38 special, 145gr LRN load help

[typetwelve]

I'm getting ready to make some rounds using this projectile here:

9mm 145gr, 800 ct. box, hard cast lead bullets, Summers Enterprises LLC

The bullet has no real crimp ring, so if anyone here have used this exact bullet, an OAL would help immensely. If not, I was planning on seating to close to where the bullet begins to taper to a point.

Second, crimp...I've already set up my 38 spcl to properly crimp some wadcutters I'm running, should I just leave that alone? Should I crimp that projectile at all? (My current crimp die is a Dillon roll crimp, BTW)

Lastly...I'm currently making some 148 WC rounds with 3-3.1gr of titegroup and was considering just doing the same on these given the bullet weight. Thoughts on that?

As always...thanks in advance.

[OKFC05]

Hard cast undersized 9mm bullets in a very light .38spl load...Why?
My first suspicion is this is a load that leads the barrel with mediocre accuracy due to gas going around the bullet..
Something around 4 gr of titegroup might get the bullet to obturate enough for a decent plinking round.
You don't say what depth you are seating the wadcutters (I seat WC flush) so can't comment on your present setting.
I'd try about 1.45 OAL to start and use enough crimp for the mouth to touch the bullet.
Good luck, but I'd much prefer a .358 medium hard .38spl bullet.

[muddocktor]

OKFC05, the bullet he linked is not a wadcutter. It is a round nose lead bullet and sized .358 diameter. So it isn't undersized either.

EDIT: Sorry, I see he also talked about his wadcutters too. Sorry about that; my bad.

@ OP, why go with a bullet that doesn't have a crimp groove for a 38 Special? Price? I would stick with bullets that have a crimp groove with 38 Special myself. I guess you could use a taper crimp die to crimp them, but I'm afraid I can't help you more than that.

[typetwelve]

Originally Posted by OKFC05

Hard cast undersized 9mm bullets in a very light .38spl load...Why?
My first suspicion is this is a load that leads the barrel with mediocre accuracy due to gas going around the bullet..
Something around 4 gr of titegroup might get the bullet to obturate enough for a decent plinking round.
You don't say what depth you are seating the wadcutters (I seat WC flush) so can't comment on your present setting.
I'd try about 1.45 OAL to start and use enough crimp for the mouth to touch the bullet.
Good luck, but I'd much prefer a .358 medium hard .38spl bullet.

I'm not sure why the link description says 9mm, but they are indeed a .358", medium cast bullet for 38 special. They have a hardness of 18, so I'm hoping they won't lead too bad.

I was just curious about seating/crimping is all...

[RodD]

Probably for use with speedloader in action shooting competition. Redding profile crimp die might be worth checking into.

[BC38]

FWIW, I think I would seat them just a smidge longer than you describe and use a standard roll crimp. The crimp will create its own shallow cannelure. It isn't like it is going to resize the entire bearing surface of the bullet - just a narrow little ring.

Using the same COAL as a 158gr LRN should work OK, since the shorter 145gr bullet will actually leave more volume in the case - resulting in slightly lower pressure.

Anyways, if it were me, that's what I'd try. I'd start by just loading up a few with a mid-level powder charge to test over a chrony for starters.

[rwsmith]

Crimp, but not enough to deform the bullet. The load will be light so there's little problem with bullet set back on firing.

Seat the bullet anywhere on the shank, short of the ogive. Maybe about 1/16".before. If you want you can crimp ON the ogive just ahead of the shank in absence of a crimp groove.

[oysterer]

For my competition rounds I use Blue Bullets 148 gr round nose, no crimp groove. They speed load great and are very very accurate for me. I use a RCBS 9mm taper crimp die. Run the case mouth up enough to bring it in but not all the way for full crimp. I check with a case gage when setting up and all great. For the 38 I do not need a full house roll crimp and I sure do not like to nick the coating. Works fantastic and I probably leaned it here....

[stansdds]

I hope you have better luck than I had with plated bullets that lacked a crimping groove. Bullet setback is not an issue with revolver, but bullets pulling out of the cases can be a big issue, a roll crimp eliminates bullet pull.

[ontargetagain]

The Bullseye @ 3-3.1 is a pretty light load, commonly used in the soft hollow base wadcutters. You can normally use data from a heavier bullet safely, so if you look at Alliants website for 38 special, '158gr' semiwadcutter you see 3.5gr Bullseye for max load, I would be inclined to work these roundnose at 3.1 to 3.5 gr. As mentioned without enough charge you are going to get a poor bullet seal in the bore and poor accuracy and resulting leading too.
In my opinion you could also consider a firm taper crimping die since these are light loads, Lee does make one and I have used it when doing lighter loads on plated bullets and it worked fine. Case tension will give you more hold than what the crimp will offer on its own.
Karl

[growr]

I have fired thousands of Donny's bullets is SASS matches as well as in IDPA/ICORE, Used the exact same setup as my 158 rn.

I did not change crimp or OAL and the feed very smoothly in my lever action rifles as well as drop in smoothly with my dad's K-38 that I use in IDPA/ICORE.

Have used 4 grains of Unique for many years with great results.

Randy

[gwpercle]

Your bullet has no crimp groove or cannelure to allow a proper roll crimp .
When loading smooth sided 9mm bullets in 38/357 I use the taper crimp die from a set of 9mm Luger dies....works just fine.
I have had no bullet pull/walk/creep out with a good taper crimp.

In my revolvers .357 or .358 diameter bullets shoot fine with no leading.
.356 diameter bullets are a no go.
Try your bullet of choice out before laying in a big supply.
Gary

[SMSgt]

You can make the COL as long as you want until the bullet either falls out or locks the cylinder. I'd seat a bit short of the ogive and use a taper crimp. Case grip alone should keep those bullet in place with that light a load.

[mikld]

Light loads with a taper crimp may work. Some will suggest roll crimping into the side of the bullet, and I have tried that but don't recommend it. For an OAL, find the measurement for a 130 RN and use that. I rarely leave my dies "adjusted" when changing bullets, as they are two different loads and I like to treat them as such. It should be no big deal adjusting a die, and if you're not real familiar with the process, practice is good to develop/fine tune your methods

Hints; next time after finding a load in your manuals, purchase the proper bullets for your gun. Yes some 9mm bullets can be used in 38 Special, but some reloading experience is needed to get around the inherent problems (I have been reloading for over 35 years and would not have much trouble). But, for anyone, it is best to use bullets designed for revolver use in a revolver.

[Nevada Ed]

I have shot .356 and .357 dia lead 9mm in my 38's and they did not
do well in the accuracy department.

A few years back, I tried some .358 dia. coated 9mm in a 2 & 6" barrel
with the 38 case with several powders.
This bullet was ok but nothing to write home about.

However I did save the rest of the box of bullets for a light load
to shoot after all my lead practice loads, to help clean out the barrel
in my 38 and 357 Magnum revolvers.

Good shooting.

[Big Wes]

I have some Laser Cast Oregon Trail 124 gr LRN 9mm bullets weighed them and most are 121/122 gr and mic @ 357 - 358 and not 356. they would make the 9mm cases bulge so I was planning on loading 38 specials with them. I made a dummy round 1.450 oal. look good crimp seems to be good, might try 3.4 grs. of bullseye and see how they work. I'm open to suggestions as far as loads go not much listed for that weight range I was looking at 125 gr loads for reference. Your suggestions are welcomed as far as load data and safety in using them for 38's.

Thanks,
Wes

[Forrest r]

IMHO:
The bullet
I would not of bought that bullet for 2 reasons. You already have your crimp die setup for a roll crimp. It's easier to buy bullets with crimp grooves and simply move the seating stem up/down. I understand it's simple enough to adjust the crimp die, but why? Myself, I don't move the roll crimp die, when I want a taper crimp I use a separate taper crimp die.
Those bullets are wwwaaaaayyyyy too hard for what your trying to do. I use 18bhn bullets for 30,000+psi 308w loads. You're relying on a mechanical fit to stop leading. You will have more leading issues from too hard of a bullet rather than too soft of a bullet. They put a simple formula out years ago trying to get people in the ballpark (close/not written in stone) of alloy/pressure combo's. It is 1440 x bhn ='s pressure, for your bullet you need 1440 x 18bhn ='s +/- 26,000psi load minimum to get the bullets alloy to expand/seal/obturate the cylinder/chambers/bbl. Just too hard of a bullet for your +/- 10,000psi load.

Powder charge
There's nothing wrong with titegroup. it's the lite load you plan on using. You did your 148gr wc load with it (good load/good job/good looking reloads). A picture of wc's along with seating depths and how they affect accuracy.


The 146gr rn bullet you plan on using will not seat as deeply as the 148gr wc's you used. Less case capacity ='s less pressure for the same load. You'll be getting into the 9,000psi/10,000psi range with that 3.0gr/3.1gr load of titegroup with that 18bhn bullet.

A link to hodgdon cowboy action reload data with titegroup loads
http://castpics.net/LoadData/Freebie...owboy%2003.pdf

You might consider looking around for bullets with crimp grooves, softer alloy/less bhn & either platted or coated bullets.

[typetwelve]

Thank you very much for all the advice, i decided to shelve those for now.

I ordered these last week instead:

.38 148gr, 500 ct. box, bullets only, hard cast lead bullets DEWCBB

I'll admit I ordered the LRN on a whim and didn't pay too much attention to the lack of the crimp groove when I got them.

I reloaded a set of the new coated 148gr Bullets with the same 3.0 of Titegroup and they shot great today. I'm sticking with those for now.

[Greenjoytj]

Does those red DEWC need to be pushed through a lubri-sizer to get the central lube groove filled?