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Old 03-27-2011, 02:29 AM
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Default .44 cast bullet conundrum

Bummer!I'd like to start casting bullets for.44 Magnum, so I looked up the only .44 bullet mould I have---Lyman 2660421, the famous "Keith" in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. There are some .44 Mag recipes for the mould but they are for use in Thompson Center Contenders as the OAL (1.710")with .44 Mag brass are too long for most magnum chambers.
does anyone here know of .44 mag loads for this bullet which will safely work in a M29? If not, what is a Keith type would work in a M29?
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Old 03-27-2011, 06:15 AM
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The chamber on your M629 will take the Keith bullet just fine IF it is in brass that isn't too long and you crimp in the crimp groove. Now, they won't fit in a Ruger M77/44 magazine, effectively making your bolt action rifle a single shot but they will chamber.

I, and a whole lot of other folks, have used this bullet for a few years in all of their M29/M629s with no problems at all.

Here is a picture of my Keith style bullet, it is an H&G #503 and not the Lyman, but the same bullet nonetheless.



Here is my new bullet for it though. Nothing to do with this topic, just sayin'!

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Old 03-27-2011, 01:08 PM
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Thanks! Now I won't have to buy another mould. That warning in the Lyman book was a bit disconcerting!
Thats a beaut of a hollow point, btw!
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Old 03-27-2011, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovnnes View Post
Thanks! Now I won't have to buy another mould. That warning in the Lyman book was a bit disconcerting!
Thats a beaut of a hollow point, btw!
The bullet is 429421, the 266... number is a catalogue number. 429421 is the classic bullet for the .44 Magnum cartridge since the days when S&W (and Ruger) were the only guns available for the cartridge.

I have no idea what you are looking at, but this bullet, when loaded to the cannellure, will give a cartridge LOA almost exactly 1.610". All the data in the Lyman manual shown for this bullet, except that specifically noted as for T-C, will be appropriate for a S&W .44 Magnum revolver.

It is possible there is a typo under the T-C data showing an incorrect length, but the issue is pressure with that data, not length.
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Old 03-27-2011, 05:13 PM
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In the beginning, the H&G version of the "Keith S&W" was true to Elmer's design while the Ideal/Lyman 429421 was not and, therefore, the H&G was preferred. The reason was that the Ideal/Lyman version had a round grease groove while Keith specified a deep, square one which would carry a lot of lube down the bore. Lyman eventually changed this detail to match the H&G mold.



Bruce
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Old 03-27-2011, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by smith crazy View Post
The chamber on your M629 will take the Keith bullet just fine IF it is in brass that isn't too long and you crimp in the crimp groove. Now, they won't fit in a Ruger M77/44 magazine, effectively making your bolt action rifle a single shot but they will chamber.

I, and a whole lot of other folks, have used this bullet for a few years in all of their M29/M629s with no problems at all.

Here is a picture of my Keith style bullet, it is an H&G #503 and not the Lyman, but the same bullet nonetheless.



Here is my new bullet for it though. Nothing to do with this topic, just sayin'!


That lead HP looks like the old Speer Flying ashtray! One big hole. Are HP's harder to cast than regular ones??
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:38 PM
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I'll make up a dummy round just to make sure of course, but I am relieved since I really like this mould and the bullets it throws. I wonder what Lyman's beef is with it? They did build the thing!
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:21 AM
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Here is an example of the VERY early IDEAL 429421 !

Jerry





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Last edited by GLL; 03-28-2011 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:59 AM
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Jerry,

I hate you! Your pictures are always the BEST!

Just wondering though, that is a serious grease groove. Deeper and wider than all others I have ever seen. I even had an H&G #503 for a while and I don't think the relationship between the bands and groove were quite that much different. They were all the same size, if memory serves me right.

There should be no problem with leading if you can get the alloy right! I bet lube is all over the muzzle of most guns you shoot that out of!

WOW!
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Old 03-28-2011, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCD1 View Post
That lead HP looks like the old Speer Flying ashtray! One big hole. Are HP's harder to cast than regular ones??
Sorry, just saw this.

Casting hollow points are can be tougher to cast but these aren't. It is because of the mould though. They are from a mp-molds.com mould and can be really fast and fun to cast with.

Go to the website and look on the tips and tricks tab to see how to use one of them. Very simple.

I wish now I would have gotten this in GC variety. They work very well from a handgun but I am trying to get them to work well in a carbine. Cannot seem to get them to retain their accuracy at the velocity I want. Hyperspeed!
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:52 AM
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The #503 is on the extreme left. For comparison the 429421 is third from the right.

There is a lot of variation in LYMAN 429421 moulds through the years and for awhile some more recent designs had rounded lube grooves !

Jerry

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Old 03-28-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smith crazy View Post
Jerry,

I hate you! Your pictures are always the BEST!

Just wondering though, that is a serious grease groove. Deeper and wider than all others I have ever seen. I even had an H&G #503 for a while and I don't think the relationship between the bands and groove were quite that much different. They were all the same size, if memory serves me right.

There should be no problem with leading if you can get the alloy right! I bet lube is all over the muzzle of most guns you shoot that out of!

WOW!
According to what Elmer wrote the alloy he was using was 16 to 1 lead tin. Most folks don't believe it but an undersize hard cast bullet will lead like mad but a soft, oversize slug, with a good lube and plenty of it, won't.

Elmer also had quite a bit of experience with real gunpowder. One of the keys to accuracy with blackpowder is enough lube to keep the fouling soft all the way to the muzzle and beyond.

There should be a nice "star" of lube on the crown.

I used to have an old Super Blackhawk I tried cast bullets in and had leading so severe it came out in slivers on the brush when I'd clean it. "Everyone" told me wheelweights were too soft for a magnum. I tried hardcast commercial, still leaded. Even casting pure linotype wasn't hard enough.

It was an old, old gunsmith who showed me the light. The source of the leading was not the bullets being too soft. The problem it was coming out of a cylinder with .4295 chamber mouths into a .432 bore. Once that mismatch was fixed bullets bullets as soft as 20 to 1 didn't lead even on top of ridiculous amounts of 2400.

Lyman changed the 429421 design several times through the years. The advantage of the rounded groove is the mould fills out better than the deep square groove. I'd like to find one of the "originals." Sized .002 over bore it should carry enough lube to keep a 30 to 1 alloy alloy from leading.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:25 PM
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Here is an example of one of the newer LYMAN rounded lube groove versions that has been converted to HP.
Its design is quite different than the earliest IDEAL unvented moulds with the square grooves.

Jerry

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Last edited by GLL; 03-28-2011 at 02:28 PM.
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44 magnum, 610, carbine, cartridge, commercial, crimp, fouling, gunsmith, m29, m629, model 29, ruger, thompson

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