Thoughts on Suitable Powders for 38+P / 357 Loads

boatbum101 · #1 03-01-2011, 05:16 PM

Got a bunch of Lyman 358429HP's & 200 Lyman 358156GC ready to go . I'm going to be shooting these out a 66-7 . The 156's in 357 I probably stick with the tried & true ie 13.5gr 2400 or 14.5gr 4227 . The 429's are for 38+P as they're 1:16 . Been following all this talk about HS-6 , HS-7 & 4756 . I have zero experience with these . I'm thinking 4227 & 2400 are going to be pretty dirty as I'm not going to go for 38/44 levels . The 429HP with 1:16 usually gets good expansion when pushed 1000 - 1200fps . BTW this is out a 4" barrel . I'm thinking 5 - 6gr Unique / Universal , 6gr N340 , 11.0gr 2400 , 12.0gr 4227 etc . Don't want to exceed 20K cup . If you don't feel comfy you can e mail / PM me . I don't want to start another Speer #8 debate . Thanks ,
Andy

38-44HD45 · #2 03-01-2011, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatbum101

I don't want to start another Speer #8 pissing contest . Thanks ,
Andy

Well, then why should we respond at all?

I love SR-4756, and THE LOAD. It may exceed 20KPsi, but I don't plan on shooting such loads in pot metal guns, so I don't worry.

boatbum101 · #3 03-01-2011, 05:25 PM

Didn't mean to start nothing . You gotta admit " The Load " in a K frame is a bit much . I don't even want old Elmer's load either . Out of a N frame , Ruger or similar built guns y'all are right .

38-44HD45 · #4 03-01-2011, 05:29 PM

Oh, I know; you made that clear. I was just yanking your chain a little. I don't worry about THE LOAD in K-frames made after 1950 or so, or in most any steel J-frame. Others do. I'm not advocating anything, just stating personal preferences.

boatbum101 · #5 03-01-2011, 05:40 PM

Understand . We're men . If it don't make noise , spit flames nor make a mess , we ain't interested . Not to mention if it flies , floats or fornicates . First one's on me if I ever have the pleasure .

Skip Sackett · #6 03-01-2011, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 38-44HD45

Oh, I know; you made that clear. I was just yanking your chain a little. I don't worry about THE LOAD in K-frames made after 1950 or so, or in most any steel J-frame. Others do. I'm not advocating anything, just stating personal preferences.

I have a M60 -13 that is stoked with them in an ankle holster right now!

In the J frame, they are a handful BUT virtually no forcing cone and the bolt lugs are in the "meety" part of the cylinder, I mean, what could happen?

papajohn428 · #7 03-01-2011, 06:45 PM

I'm a big fan of Lil Gun in the 357, WST in the 38 Special. I gave up on 2400 years ago, same for 4227. I don't mind having a powder for each caliber, I buy powders by the keg and get what I like.

38-44HD45 · #8 03-01-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatbum101

Understand . We're men . If it don't make noise , spit flames nor make a mess , we ain't interested . Not to mention if it flies , floats or fornicates . First one's on me if I ever have the pleasure .

I'd take you up on that!

I knew that Skip would surface if I mentioned 4756 and THE LOAD!

boatbum101 · #9 03-01-2011, 07:18 PM

I like WST & W231 in 38 target loads . 231 is the more flexible of the 2 . I'm looking for a little more horsepower . Lil Gun I'm leary of , but admit I've never used it . Heard stuff about high flame temp , forcing cone / throat errosion . Seriously what can it do that others don't ?

Skip Sackett · #10 03-01-2011, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 38-44HD45

I'd take you up on that!

I knew that Skip would surface if I mentioned 4756 and THE LOAD!

I think THE LOAD is cool!

ColColt · #11 03-01-2011, 08:39 PM

Will Rogers once said he never met a man he didn't like. I don't think there's any powder the 38/367 doesn't like either. A most versatile group of powders for these and 7.5-8.5 gr of HS-6 with the CCI 550 primer and 158 gr LSWC is one of my favorite and most accurate loads in the 357 case. 6.0 gr of PP is a superb load as well for the 38+P loads. 38+P? Hard to beat about 4.5 gr of 231 or 6.5 gr of HS-6. Did I mention I like HS-6? Universal is another favorite.

cjw3 · #12 03-01-2011, 10:32 PM

I use 14.0/2400 with the 358156HP in my 4" 686. I average 1216 fps; not a bomb but a good usable load. A very heavy crimp will go a long way toward burning up 2400 in that short a barrel, but that is as short a barrel as I would use with it.

In .38 Special, I use 231 for standard loads and Unique when I want to rev them up a little. I also tried 11.0/2400 in my 8 3/8" K-.38 with that 358156 and got 1100 fps. 5.4/Unique with the same bullet in the K-.38 gave me 1019 fps. It stands to reason that the slower powder benefits more from the long barrel.

Since I have a .357 and a .44 there doesn't seem to be much point in pushing it with a K frame, at least not on a regular basis but I was curious about it so gave it a try.

The above load of Unique with 358156, 358477 and commercial cast 158 SWC's gets around 890 from my M15. Again, a good heavy crimp helps it get burned up properly.

When working up loads, one thing that I watch for is how well the case seals the chamber. If they come out with an appreciable amount of soot around the neck, the load is a little on the light side to suit me. While they may be accurate, you will typically have more unburned powder and thicker soot on the gun to contend with. For use at longer range you also must hold higher than with a faster load.

The above loads of Unique and 2400 in .38 Special are from the Lyman 45th edition; the 2400 load was dropped from the 47th but the Unique load was retained.