Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading
o

Notices

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:09 AM
Vartarg's Avatar
Vartarg Vartarg is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 192
Likes: 30
Liked 17 Times in 10 Posts
Default Standard Primers in .357 Mag?

I load for several rifles and a couple of handguns.....mostly .45ACP and some .38 Special.

I recently loaded up 50 rds of .357 Mag, and used the Winchester Small Primers I normally would use for the .38. I realize now that I should probably be using Magnum Small Pistol primers in the .357.....

Any comments or experience on this issue?

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:15 AM
sps282's Avatar
sps282 sps282 is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kettering, OH
Posts: 303
Likes: 225
Liked 97 Times in 53 Posts
Default

The use of magnum primers depends on the powder you are using, most loads will do okay with standard small pistol primers, but some of the slow burning powders (HS6, 296, etc.)do better with magnum primers. Most reloading manuals indicate when to use magnum primers.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:57 AM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,836
Likes: 2,665
Liked 3,927 Times in 2,366 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sps282 View Post
The use of magnum primers depends on the powder you are using, most loads will do okay with standard small pistol primers, but some of the slow burning powders (HS6, 296, etc.)do better with magnum primers. Most reloading manuals indicate when to use magnum primers.
Absolutely correct. The fact it is a magnum has no bearing on what primer you use. Slow ball powders work best w/ magnum powders. The only powders I have used that requires a mag primer IMO is H110/W296.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-18-2011, 03:01 PM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
Banned
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hoosier Land!
Posts: 4,379
Likes: 587
Liked 576 Times in 307 Posts
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by sps282 View Post
The use of magnum primers depends on the powder you are using, most loads will do okay with standard small pistol primers, but some of the slow burning powders (HS6, 296, etc.)do better with magnum primers. Most reloading manuals indicate when to use magnum primers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Absolutely correct. The fact it is a magnum has no bearing on what primer you use. Slow ball powders work best w/ magnum powders. The only powders I have used that requires a mag primer IMO is H110/W296.


SPS, welcome to the forum. You and fred are exactly right. Powder dependent. HS-6, a great ball powder, has got to have magnum primers even if you use it in a "special" cartridge.

Powder!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-18-2011, 03:10 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 497
Liked 943 Times in 518 Posts
Default

Standard primers with 2400. Magnum with H110.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-18-2011, 04:01 PM
SKS52 SKS52 is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: China Grove,NC
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5 View Post
Standard primers with 2400. Magnum with H110.
+1 that's the two combination's I use as well.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-18-2011, 04:52 PM
Snapping Twig's Avatar
Snapping Twig Snapping Twig is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Posts: 3,504
Likes: 527
Liked 3,813 Times in 1,243 Posts
Default

FWIW, I read a Skeeter Skelton article many years back wherein he was talking about using non magnum primers for magnum cartridges.

In the article he outlined the more consistent burn and lower pressure when using non magnum primers.

I took his advice and tried it and never looked back, this was over 20 years ago.

I exclusively use W296/H110, so not to throw a wrench in the works, non magnum primers reliably ignite W296/H110 in magnum loads. I haven't had a squib yet.

44mag and 357mag BTW.

Big no-no with W296/H110 is reduced charges and IMO this is what leads to squibs, not the primers.

No unburned powder and very accurate rounds.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-18-2011, 05:06 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 22,065
Likes: 10,777
Liked 15,466 Times in 6,788 Posts
Default

Not very long ago someone posted a chart that showed the difference in PSI between primers. If I recall it was not a whole lot of difference between regular and Mag. Now if that has anything to due with ignition, I don't know.

If you look at Hodgdons data online, they use a Mag primer for everything in a Mag cartridge. I asked them about this and they stated it was just to keep everything consistent. For example they use a Mag primer when loading 357 with HP 38.

Why is 2400 a non mag primer and H110 is? Way are Win Large pistol Primers OK for regular and Mag and CCI's are not? I wonder if these Wolf Primers I use are hot enough?

Oh so many variables.
__________________
Still Running Against the Wind
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-18-2011, 06:05 PM
Dragon88 Dragon88 is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 107
Liked 456 Times in 205 Posts
Default

Using non-magnum primers with H110/W296 is asking for trouble. Sure you might do it your whole life and never have an issue, but it's not the correct method. H110/W296 should never be downloaded more than 3% and should always be touched off by magnum primers.

2400 is easily ignited by a standard primer and requires no additional help to burn. In fact Alliant specifically recommends standard primers with this powder. H110/W296 is slower, more finicky about ignition, and requires the extra flash from a magnum primer to burn reliably.

WLP primers for standard and magnum loads are a bit of an anomaly. Winchester primers are generally hotter in all variations, and testing probably made the manufacturer confident enough to promote them for standard and magnum use. Personally I use Federal magnum match primers for my big bore handgun loads.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-18-2011, 06:07 PM
Vartarg's Avatar
Vartarg Vartarg is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 192
Likes: 30
Liked 17 Times in 10 Posts
Default thanks

Thanks for the feedback......

I loaded this 50 with W231....also have some H110 on hand.

George
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-18-2011, 06:36 PM
Doubless Doubless is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 560
Likes: 54
Liked 341 Times in 179 Posts
Default

I use a lot of Accurate Arms powders, and read years ago that their powders are specifically designed to NOT require magnum primers. Now: having said that, I shoot AA 8700 in my 7 RM, and I do use a Federal 215 because of the heavy graphite coating on that powder. But other than that,no mag primers period, over about 30 years of rolling my own... And yes, that included some H110. Matter of fact, what I am shooting now is WC 820, and I will bet my life it is either AA #9 or Winchester 296. At any rate, it burns just fine with standard primers.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-18-2011, 07:29 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 22,065
Likes: 10,777
Liked 15,466 Times in 6,788 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vartarg View Post
Thanks for the feedback......

I loaded this 50 with W231....also have some H110 on hand.

George
Well with W 231/ HP 38 (same powder) you are fine. They do not require a Mag primer even though Hodgdon "tested" the loads with a Mag primers.
__________________
Still Running Against the Wind
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-19-2011, 01:28 AM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vartarg View Post
Thanks for the feedback......

I loaded this 50 with W231....also have some H110 on hand.

George
Like already said, the .357 Magnum ammo you made with W231 is perfectly fine with a standard primer. If you decided to load .357 Magnum ammo using H110/W296 I highly recommend you use a Magnum primer and a stiff crimp. Also, don't download H110/W296 more than 3% below the Max recommended charge. It doesn't play well with light loads but it's a great powder in full pressure loads for sure...
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-19-2011, 04:50 PM
Coaltminer Coaltminer is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 789
Likes: 9
Liked 478 Times in 233 Posts
Default

I use whatever I can find. When the primer shortage was in full swing, I bought CCI Mag. pistol primers for my 44 Special. Now using them up with 5 grs. Bullseye and jacketed or plated 240 gr. bullets. Here is the real question: what is the difference in rifle benchrest primers vs. standard? Beats me, I sure can't tell.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-19-2011, 04:54 PM
Dragon88 Dragon88 is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 107
Liked 456 Times in 205 Posts
Default

"Benchrest" primers are supposedly made by workers on the line who have displayed exceptional consistency in their batches. There is little difference between them and standard, but I do use BR-2 and Federal Match with good results.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-20-2011, 03:00 AM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coaltminer View Post
Here is the real question: what is the difference in rifle benchrest primers vs. standard? Beats me, I sure can't tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
"Benchrest" primers are supposedly made by workers on the line who have displayed exceptional consistency in their batches. There is little difference between them and standard, but I do use BR-2 and Federal Match with good results.
That's just about it, the workers on the Benchrest line are "better workers" from what I hear too.

Now an even better question... Considering there are really no differences between the standard primers and the benchrest primers why do the benchrest primers cost at least 50% more!!!??? CCI200 primers are $30/1000, CCI #34 NATO primers are $33/1000 and CCI BR-2 primers are $46/1000... That's ridiculous!!!
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-20-2011, 07:31 AM
Dragon88 Dragon88 is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 107
Liked 456 Times in 205 Posts
Default

Anything with "Benchrest" on it is going to bring a premium. And I pay a lot less than that for BR-2s.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-20-2011, 08:08 AM
Vartarg's Avatar
Vartarg Vartarg is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 192
Likes: 30
Liked 17 Times in 10 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
Also, don't download H110/W296 more than 3% below the Max recommended charge. It doesn't play well with light loads but it's a great powder in full pressure loads for sure...
That's interesting, because Hodgdon's load data website shows a starting load of 15gr and a max of 16.7gr for H110 w/158gr bulllets.....that's a starting load 11% below the max.

I've long used the Hodgdon site for rifle loading, and am wondering how your and other posters' comments about not reducing loads more than 3% from Max jive with Hodgdon's data?

Thanks,

George
__________________
Peace Thru Superior Firepower
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-20-2011, 08:15 AM
Dragon88 Dragon88 is offline
Member
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 107
Liked 456 Times in 205 Posts
Default

Directly from Hodgdon's website:

Quote:
For those loads listed where a starting load is not shown, start 10% below the suggested maximum load and then approach maximums carefully, watching for any sign of pressure (difficult extraction, cratered and flattened or blown primers, and unusual recoil). H110 and Winchester 296 loads should not be reduced more than 3%.

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.
Where Hodgdon is able to pressure test the loads, they may list lower starting charges. But where you are reducing on your own, they tell you 3%. For most cartridges that's not even one grain. They just want to make it very clear, do not download H110/W296 like you would another powder.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-22-2011, 12:57 AM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
Directly from Hodgdon's website:



Where Hodgdon is able to pressure test the loads, they may list lower starting charges. But where you are reducing on your own, they tell you 3%. For most cartridges that's not even one grain. They just want to make it very clear, do not download H110/W296 like you would another powder.
Thank you for answering that question and saving me the search for that data you quoted.

Vartarg,
You have the answer and it was well written...

I know it's a little confusing but that's what Hodgdon is telling us...
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-22-2011, 06:31 AM
Engineer1911's Avatar
Engineer1911 Engineer1911 is online now
US Veteran
Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag? Standard Primers in .357 Mag?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 6,114
Likes: 6,647
Liked 6,156 Times in 2,666 Posts
Default

I used standard pistol primers for the last 20 years and have not had any problems with Win 296 in 357 mag or 44 mag. YMMV
__________________
S&WHF 366
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
357 magnum, 45acp, bullseye, cartridge, crimp, primer, sig arms, skeeter, skelton, winchester

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Magnum vs Standard primers. LMWIS Reloading 21 09-06-2015 03:45 PM
Standard primers in 357 mag? DNS109 Reloading 25 01-21-2015 10:03 AM
Using SP Magnum primers in place of standard 1sailor Reloading 9 10-15-2012 11:24 AM
Substitute SP Magnum Primers for SP Standard Primers photoman Reloading 10 05-07-2009 09:00 PM
Standard vs MAG PRIMERS WITH 2400 HotBrass Reloading 10 03-20-2009 08:28 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:03 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)