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Old 04-24-2011, 03:07 AM
RDub RDub is offline
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Default 357 Mag 125gr Factory Duplication

I needed to edit the pics once again, and while doing so, I wanted to include some additional information. Since originally posting this, I've discovered that one can easily duplicate, or exceed somewhat, the factory velocities recorded here using Alliant's new powder 300-MP. With the listed charge of 22.3grs from Alliant's website, I was able to get 1428 fps out of a 4" 686 with a 125gr bullet.

Now a word of caution. I was able to get 22.3grs into a Winchester case with just enough room to seat a 125gr bullet. However, when attempting this with a Remington case, I was only able to get 21.5grs in the case and still had enough room to seat the bullet. I have not tried this load in any other brand of cases.
Here is a target;



Notice I used a CCI500 primer, recommended by Alliant, and got factory quality standard deviation.



Hello again..

While I’m waiting on warmer weather for the rest of the .38 Special trial, I’d thought I would pick on some .357 Mag 125gr factory load duplication and see what happens. It’s still on the cool side here, 40s and 50s, so I was wondering what I would have to do to duplicate the factory velocity and, if I would run into the same temperature sensitivity as I did with the .38’s.

38 Spcl Factory Dup. phase 2

I started out wanting to duplicate the Rem-UMC 125gr JSP load, so I chose the Sierra 125gr JSP for load testing.



Included in the trial is some Speer 125gr Gold Dots.
The Gold Dots actually shoot very well out of my 4” 686, but the Rem’s are faster.

First thing is to see what is inside these loads.

The Remington UMC 125gr JSP;



Powder charge is 19.5grs of a ball powder;



The Speer GD load;



has a charge of ball powder weighing 20.8grs.



Both Speer and Rem bullets weighed 125grs. No surprise there..

Well, here’s what I came up with..



Now bear in mind, a lot of this was shooting low today.

Target 1 and 2 are the factory loads. As you can see, the GD load groups nicely, but the RemUMC load, not so well..
However both velocities are well into the 1300’s even on a cool day.

20.8 grs of something = 1339 fps and
19.5 grs of something = 1383 fps

Also you can see the velocities of these loads, many of which are right out of the books as max, lag a little behind the factory loads.
None of the loads shot today showed any kind of pressure signs. The cases fell out of the chambers and all the primers looked normal.

The only technical problem I ran into was when my luck ran out and the rain started, the skyscreens must have gotten wet as I got some erroneous readings on the chrono. This occurred when I was shooting the last group loaded with 2400, target 19. The only readings that made sense were two around 1260 fps.

Last week I shot a group with a Magtech 125gr JHP ahead of 16.6 grs 2400 in a little cooler temp, which shot very nicely;
As a side note, I was able to safely work up to 17.5 grs of 2400, but I noticed that velocity stopped increasing after 16.6grs. in the 4" 686. So there was not point in using any more than that in the 4" barrel.



So again, it will be interesting to re-shoot this in warmer weather.

Next time out I shot some additional groups and kicking things up a little bit;



Got a nice increase in velocity with N-110. A decrease with Blue Dot. And notice the velocity with 17.5grs of 2400 is the same as 16.6grs.

Here is Part 2;

357 Mag 125gr Factory Duplication Rd2

Last edited by RDub; 04-16-2018 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 04-24-2011, 06:22 AM
snowman snowman is offline
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Hmm. 17 and 18 grains of N-110; are you using magnum or regular primers? My data shows 16.4 as the maximum load, and I load mine to 16gr. even(but, with magnum primers). I'll have to chrono mine and see what it does(I use a 4" 686 also).

Thank you for posting this information.

Andy

Last edited by snowman; 04-24-2011 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:35 AM
RDub RDub is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman View Post
Hmm. 17 and 18 grains of N-110; are you using magnum or regular primers? My data shows 16.4 as the maximum load, and I load mine to 16gr. even(but, with magnum primers). I'll have to chrono mine and see what it does(I use a 4" 686 also).

Thank you for posting this information.

Andy
Heya
CCI 500
Primers are listed on the target. V-V recommends standard primers with N-110 so that's what I tried.
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:39 AM
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Yep; my eyes failed me again -I see it now.

I talked with the fellows at Sierra, who used magnum primers with their testing of N-110. That's what they recommended to me. I guess we trust the pros, whichever ones we talk with, eh?

Andy

Last edited by snowman; 04-24-2011 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:16 PM
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Well judging by the extreme spreads of the N-110 loads, it would appear that the powder is burning well. The ES was better than most other loads.
Having never used this powder until now, I wasn't real sure what to believe as far as max charge.. V-V on-line handgun data site,

Vihtavuori-Lapua.com

lists 18.4 grs of N-110 with a 125gr bullet, yet other manuals list something much less.. Even when using stardard primers as well.. Hmm.

But again, in warmer weather all this 'could' change drastically..

Last edited by RDub; 04-24-2011 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:49 PM
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Bump for some new information
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:09 PM
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Have you tried any H110/296 powder? It does well with max loads and should put you right where you want to be easily. I've seen in the past with it and with shooting up 3 lbs of 300MP is that it will do what 300MP will do with a little less powder charge. Hodgdon's load data shows 21.0 - 22.0 grains for H110 or 296 with Hornady 125 XTP bullets and mag primers.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:10 AM
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Yes. The first target, circle #4 shows 22.0grs 296 averaging 1199 fps. I've never been able to get much more than that out of a 4" barrel with this bullet weight and H-110 or 296, even in warmer weather. And yes magnum primers are required with these powders. 300-MP delivers 1400 fps consistently.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:19 AM
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I don't have much to say other than I appreciate the info! I hadn't even heard of 300-MP before this thread, so I've got some research to do.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:34 AM
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I never ran 296 and 300MP through a chrono with a 4" barrel that I remember, mostly 5" and 6 1/2" barrels and through a rifle. And I had some less than stellar experiences with 300MP when I first tried it with my old 5" 27-2; ran dirty as heck and didn't seem overly energetic either, but I didn't have a chrono then and that old 27 was needing a tuneup bad with some endshake and a good bit of throat erosion. I might have to give it another chance in revolvers. It ran real well in 44 Mag out of my Desert Eagle.

On your 296 loads, are you using a very heavy crimp? I've found that helps with 296 too.

Thanks for posting up your results. I don't shoot much in 125 grain any more; I shoot 140 and higher. But you've given me some data to look at here that makes me reassess using 300MP.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:37 AM
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Over the years I have shot a lot of 125gr JHP bullets out of 6" S&W revolvers.

In my newer 686 6" that I did a lot of testing in, I did well with the Winchester and Hornady bullets over all.
My best light 81% of maximum target loads were with W231 and CFE pistol powder that did around 1220fps.

SR4756 and 2400 at 1448 and 1502fps did best in the accuracy department at the full load area.
I don't have any slow ball powders.
The new BE86 shot well with the XTP JHP but the max loading only reached 1307fps, in my revolver
which fell a little short of my Unique powder tests, at 1355fps.

Maximum loads are nice now and then but I sure enjoy the accuracy
at the range or chasing jack rabbits with the lighter load at just 1200fps +/-
for a longer session of shooting.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:40 PM
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Hello muddocktor
Yes the full power .357 loads get a heavy crimp.. as heavy as I would want to put on it.
Over the years I have seen a fairly wide variation in performance levels and likes and dis-likes with individual .357 revolvers.. So much so that I would never doubt for a minute how a particular gun performs with a particular load, and, I appreciate hearing about how other guns perform with different loads. Thanks.

Hey Nevada Ed nice hearing from you.
You are absolutely right about shooting max loads. When I go out shooting a revolver I usually reach for a mid-range cast or jacketed load. So much more enjoyable. And thanks for your comments.
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