I recently picked up a 629-4 Mountain Gun, and want to do some reloading for it. I also picked up some 240gr Hornady lswc bullets, which are fairly soft, and have ordered some 245gr lswc bullets that are about Br. 18. I've tried some of the Hornady bullets over 6.8gr of Unique, and they are very accurate, but lead a little. They are .430, as are the 245's. I was wondering if anyone could recommend some loads for both bullets using other powder, such as Bluedot, Lil'gun, Titegroup, or any other powder other than Unique. I like how Unique performs, but would like to try something different. I have a few reloading manuals, but I'd like to hear form some forum members about burn rates, efficiency out of a 4" barrel, and so forth.

By the way, I am not a magnum fan, so I plan on keeping my loads to 950fps or less for the most part, and generally dislike jacketed bullets. I much prefer 45colt, and 45autorim to 44mag, but I'm trying to warm up to 44special level loads. I'd appreciate any advice and info you have to offer.

Thanks
Hastings

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Hastings

Long ago I settled on 6.0 to 6.5 grains of Red Dot in a 44 mag case with a 240 grain bullet as a target / small game load. It is accurate and consistent in most all my guns. Gives about 900 fps depending on barrel length.

Larry

HP 38/Win 231. I use it for everything.(Well almost)

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Still Running Against the Wind

My recommendation is stay with the medium burners for this application. The slow burners (W296, H110, Accurate #9, VihtaVuori N110) will not be able to generate the pressure they need to be efficient, while the fast burners have to generate a lot of pressure to provide the velocity you want. Plus the fast burners take up so little of the case's capacity that double and triple charges won't jump out at you, and even cases without powder can be difficult to spot. Trust me, 6.0gr of Titegroup (which is a dark powder to start with) literally disappears in a .44 Magnum case...

Loaded under a 245-255gr LSWC bullet and ignited by a standard large pistol primer, Hodgdon's Universal Clays, VihtaVuori's N340, Ramshot's True Blue, and Alliant's Unique will provide what you're looking for in a moderate .44 Magnum load. I know you said you don't like Unique, but 8.0-8.5gr of Unique under a 245-255gr Keith bullet is a classic .44 Magnum loading.

5.0gr. Bullseye under the 245 SWC in the .44 Magnum, in the .44 Special I also use 5.0gr. Bullseye under a 200gr. RNFP. For ladies and juniors wanting to shoot the .44 Special I load 3.5gr. Bullseye under the 200gr. RNFP for a nice mild load, good for indoor gallery shooting too.

I use Power Pistol in my 44 Special loads. With a 240 grain bulet somewhere around 8.0 grains would transfer to 950 FPS in a 4" barrel.

you say your bullets are .430.

What size are your chamber throats?

I hate the stuff but Trailboss can make some light loads. It won't meter well for me. You may have better results. I would rather second the HP-38/Win 231 actually.

7g W231 in a magnum case.

I tried light loads with swaged bullets in my 4" 29-2 and gave up very
quickly. A favorite load is 6.2 grs Bullseye with a 245-250 gr cast bullet
in magnum brass for 830 fps. For a bit more power 8.2 grs W231 with
same bullet gives about 980 fps.

Trail Boss works well for me. This what its made for.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

I don't dislike Unique, but was wondering if any other powders would give superior performance, meter better, and burn cleaner. I'm just about out of Unique, which I use a lot of for 45colt and 45autorim. Since I'll need to restock, I though getting some input from forum members might help me make a more informed choice.

Great info so far, but I have a question or two.

Question #1: With Trail Boss, I read somewhere that you can get throat errosion. I don't recall where I read this, but it was on this or another forum. Is this true, and how quickly does this occur?

Question #2a and 2b: These are more general. There is a lot of mention of W231, Bullseye, and some mention of Universal Clays and Red Dot. What factors go into making a particular powder your favorite, and how many types of powder have you tried in your quest to find the right powder for a particular gun/bullet pairing?

As I said, I have quite a bit of experience with Unique, but for me it seems a bit dirty, at least in 45colt. I also dislike huge fireballs at the end of my gun when I shoot. This isn't a characteristic of Unique, but it does mean I'm looking for a powder type and amount that will give me a fairly clean burn, will push a 240-255gr lead bullet to somewhere between 900 and 1000 fps, not shoot a fireball out behind the bullet, and meter well thru a RCBS power dispenser. I could buy a canister of each powder, and experiment (which would be great fun, but very costly), or see if others have have ironed out the details already.

I was also wondering if anyone has an exhaustive powder burn-rate chart, or info that would help demystify choosing powders for varying barrel lengths. All of the reloading manuals I own simply give low and high charges in several powder types without any explanation of the characteristics of each powder, and what makes it suitable for that particular use. Any other info must be infered.

Thanks

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Hastings

I've been using Bullseye for light 44 mag loads with satisfactory results.

Ask and ye shall be given:

POWDER BURN RATE CHART

In mid-range powders, I am using more Universal than Unique these days.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

According to my records, 8.0 gr of Hodgdon's Universal Clays registered 1015 fps out of my S&W M629 with its 4" barrel (Action Bullet 240gr LSWC, Starline brass, CCI standard LP primer, 1.590" COL, with a firm roll crimp). My notes indicate I was to try 7.5gr for about 950 fps, but this as never tested. I know that, for me, Universal Clays measured much more consistently than did Unique, and burned cleaner as well.

All this happened back in the summer of 2008 when I still owned a .44 Magnum revolver...

As far as how many powders I've tried? Well... I confess to being somewhat of a powder slut... I'm willing to try a pound of just about any powder once...

IMHO, VihtaVuori's N340 is possibly the best medium burner I've ever tried, but it is relatively expensive. Still, I've got that new unopened canister of True Blue calling to me from my powder shelf...

Here is a updated version with some of the newer powders.

Burn Rate

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Still Running Against the Wind

Most manuals will have their tested results in bold or indicated which are the most accurate load they tested so generally that is a good place to start.

You can probably get by with 3 powders.

Fast, medium and slow. Between brands each brand has a powder similar to those of another brand.

I have several different powders but usually buy Hodgdons powder as their online website is the best (IMO) and if you call them they are folks who actually want to help you.

If I could only have one powder it would be HP38/Win 231
It will load anything I shoot. Is it the best at everything? No. There are better Full house Magnum powders but how often do I want to beat myself and gun up?. So for Magnums you have H110/Win 296 or say 2400, a fast powder, Bullseye has been used forever.

Here is a updated Burn rate with some of the newer powders.

Burn Rate

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Still Running Against the Wind

Thanks for this great info. This is exactly what I was looking for. The burn rate info is quite helpful, and it sounds like I should go get some Universal Clays, W231, and maybe a canister of Trail Boss to boot. I'm actually tempted to go the powder slut route, and get one of each mentioned here just for the pleasure of going thru the testing process.

Thanks again. The info is greatly appreciated.

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Hastings

I use Unique for the application you describe. I've found that it "cleans up" under higher pressures (probably not as much as some other powders), so you might experiment with charges, crimps, and bullets to see if you get satisfactory performace with a particular combination. I shot a local IDPA match this past weekend using the Skeeter Skelton load of 7.5 grains of Unique under a 245 cast SWC (velocity less than what you're looking for) with my 4" 629 from an IWB holster. As the only revolver shooter in the match, I wasn't worried about using the most competitive equipment but wanted a test bed to see how this combination performed for me under match conditions. I didn't clean the chambers at all between stages, and had no problems with unburnt powder impacting reloads. Accuracy was good, and no problem seeing the target through the smoke (very little) on double taps.

One thing I like about the Hercules/Alliant powders like Bullseye and Unique is that they have been around a LONG time resulting in a wealth of published recipes and experiences. Some of the newer powders may have advantages for particular applications, but some may also have quirks like inverse temperature sensitivity or pressures may spike unexpectedly in some loads that come to light as people work with them more, so I am always cautious when treading new ground.

Try 7.1 grains of W321 for a lite load and 8.2 of the same for a med. load. I shoot Bear Creek 240 gr. SWC Lead moly and have no leading problems in all three of my 44 mags. Both arevery comfortable on the wrist and good on target

re: "Question #1: With Trail Boss, I read somewhere that you can get throat errosion. I don't recall where I read this, but it was on this or another forum. Is this true, and how quickly does this occur?"

I've migrated to using Trail Boss exclusively in Cowboy Action 45LC loads, since the introduction of the powder in my area 4 or 5 years ago.

I've never had erosion in any of the firearms so loaded. I've used one pair of pistols for going on 4 years, and the same Uberti 73 in all that time. Each match is about 120 rounds, often twice a month, with extra for practice...so quick estimate is going on 10,000 rounds/3 guns = 3000 rounds no erosion noted.

YMMV
re: "variation of load with Trail Boss"
I have purposefully tested in .1 grain load between the absolute minimum and maximum listed on the Hodgdon loading site. I have settled on a mid-range load for 200gr cast .451 lead, and at cowboy target distances, have been unable to demonstrate any significant change in POI relating to variances in powder charges thrown by Dillon 650 set up.

I've loaded 38 special thru 45 LC with Trail Boss, and at the ranges I shoot (out to 50 yards), simply am not a good enough marksman to demonstrate any significant loss of accuracy due to the (perhaps) .1g variance in my own loads.

POI/POA does change with enough change in the powder charge, but usually I'm finding .2~.3g is required to make a move of the group.

If I were interested in target bullseye accuracy, I'd have to shoot considerably better than my geezer eyes/geezer wobbly hold can manage to produce in recent decades.

So for my own use, while Trail Boss charge may vary a bit over 100 rounds, that isn't as much as my own variation on any given 100 rounds down range.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

The only "problem" with Trail Boss is it is not very economical to use. Even though the container is the same size it is only 9 oz, not 16 oz.

It is such a lightweight powder if you breath to hard it will all float away Smells different too.

Main advantage is you can not overcharge a case and really do not even have to measure or weigh it. Just fill the case to just below where the bullet seats and that's the max charge.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf


http://www.imrpowder.com/data/handgu...ss-feb2005.php

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Still Running Against the Wind

Look into PB. This is an often overlooked, ancient, powder.
It burns very cleanly and like many quick/medium powders was
originally intended for shotguns.

My target load for .44's (both special and magnum brass) is
4.5 grains of PB with filler to hold the powder at the bottom
of the case.

It is very accurate with any 240-250 grain SWC I have tried.
It is a minimal load with MV in the 600-700 fps range. I have
never failed to chuck a pill down range with this one and have
done some one hole groups at 25 feet.

The only residue is that left by whatever filler you use. I like
Grex shotgun buffer but have also used old polishing media
like corncob and walnut. It all works Burned walnut shells
smell a little like the 70's if ya know what I am talking about.

You can use more PB to 5 or more grains if you want more velocity. I
arrived at this load after a program to load down till things didn't
work any more. Luckily I quit before I lodged a bullet in the bore.

I don't see many folks using this powder anymore but it is still
made and I like it better than Unique for target loads. For Elmer
and Skeeter's loads, yeah, Unique is fine. It burns better at
the 1000 fps level.

I use PB in shotgun loads too. Specifically 7/8 oz. 12ga skeet
loads. Almost no clean up.

Reminds me I need to get more before it goes away like the W680
I used in .445 supermag.

Ive been using 9 gns of Universal Clays in Magnum Brass with excellent results. I also use gas checks, no leading and they just seem to shoot more accurate for me than plain base.

I have some W231, and some Universal Clays ordered (they don't stock either at my local gun shop ??). I'm going to give them each a try in the 44, and try some Trail Boss in my 45colt Vaquero.

I've only used gas-checks a few times. What are people's opinions on them. If I keep the velocity under 1000 fps with a bullet in with a brinell hardness of around 18, is a gas check necessary? Will the gas check make up for having slightly undersized throats? How does the gas check behave if it transitions from an undersized throat to a slightly wider barrel? I don't think my 44 has throat issues, but I've always wondered how well a gas check performed given all of the variables in dia, pressure, velocity, and rifling.

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Hastings

Gas checks are primarily useful for high speed lead loads.

Secondarily, they are useful for undersized bullets and/or chamber/throats issues.

Under 1500fps you should not need them if bullets are correctly sized and the chamber/throats areas are correct.

I use straight wheel weights, air cooled, and they have a low hardness of somewhere @ 12, but I shoot them in rifles and handguns, but I must size them correctly to avoid leading.

You can certainly use ajut qabout anything from BE to 2400 to get 950fps, just depends on what you want to do. I am quite happy w/ Unique w/ any lead bullet, it just works. If you want better metering Unique, then try Universal, alsthough not as accurate w/ lead bullets, or WSF. All will burn pretty clean @ 950fps.
As to leading, check your cyl throats. If they are small, you are sizing the bullet down as it passes thru to the bbl & letting gas escape, causing early leading. If the bbl slugs 0.429", you want a bullet 0.430" or 0.001" larger than the throats. If the throats are small, habe them polished out to groove dia of the bbl for best results. For 1000fps, you could even shoot pure lead properly sized & lubed.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO