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Old 04-29-2011, 12:12 AM
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Default Trimming 45 ACP brass

Normally for years I just bought cheap 45 ACP ammo to shoot for fun. However that ammo has gotten ridiculously priced. So I decided to start casting and reloading my own 45 ACP.

I have heard a lot of different things about trimming 45 ACP. So I am just interested in any comments anyone might have about trimming or crimping 45 ACP brass. Thanks, Tom.
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:19 AM
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I never trim any handgun brass.
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:25 AM
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If you don't trim the brass then how do you put a consistent crimp on cases that are different lengths?? Adjust the die on every load?? Tom.
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:14 AM
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45acp brass just doesn't stretch much if at all. I have some cases that have been loaded well over 15X, they are all within a couple 2/1000 of each other, doesnt' affect taper crimp at all. I have never trimm4ed a service pistol case, never. I do trim magnum rev cases, they do stretch quite a bit w/ full power loads & the roll crimp is less tolerant of longer cases.
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:29 AM
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No need to trim .45 acp, usually it gets shorter, not longer. Once bought a Lee trimmer and the set up for the .45, tried to trim some and almost all of them where shorter than the set trim insert. Figured out it was a waste of time and haven't trimmed any in the last 25 years.
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:34 AM
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I understand that you need to do a taper crimp. I bought a Redding Taper crimp die.

I measured some brass that I sized and cleaned. Most of it measures .890. Almost 75% of it has that measurement. But the rest measures basically two other lengths. The one length is .893, and the other length is .885. So there is .08" difference between the two. I doubt if the actual crimp will be .008 long?? So the shorter cases would not receive any crimp what so ever if I set it up for the .893's?? And if I set the crimp die up for the .890 then I am assuming(have not done it yet) if it was set for .890 that it would crush the .893's?? But I do not know that for sure. I will have to try it first.

I am sure a taper crimp will not be as critical as a roll crimp. But there is a big difference between .893 and .885??

I believe actual recommended trim lentgth is .889 ?????? And max length is .899 ??????


Probably best if I just get in there and crimp a few and find out for myself. I just thought I would ask the question. However I have to get down to the garage and get some 230 grain round nosed bullets cast first!! Tom.


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Old 04-29-2011, 07:30 AM
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I have been reloading 45acp for 40 years and haven't trimmed one yet. As someone else stated, I bought a trimmer, but none of the cases were long enough to cut back.
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Old 04-29-2011, 09:51 AM
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I would not base the variance on one case that was .885. Who knows where or how that occurred. I am assuming it was a once or more fired case. The others that are .003 ( 3 thousands) difference is so tiny it makes no difference especially on a taper and not even on a roll crimp.Open your calipers to .003 it's not even visible, maybe a thin sheet of paper.

As mentioned, I reload every handgun caliber and never trimmed a case except once (the only new brass I bought) some 45 Colt. After sizing them I spent a lot of time trimming basically nothing.

This is about case max spec length, not trim to length as listed in manuals. I honestly do not know why they do that?? So if someone knows, please chime in.
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Old 04-29-2011, 09:55 AM
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TRIMMING .45 BRASS IS A WASTE OF TIME. JP
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:01 AM
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Trimming 45ACP brass?
I have been reloading for over 50 years.
...got my first 45 ACP in 1967 and HAVE NEVER TRIMMED
45 acp brass.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:30 AM
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In 25+ yrs. of reloading .45 acp I have never found the need to trim them. I also do not trim 9mm or any "Special" cases(.38, .44 etc.) either.

I am a reloading FREAK when it comes to rifle calibers and own several trimmers of different manufactures. Believe me if I thought for a moment that my .45ACP would benefit from trimming I would be doing it, I don't.

I do applaud your asking though, Reloading is not something to take lightly. Serious injury can and does result from lack of understanding or knowledge. If you wonder if something should be done or done differently it is best to ask, No question regarding reloading is dumb, Not asking is.
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:15 PM
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I've loaded the .45 ACP for about 40 years. Never had a case grow long enough to need trimming. Some practice cases have had well over 20 ejector "dings" on them before I traded them away.

In a semi-auto, your taper crimp die will be perfection compared to a roll crimp die. For lead bullets, I taper crimp to .469" +/- .0005. Function is 100% in stock spec chambers as well as tight custom match ones.

There is something to be said for roll crimping in hot-loaded.45 ACP's to be fired in revolvers. I do not find it necessary though for standard velocity; taper crimp works fine there.

In certain straight wall case handguns, it is beneficial to trim cases. I'll trim for .38 HBWC 148 gr seated flush with the case mouth. Ditto for .357 mag cases used with jacketed bullets in full magnum loadings.
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:27 PM
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straight wall handgun case=no trimming here
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:17 PM
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You guys make me feel like an idiot. I have been reloading for over 30 years. And trimming has always been a part of the reloading process for me.

I guess I will just jump in and reload the cases I have ready to load. I just have a hard time believing that my crimp will not be different on cases that are as much as .008 different in length??

Heck I have never allowed that much difference in case length in cartridges that I do not even crimp!! Oh well. Tom.
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
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. . .

I guess I will just jump in and reload the cases I have ready to load. I just have a hard time believing that my crimp will not be different on cases that are as much as .008 different in length??

. . .
Taper crimp is much more forgiving to case overall length vs. a roll crimp.
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:46 PM
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nothing the matter with the question. Trimmed a small batch of 45 acp brass once, even leveled out the primer pockets. It only made a difference in a match pistol, and not worth the effort.

Some 45 acp cases can be significantly shorter than others (commercial Rem as example), at least last time i checked. I sort all my remingtons out of range pickups, and load them seperate. A Lee factory crimp die can be useful for ensuring all the mixed lenght cases get crimped, as it doesn't buckle the longer cases as easily as a standard taper crimp die.

45 acp cases do get shorter over time, from the firing/resizing process. Eventually there may be a detectable "buldge" below where the sizing die resizes.
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Old 04-29-2011, 04:35 PM
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I just load my 45 ACP's until either the primers seat too loose or they crack. Of the couple of 5 gallon buckets of 45 brass that I have one has never been trimmed. They are fired in 1911's, S&W 3rd Gens and a 625 with moon clips. Never sort them either. The only cases I trim are bottle neck rifle brass and .30 Carbine.
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Old 05-01-2011, 03:52 PM
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I shoot a revolver and use roll crimps. I trim 45 ACP cases when I acquire them. I don't trim them after that.
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:00 PM
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Could this be an issue in a .45 ACP revolver when you aren't using moon clips? Wouldn't they have to be near perfect for length since they seat on a rim in the cylinder and the firing pin can only move so far?
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Old 05-01-2011, 06:42 PM
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I try to produce the best ammo that I can, therefore, I trim every caliber including 45 ACP. I believe that it does make a difference in accuracy and consistency.

Always heard that it's not necessary, but I still carry it on....I also sort all of my cases and only load a specific brand, sell or give away any others.

My 2¢ anyway.
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Old 05-01-2011, 06:58 PM
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"Could this be an issue in a .45 ACP revolver when you aren't using moon clips? Wouldn't they have to be near perfect for length since they seat on a rim in the cylinder and the firing pin can only move so far?"

Generally not. In a S&W 1917, for example, the case mouth seats on a chamber front ledge. There is no case rim; you don't need one. And you don't need half moon clips. I never use them in mine. And I never trim the cases. There is plenty of tolerance in the design, and the firing pin extends far enough to dent primers deeply and reliably.

I use all these untrimmed .45 reloads in the S&W 1917, five or six 1911 variants, a 1928 Thompson, and a bunch of others. All rounds work in everything, if recoil impulse is correct for the autos/semiautos.

In the Colt 1917, you can't do this. The chambers are bored all the way through, and you must use moon clips, or rounds will drop all the way into the chamber, beyond the reach of the firing pin.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:36 AM
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Case length variance can cause crimp differences when your roll crimp, and that can affect accuracy. When you use a taper crimp variance will not be noticeable in the accuracy unless there is considerable difference.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:12 PM
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The best I could offer would be to spend the time chamfering the mouth inside and out. It improves the reloading aspects. Otherwise, shoot 'em up! It's a great round.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:05 PM
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To each there own, but I trim, chamfer and deburr all my new and new-to-me brass before reloading it the first time.
For .45acp, I use a Lee length gauge that has been ground down to produce a 0.895" case length.
After that one time, it is straight from the tumbler to the press.

That may be overkill to some, but not for me since I wash my fired brass before I tumble it.
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:37 PM
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My 2 cents worth they all seem to short to trim. But in my foolish youth I made a batch all the same length, but when they were shoot couldn't tell a nickles worth of difference so never did that again.
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:46 AM
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HEAD0001,
A light taper crimp when done properly doesn't actually crimp so much as it removes the flare from the expander die step and just snugs the brass up to the bullet. So the case length is pretty much irrelevant. No need to trim, but if you are so inclined then there's no harm in it either. I have chamfered and de-burred all the brass I have dedicated to my 625, but don't bother with that for my autos as most of that is range brass anyway. Doesn't seem to matter at all in over 20 years doing it that way.

If I were loading heavy rounds for the 625, probably in AR, with bullets that have a definite cannelure, then I would go the whole route of trimming, etc., because I'd be using a roll crimp.
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:52 AM
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Trim .45 ACP brass. Nope. Never needed it. Use a taper crimp. That eliminated brass length as a concern. Works with lead or jacketed bullets. This has worked for me for many thousands of rounds of handloaded ammunition. HTH. Sincerely. bruce.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
To each there own, but I trim, chamfer and deburr all my new and new-to-me brass before reloading it the first time.
For .45acp, I use a Lee length gauge that has been ground down to produce a 0.895" case length.
After that one time, it is straight from the tumbler to the press.

That may be overkill to some, but not for me since I wash my fired brass before I tumble it.
Yes, new as in in brand new brass should be sized and trimmed, chamfer etc. Never know what length they might be. Only handgun brass I purchased new was 45 Colt and the Lee trimmer did cut a few of them so I know they are all the same.

I have washed a lot of brass before tumbling. I have a 5 gal bucket to put my vinegar, salt and water in and a 2 ft square frame of 2 x4's with hardware cloth to drain them on the driveway. They can be loaded when dry, but a quick tumble shines them up. Media last longer that way also.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:35 PM
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There is a minum and a maximum length. Certain bullets, especially cast have differing trim lengths for brass so when you crimp in the canlure your C.O.A.L is correct. When you tapered, the more goes in the die the more taper there will be, so .888 will have less taper than .895 length. Most importantly this cartridge head spaces on the case mouth so don't roll crimp if semi auto. This head spacing off the mouth on untrimmed differening lengths will hold the bullet at different distances from the throat of the barrel I think, might check that on me and make sure. I have been wrong before. But for sure if head spacing is inconsistant, you groups will be. This distance the bullet travels to barrel is called bullet jump which is a whole nother subject. Varing bullet jump will greatly effect accuracy and REALLY important Pressure (most critical when bullet leaves brass and hits throat of barrel). So the pressure in you load book will be off. If the lengths are different you will have varing pressures, bullet grip (friction how tight brass holds bullet), and bullet jump. These phrases can be researched for yourself. I've proved to my self how far is too far in the process by shooting on a slead to test loads. I have friends who don't even clean their brass, I actually enjoy reloading and do it all from casting to neck turning. As long as your safe it depends on what your after. I shoot with friends who are doing just as the others on your post, and their happy. I thought it would be good to get the otherside of the coin.
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:58 PM
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I may have missed seeing it mentioned, but most .45 ACP is headspaced by the extractor holding the cartridge against the slide. Since they don't actually headspace off the case mouth as designed, trimming to the same length makes no difference.
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:49 PM
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I've been reloading for 30 years and I've never needed to trim a pistol case,just bottle neck rifle brass.
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:02 PM
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The crimp is NOT what holds the bullet in the case. When the case is resized, the entire length of the case is made smaller, creating a "press fit" when the bullet is inserted. You should only flare the case enough to get the bullet started without shaving lead. Case wall tension is what holds the bullet, the crimp die should only remove the flare.

MichiganScott, you have bad information.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
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I may have missed seeing it mentioned, but most .45 ACP is headspaced by the extractor holding the cartridge against the slide.
I've seen this comment launch multiple opp-topic pages of debate.

On topic: It may not be necessary, and everything in my OCD head tells me it's not necessary, but I still trim my pistol brass.

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Old 07-16-2012, 10:53 PM
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Been re-loading (38 special, .357 magnum, 45 acp, & 45 Colt) for 35 years and I don't even own a trimmer.

I also load .38-55 and .45-70 rifle calibers and have never trimmed them either. I don't load to max and I have never had a jam, FTF, or any problems.

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Old 07-16-2012, 11:09 PM
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Well from all the responses, it sounds like you don't have to trim but it won't kill you if you do.

I always trim my handgun brass before I load it for the first time to get them to the same length, it sure helps getting that crimp consistant and not bulging cases. I don't think it hurts the accuracy either. It sure is a pain in the neck though.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:03 AM
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My feeding is that if you shoot high powered rifle cartridges often enough they will eventually require some trimming.

I honestly do not know any re-loaders that trim handgun cartridges though.
Probably because most re-loader's do not load to HOT spec's. and use them for Target Practice and informal plinking or competition where hot loads would be a disadvantage.

I suppose if you are bored and want to add another step to the process, go ahead and trim although IMHO you could spend the time doing more enjoyable things.

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Old 07-17-2012, 04:46 AM
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I have never trimmed .45 Auto brass or any handgun brass for that matter. It's just not necessary and a total waste of time IMO.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:51 AM
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45 ACP brass will tend to shrink with multiple firings.
In a 1911, this does not seem to matter as most, if not all, 1911's will headspace with the extractor.
I did have a Sig P 220 that would not headspace with the extractor and would fail to fire short brass- a PITA
I taper crimp all my 45 rounds, as a roll crimp, even on 45AR brass, makes some rounds too large to chamber in my tight 625JM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:03 AM
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I have never trimmed any handgun brass. At one time I did select single manufacturers headstamp brass for bullseye pistol matches.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:04 AM
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When you trim your new brass do you measure them all first and trim to the shortest length? Probably not.
You just trim so that none are OVER a certain length.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:30 AM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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Originally Posted by dickttx View Post
When you trim your new brass do you measure them all first and trim to the shortest length? Probably not.
You just trim so that none are OVER a certain length.
Actually, I measure 5-10% out of each new batch and set the case trimmer to the shortest length. You still get shorter cases, but they aren't short enough to matter. After that, they never get trimmed.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:58 AM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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I have never bothered to trim .45 ACP cases, though I do trim revolver cases that get a roll crimp. I try to get those within 0.002" to keep the roll crimp reasonably uniform.

I shoot .45 ACPs in both revolvers and pistols. I have three guns that are particularly ammunition sensitive and I sort cases for them. One is a target 1911 that should have and does have an exceptionally tight chamber. Then there is an ordinary M&P45, which has a tight chamber and short throat, and finally I have an old 1955 Target that has one or two pretty tight chambers. I sort cases for these guns, both brand and length - Remington brass, and have found 0.885" is about the magic number. I allow a couple thousandths either way and set my taper crimp die on cases that are in the middle of the range.

These loaded rounds drop into my Wilson gauge and they work fine in any .45 ACP, no matter what gun. If 0.898" is the nominal length for .45 ACP cases, all I can say is that I see very few of them.

For my other .45s, they don't seem to shoot notably better with ammunition made using selected cases, so they get a variety of almost anything I have lying around. Even if these rounds do not fit in the Wilson gauge, I have never had a problem with them in various Colts, other S&Ws, and Kimbers.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:28 PM
iouri iouri is offline
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Cool, search works fine on this forum . I've decided to expand my reloading to 45 ACP and stumbled upon "trim to length 0.888" " in my Lyman manual. Quick search revealed this thread. Thanks guys for answering my question whether I need to trim it or not
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:58 AM
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"trim to length 0.888" " isn't meant as trim all cases to that length, but IF trimming is required, trim to .888".

The only straight-wall cases I ever trimmed were 9mm Lugers (9x19), but then I was trimming them to 9x18 for use in my 9mm Mak.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISOM View Post
Trimming 45ACP brass?
I have been reloading for over 50 years.
...got my first 45 ACP in 1967 and HAVE NEVER TRIMMED
45 acp brass.
I started reloading in the very early 70's and have not trimmed any straight pistol brass yet. FWIW I was shooting over 50,000 rds a year when I first started shooting CAS in 1988.

My first reloaded pistol rounds were 44 Mag.

I still don't trim pistol brass and I have slowed down to around 10,000 rds a year.
Rifle brass is another story. they get trimmed.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:39 PM
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You guys make me feel like an idiot. I have been reloading for over 30 years. And trimming has always been a part of the reloading process for me.

I guess I will just jump in and reload the cases I have ready to load. I just have a hard time believing that my crimp will not be different on cases that are as much as .008 different in length??

Heck I have never allowed that much difference in case length in cartridges that I do not even crimp!! Oh well. Tom.
You realize that is a thick sheet of paper? Not much diff at all really.
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1911, 45acp, carbine, colt, commercial, crimp, ejector, model 625, primer, sig arms, thompson

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