7 grains unique, about 770 fps from 5 in and extremely accurate.

If the barrel has a long enough leade, 1.247 col and 5.0 grains unique

The col and charge that work best may be individual to the leade in your barrel, and the diam of the bullet being used, especially the dia in front of the cannelure. The various 255 lrfp's tried were based on the standard mold, and sized to a greater dia than the 200 lrnfp's tried and had a full diameter in front of the cannelure.

The best bullet tried came from a Lee 255 lrnfp mold and had a larger meplat and lesser diam ahed of the cannelure (if memory holds).

Forgot to mention the 45 acp semi used has a slightly stronger recoil spring in it.

Last edited by zeke; 02-21-2011 at 09:11 AM. Reason: recoil spring mention
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:58 PM
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i loaded some 255 swc for my 625 with unique, they shoot pretty good in the 3 inch gun!
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:32 AM
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I shot several different bullets about 5 years ago with 13.0 gr of 2400 out of a 5" M625. A 240 gr tumble lubed Lee averaged 873 fps, a 255 gr Oregon Trails averaged 1005 fps and a 270 gr custom averaged 925 fps.

2400 is a lot easier to use than Unique and may well perform in an acceptable manner if it was loaded at 12.0 gr.

Some 255 gr bullets seat very deep, like that Oregon Trails, so be careful not to jump your pressure.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:45 AM
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I cast 50/50 Wheel Weights and Lino and 4.7 Gr. 231 for pins in my .45 Autos. Shoot quite well and these 255 Gr. take them off the table nicely.


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Last edited by John@JCDLESales; 02-23-2011 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:27 AM
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Default Load Data

I found this on LoadData.com...hope it helps.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 45 ACP 250 Grain Loads.pdf (18.7 KB, 335 views)
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:28 AM
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Thank you Bomberman for the data, it was so long ago that I used to load the heavy bullets in the 45acp; I couldnít remember what speeds I was getting with them. After reading your data I remember my bullets being in the same speeds as your data.

There seems to be a real steep drop in velocity with the 45acp bullets shot out of a 5Ēbbl 1911 when you get over 240gr bullets. I remember using mag powders & hot roding the reloads to the max trying to get the velocities up on the heaver bullets. In the end I found I was doing nothing more than beating an excellent pistol to death.

Thatís a great nose profile on Johnís bullets. I shoot the same bullet in the 45acp, but I use the 200gr bullet. That design puts a nice smack on pins/plates; itís a very solid hitting sound as whatever you hit goes flying. I also use that bullet design in the 38/357 loads & Iím thinking of getting that design for the 44spl/mag. That bullet design just feeds well in everything Iíve tried them in, hits hard with no ricochet or bounce back has an excellent crimp groove that will easily take a taper crimp or a roll crimp.

These guys that are lucky enough to own the 25/625 platforms probably do very well with the heavier bullets. I ended up beating up 2 1911ís pretty badly with the heavy bullets & the supped up loads. One was a 70 series steal framed colt commander. I basically turned it into a pile of junk after 1 season of beating on it. I started to egg shape the holes that the slide stop went into.

Good luck with it, in the end I found that I could run a 200gr bullet @around 900fps mild/1000fps hot, a 230gr bullet @around 850fps mild/900fps hot or a 260gr bullet @around 750fps mild/800fps hot. Thereís just not that much gain in a 1911 with the heavier bullets +30gr bullet weight for Ė 100fps in speed.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:01 AM
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Forrest r- Reloaders could use a lead wide meplat 200 rnfp without any cannelures. Am currently using 200 lrnfp's in 45 acp, 45 AR and 45 Lc.
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1911, 45acp, bullseye, cartridge, colt, commander, crimp, glock, hornady, model 25, model 625, ppc, primer, redhawk, taurus, universal

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