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  #1  
Old 05-03-2011, 09:47 PM
RDub RDub is offline
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Default .38 Special Factory Duplication phase 3

Continuing with the endeavor to duplicate .38 Special 158gr Lead RN factory ammunition,..as promised, I re-shot the .38 Special trials last Saturday.
It was a blistering 65°F, or so, in the Southern Oregon foothills.



The birds were chirping, the bugs were flyin.. So it was time.
Everything about this trial, including components lots, chono distance, gun, and where I shoot, is exactly the same as last time… ( if you need to catch up, check the link)

38 Spcl Factory Dup. phase 2

only thing different is the weather.
Here is what I came up with;



As anticipated, I had some velocity gains, and some stayed the same.. but what was really weird, some actually lost ground.
The groups tightened up as well as the extreme spreads, for the most part in the warmer weather.

The only load that was close to the Rem factory load was the 4.7grs N-320 load.

The Winchester and Remington factory loads gained a little bit, while the Fed American Eagle stayed the same.

The big gainer was Universal with an increase of 68 fps over last time... I wonder what will happen if I shoot this load in 85°F weather.., followed by Power Pistol with 46 fps gain. Titegroup had a 43 fps increase. SR 7625 had a 34 fps increase.

The velocity losses were a little puzzling..

AA #5.........-77
ZIP .........-30
Red Dot ......-27

The rest of the results are as follows;

Remington factory load .......+13.....Slight gain
Winchester factory load .......+32.....Gain
Fed American Eagle ............ -2 .......Virtually no change

Bullseye .....+10 ..... Slight gain
700-X ........ -7 .....Virtually no change
AA #2 ........ +7 ......Virtually no change
231 ...........+6 ......Virtually no change
HP-38...........+1.......Virtually no change
Unique........ -2 .......Virtually no change
N-320...........+11......Slight gain
Herco ........... -9 ......Virtually no change
SR 4756 ....... -7...... Virtually no change

Giving thought to the idea that 3.5grs of Bullseye behind a 158gr lead RN is the long established factory duplication load, depending on what bullet you were working with and what factory load you were duplicating, could be possible and accurate.

The Remington load is a tough nut to crack staying within published max load data, and using this Speer lead RN bullet.

So the next step will be to see just what it will take to get this Speer bullet to achieve 770fps with the powders tried. Yes, they will be over the listed ‘max’ but now I’m curious. Then again, maybe in 85° weather I’ll get some very different results… We’ll see. Got wait until July or so though..

Maybe later, if I get real ambitious, I’ll try doing this again with another bullet.

Hard at it…





After I posted this I went wild and crazy and loaded some 'hotter' loads just to take a stab at what it would take to get to 770fps.. Bear in mind these loads were shot in a magnum revolver and are NOT standard 38 Special loads. These are +P or hotter loads are NOT to be shot in standard 38 Special chambers. Hopefully that covers the CYA stuff..
This is solely for the entertainment of our viewing audience...


Last edited by RDub; 04-13-2018 at 08:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-04-2011, 12:14 AM
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RDub....I appreciate your efforts and postings.

I recall shooting factory 158 LRN Remmy's and I recently shot 3.5 of Bullseye behind a 158 SWC and the hand load was definitely well softer than the factory Rem.

I do like the N320 load and I will try that one. since my purpose if for competition and I like nice holes...I will use SWC.

Comparing felt recoil to the factory Rem's....how does the N320 load compare?

BTW...that Federal factory rounds shot really tight!!!!

again, thanks.

Last edited by SW CQB 45; 05-04-2011 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:26 AM
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I have attempted to duplicate the accuracy of the Fedral 158 gr. LRN factory load. I used WST, American Selct, Bullseye, W-231 and Trail Boss. None of the loads duplicated the accuracy of the factory load. The most accurate of my reloads used 3.3 gr. WST or 3.5 gr. American Select.
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:41 PM
gwalchmai gwalchmai is offline
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I'm kinda shocked. Shooting a target with a road behind it seems downright negligent to me.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW CQB 45 View Post
RDub....I appreciate your efforts and postings.

I recall shooting factory 158 LRN Remmy's and I recently shot 3.5 of Bullseye behind a 158 SWC and the hand load was definitely well softer than the factory Rem.

I do like the N320 load and I will try that one. since my purpose if for competition and I like nice holes...I will use SWC.

Comparing felt recoil to the factory Rem's....how does the N320 load compare?

BTW...that Federal factory rounds shot really tight!!!!

again, thanks.
Hey
Felt recoil is just a tad more than the Rem load. Probably because of the heavier powder charge. The Rem load has only 4.0grs as opposed to 4.7grs of N-320.

Yes the Fed load is a nice accurate pleasant load to shoot.

I have a lot of fun doing this kind of thing. I'm glad its helpful in some way.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:16 PM
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I may still have some old circa 1992 .38 federal 158 lead. Hollow points. That was the fbi load....I think they are plus p.

If I can find them....I may send you some for future testing.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
I'm kinda shocked. Shooting a target with a road behind it seems downright negligent to me.
Well, don't be alarmed. Around here we call this an abandoned dead-end skid road. It dead ends just around the corner and it is not used.
This spot is several miles away from any well traveled road and even farther away from any civilization.

There are hundreds if not thousands of such places scattered all over southwestern Oregon and one will find evidence of shooting activity in most of them.

So it's Ok.. Really.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDub View Post
Well, don't be alarmed. Around here we call this an abandoned dead-end skid road. It dead ends just around the corner and it is not used.
This spot is several miles away from any well traveled road and even farther away from any civilization.

There are hundreds if not thousands of such places scattered all over southwestern Oregon and one will find evidence of shooting activity in most of them.

So it's Ok.. Really.
Sounds like "unloaded gun" logic to me. It'd be far too easy to simply reorient your target and be safe. Really. You can't see that road and what's beyond. Why take the unnecessary chance?
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
Sounds like "unloaded gun" logic to me. It'd be far too easy to simply reorient your target and be safe. Really. You can't see that road and what's beyond. Why take the unnecessary chance?
Good Gawd... The Man explained himself... I mean really.... Geeeez.

RDub. Thanks for the concise well conducted report.

Drew
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSQUARED View Post
The most accurate of my reloads used 3.3 gr. WST or 3.5 gr. American Select.
TS,

I recently loaded some test rounds

158LSWC and 3.1 of WST.

According to RDub's test, 158 factory Federal flew at approx 700 FPS....

does your 3.3 or the 3.5 of American Select equal that?

I was given the 3.1 load for pure accuracy and will test next week out of my svc 686 4" using .358" sundance slugs.

I will eventually switch to either Penn slugs or Zero swaged for better slug uniformity.

your three tests need to be stickies so they can be found for future reference.

Last edited by SW CQB 45; 05-04-2011 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW CQB 45 View Post
I may still have some old circa 1992 .38 federal 158 lead. Hollow points. That was the fbi load....I think they are plus p.

If I can find them....I may send you some for future testing.
I think I know which ones you are referring to, and I did chrono some Federal 158gr LSWC Hollow Point +P's back in the mid '90s.
My notes say they averaged 890fps out of a 4" 686 and 800 out of a 2½" 66.
In fact IIRC just about every +P load of that weight I tested chrono'd right around 900fps out of a 4" barrel.

I'd be glad to test something you have.
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:18 AM
gwalchmai gwalchmai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebago Son View Post
Good Gawd... The Man explained himself... I mean really.... Geeeez.
Yes, I saw his explanation. Thanks for contributing...
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
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Yes, I saw his explanation. Thanks for contributing...
You're welcome. Glad to straighten you out. Ask again anytime.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:38 PM
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You're welcome. Glad to straighten you out. Ask again anytime.
No one actually asked you for anything the first time, but if I need anything, and I can't imagine what that might be, I'll let you know.
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Old 05-06-2011, 07:01 PM
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I think the most glaring error in this report is the picture itself. You look just to comfortable and the scenery is awful!

65 degrees. We are dying down here it's summer already. 90 degrees and the same humidity.

Thanks for the reports, and wish I was there with you on the "road"
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Old 05-06-2011, 07:45 PM
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I was just going to read your interesting study, without any comment. However, once again you are putting the Bullseye load over the bullet. It works better if the powder is under the bullet.
Other than that, I appreciate your work.
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:09 PM
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I was just going to read your interesting study, without any comment. However, once again you are putting the Bullseye load over the bullet. It works better if the powder is under the bullet.
Other than that, I appreciate your work.
Lol.. yea I gotta have a word with my editor.. she slipped... again

Last edited by RDub; 05-06-2011 at 08:12 PM.
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