quick jacketed to lead conversion

[gunhappy]

First off, I've been a member for a bit, but do not post often... Please don't hold it against me.

OK..so I know that jacketed bullets need more oomph to get them out of the barrel than lead, but lead is much cheaper to shoot. I am new to reloading and so far, my loads are good and my enjoyment factor is high...with that being said, is there a standard formula to deduct grains from a jacketed load to make an equivalent load. Kind of an expedient method if you don't have too many manuals? Thank you.

[Rule3]

No, there is no formula. Every manual has specific test parameters for the specific bullet, powder and primer.

But if you want to take a wild arse guess (I am not telling you to do this) For the same weight and shape bullet in lead, start at the lowest amount for the FMJ load. Even might what to try a few at 10% below the lowest FMJ load.

That's just my take on it, so use at your own risk. I am sure others will chime in so you can evaluate for yourself..

If you have a specific bullet and powder I am sure someone can give you a start load.

[OFT II]

It's hard to get two sources to agree on a load using the same powder and slug let alone different bullets. Also, each powder has it's own burn rate. I don't think that it is possible to have a rule of thumb that would work for this.

[gunhappy]

thank you for your timely responses...I don't want to blow up my revolver.

[Skip Sackett]

As Rule 3 has stated, there is a "recipe" to consider when you are reloading. That "recipe" is for specific components and was tested in s specific firearm or test barrel.

There are a lot of variables and there is no willy nilly number to grab when changing any one component that guarantees a safe load.

All of that being said, the firearm that you are shooting the bullets in would play a major factor in the way you approach this question.

Do your best to get a "recipe" for the components that you have. If in doubt, ALWAYS use the powder manufacturer's data first. If in doubt, call them. I have on several occasions and have always gotten good information from them. Professional too!

If you want to venture outside of that information, ask them about it. They will tell you if what you are experimenting with is feasible.

Have fun, be safe. Buy bunches of manuals and read them all.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by gunhappy

thank you for your timely responses...I don't want to blow up my revolver.

Or yourself!

What bullets, powder, caliber and gun?? I am sure we can give you some ideas.

For example the Lyman Cast Bullet manual has a lot of lead loads compared to other manuals.

[blujax01]

Add plated bullets to the equation and it gets even more interesting! It's very easy to create a charge that, while strictly within the range of "Mid-way between minimum and maximum shown for jacketed rounds", is totally unsuitable...

And I have the "keyholed" targets to prove it!

I tend to think bigger-better-faster. It's my nature to put the pedal to the metal, no matter what. And I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one who suffers this particular affliction.

I have to strive to remember the phrase that gets repeated on this forum over and over: "Start at the bottom and slowly, patiently, work your way up."

[Dragon88]

Originally Posted by gunhappy

thank you for your timely responses...I don't want to blow up my revolver.

I don't think you would blow up your revolver. More than likely, with a careless "conversion", the load would be much hotter than intended for the cast bullet and could cause extreme leading. I don't want to say jacketed bullet loads are easy, but well they are. Especially in common pistol calibers. A suitable charge of powder with a seated bullet and you are ready to go. Good cast bullet loads require some more though. Diameter of bullet, dimensions of the cylinder throats, forcing cone and bore, bullet hardness, bullet lube, etc. Cast bullets do a lot of bumping and grinding going out a revolver, and velocity has to be matched to bullet hardness and lube quality.

Anyway, as the others have said, there's no easy formula. However, all the info you need for your cast bullet loads will be contained in Lyman's 49th. It is the one manual I would recommend that covers just about every caliber and bullet type.

[Skip Sackett]

Originally Posted by Rule3

For example the Lyman Cast Bullet manual has a lot of lead loads compared to other manuals.

No, Rule, the Lyman CAST Bullet manual has ONLY lead loads, no matter who's manual you compare it to!

[Maximumbob54]

I think the resounding answer here needs to be go buy and read and follow a reloading manual. Or two. Or three. And make the first one the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.

[NiklasP]

There are lots of loading data available online, from nearly all of the major powder and/or bullet companies. Often these load data specify the bullet used, such as Hornady XTP, Speer Gold Dot, etc. -- not much need to guess when loading for such bullets.

Those of us that have been loading ammo for many decades have evolved ways to transition from data for lead bullets to jacketed bullets without harm to either our guns or ourselves. However, few of us are willing to post those tried-and-true arts on Internet boards.

I will give one hint, many of us ancients have stuck extensively to commonly used powders, often ones that have been around longer than we have. Lots of load data available for those powders in common cartridges.

Niklas

[Pisgah]

Generally, the max load of a given powder for a given weight and style jacketed bullet will be less than that for a comparable cast lead bullet. The jacketed bullet has a higher coefficient of friction, so less powder under it equals more pressure. Again generally, it will be perfectly safe to substitute a lead bullet of the same weight for a jacketed bullet, and the result will be somewhat higher velocity and somewhat lower pressure. Depending on the hardness and size of the bullet and the lube used, there may be leading.

[gregintenn]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Manual is essential, in my opinion, for anyone loading lead projectiles.

[arjay]

About 25 years ago I was splitting cases in my super blackhawk using cast bullets with jacketed bullet data.Good solid gun.Out of the thousands of rounds I put through it, not one was a moderate load.I like milder loads now.I must be aging.

[elundgren]

Most of the powder companies have reloading data online. You really should have at least one or two manuals too but hey, data is data.

Just noticed that Niklas already posted this. Still a good way to get info.

[TAROMAN]

+1 what he said. I might add that, IMHO, the Third Edition is the best.

Originally Posted by gregintenn

The Lyman Cast Bullet Manual is essential, in my opinion, for anyone loading lead projectiles.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by Pisgah

Generally, the max load of a given powder for a given weight and style jacketed bullet will be less than that for a comparable cast lead bullet. The jacketed bullet has a higher coefficient of friction, so less powder under it equals more pressure. Again generally, it will be perfectly safe to substitute a lead bullet of the same weight for a jacketed bullet, and the result will be somewhat higher velocity and somewhat lower pressure. Depending on the hardness and size of the bullet and the lube used, there may be leading.

That might be true except it's the other way around. Most jakceted daat requries MORE powder to achieve higher vel. Some believe it is the higher friction that needs to be overcome I believe it is the better gas seal of a lead bullet that allows LESS powder to achieve sim vel. If it were friction, then moly coated bullets would need less powder to achieve the same vel as non moly & that just isn't my exp.
Now tried & true rules for lead to jacketed. That is tough to nail down as most lead bullets have diff shapes/lengths than jacketed. BUT, in bullets of sim design, I have found approx 5% reduction in powder charge yields sim vel to jacketed bullets. Take that for what it is worth, you MMV, but that seems to work w/ 9mm, 40, 10mm & 45acp, where I can find sim shape lead bullets & run them against jacketed.

[Missionary]

Good morning
I am a caster for many years.. my dad was also.
There are numerous parameters involved with cast bullets that need to be considered unless you want to end up cleaning leaded barrels.
I highly recommend you visit Castboolits/Gunloads and read the info for new cast shooters.
Hardcast is not the solution. A properly fitted to throat diameter soft bullet is far more accurate and will give you far better accuracy.
Mike in Peru

[gunhappy]

Thank you for your quick responses. I guess Lymans is the way to go...I am reloading moderate loads that i have found on the Net of 16 grains of 2400 under a 210 grain 41 mag Lswc. i also loaded 8.2 grains of Bullseye under a Sierra 210 Gr. JHC. Neither of these rounds are wrist breakers, but i believe they would kill a deer cleanly. As I get older, i like heavy recoil less and less...My ultimate goal is to get a deer load for the 41 that is reasonable in blast and recoil.

Thanx again for your help.