Hi,

obviously I'm too dump to do a proper search in this forum, I don't get any output with keywords mentioned above.

So here's my question. I want to make some (relatively) powerful loads for my wife's M696 and am aware of the limits the forcing cone sets. Up to now I used about 4.5 grs of Trail Boss behind a 200grs copper plated lead TC bullet for training loads, and a 5.8 grs VV N320 load with the same bullet proved to be accurate and easy to handle as well. She will use the gun not for self defense but as a backup for use on game while hunting (here in Germany you are not entitled to carry a firearm, except for owners of a hunting license while in their own hunting district), so muzzle energy and penetration should be enough even for boar. Are there any thumb rules for muzzle velocity with certain bullets (lead, copper plated, jacketed) that should not be exceeded with a 696? I made some rounds with 240 grs Speer SWC Jacketed soft point and 7 grs VV 340 as well as 220 grs Sierra Flat Point and 8.5 grs VV N340, but they seem to be quite stout - if not too much for the 696. I think about using 200grs Hornady XTP or some lead hard cast in the 200-225 grs range for the future.

Any help is appreciated

regards
Ulrich

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Life is too short to own a bad gun

nobody out there?

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Life is too short to own a bad gun

Daimler; Your 586 is a good stout revolver. Should be safe with the loads you mentioned. My 44 Sp. is an old prewar Colt. Have had it for years. I always used 240 Gr. Lead semi wadcutter bullets & 14.5 Gr. 2400 powder. Newer pistols such as yours should be able to handle this load with ease. It's taken 5 deer over the years & is accurate.

Are we talking about a 696 44 or a 586 357?

Mike

yes, 696 and 44 of course...

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Life is too short to own a bad gun

I've used the old standby of 7.5 grains of unique behind a cast 250 grain swc in mine since new. Mine's a 696 no dash that I ordered when they were first announced. I can't see where the above load has caused any harm.

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S&W Accumulator

Hi,
I own a 696 , also a 624 four inch and a Ruger Blawkhawk 5.5"
Those are my short barreled and also my 3" Taurus which I hesitate to mention but is a nicer gun then you would think.
I also have a 24-3 3" and a 624 3"
So, I think about this problem quite a bit, I find Power Pistol to work very, very well. I only use 2400 in my 6.5" Model 624 because the barrel
length makes it more appropriate. Power Pistol gives very good velocities with reasonable pressures, it does flash a bit though.
Trail Boss works well for light lead loads , I do not use it with plated.
I follow Alliants web site closely, other sources I will up just a tad as I feel they are conservative for older weapons. I feel full burn in barrel is what you are after, and so load for barrel length a lot in pistols. P.M. me if you want Chris "PattonTime" "For actual loads"

Ulrich;
I shoot 44 spl in a 24, 624, and 696.
For serious loads I use VV-3N37; 8.8 grains with a 240/250 grain hardcast Keith Style bullet. This is a reasonably stout load and should chronograph at near 1000 fps from a 5” barrel. I shoot it in my 696 but have not choreographed it, I would think perhaps 950 ish.
Perhaps N-340 is a bit fast, N-350 might be better.
There was an article in Handloader #236 which many of us who shoot the .44 Special refer to as definitive.
The maximum VV-3N37 load suggested is 9.0 grains; I have found that 8.8 grains is fine for my purposes. The author of the article uses this load hunting. A hard cast Keith Style bullet should have plenty of penetration for Boar. Dependent upon the caster, alloy, and mold Keith Style Bullets will vary from 240 to 260 grains.
Regards,
Roger

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

Hello Ulrich,
I have used a load consisting of a swaged Speer 240gr LSWC, 7.5 to a max of 8.0gr of Winchester WSF power, and a Win WLP in my 696-2 for many years. It is its most favored accuracy load and is not a high pressure load although likely a little over SAAMI spec 14Kpsi but under 20Kpsi (the gun is easily capable of 25Kpsi according to many references, notably Brian Pearce). Velocity is 900-925fps. It is very clean, no leading, and consistent. I would prefer a hard cast or lead bullet for your application to a jacketed hollow point to ensure adequate penetration. I do have some load information that gives pretty remarkable velocities for the 200gr JHP Speer Gold Dot 44 Special bullet, but it is designed to open fast at lower velocities and would not be a suitable selection for your purpose due to inadequate penetration.

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" I said, good DAY! "

Thanks everyone for input. I will stay with VV powders because they are easily available here in Germany, US made propellants are harder to come by. I guess I will try different loads: a hard cast 200-240 gr with about 950-850 ft and a jacketed HP 200 (I have some Hornady XTP on the shelf) with about 900 ft.

I will leave feedback when I chronod them, might take some time.

best regards
Ulrich

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Life is too short to own a bad gun

If you find a recipe that will get you 850 to 900 fps with a 200 grainer stop right there. It doesn't need any more and won't get any better. Unique will push a 200 gr. at 875 to 900 fps with very low pressure. 215 gr. SWC work well in these guns also. In a 3 in. L frame you don't really have enough barrel to get a 240 grainer moving very fast and if you try you'll just stress the platform. My advice is to make that 696 last. They aren't going to make any more and all of the parts are pretty much gone now. I have been shooting one since 1996 and mine still shoots like new. One of S&W's best ideas ever. (even if the market didn't want it).

215 grain cast SWC is a great bullet. A V V that approximates Unique or Universal burn rate and a MV of 900 should get the job done. SWCs are great on game as they drive through muscle and break heavy bone.

Ulrich -
I sold my 4" S&W 624 several years ago, but recall my favorite load as follows:

LBT 260WFN-PB / .432" / 10BHN
VV N-330 / 6.8 grains
Federal LP primers
Starline .44 SPL Brass

It was an accurate load in that revolver - pleasant to shoot, with plenty of punch.

Note that the bullets were sized for a firm finger pressure push through, of the cylinder throats. Cast bullets that were a loose / drop through fit of the cylinder throats, tended to lead the bore rather quickly.

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Regards - GCF

I agree with Mike, SC Hunter; 7.5 grains of Unique with a 250 grain cast Keith SWC is a great load! Another load that has worked well for me is 4.5 grains of Bullseye behind the same bullet. Both loads should work well in your handgun.

Whelenshooter

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SWCA 2379

If you search the internet for loads with Blue Dot, you can find some pretty hot loads for 44 special. Alliant, the present maker of Blue Dot, used to publish a very hot load for 180 grain bullets in the 44 special, but they have dropped it. Other sources still show such loads.

Win brass, Fed 150 primer, firm LFC, 3 in 696,

200 gn gold dot
8.8 grains V V - N350 = 885 fps, very good accuracy
9.0 gns V V - N350 = 926 fps, very good to ex accuracy
7.5 grains Unique = 868 fps very good accuracy

185 Hdy xtp
9.0 grains unique = 1020 fps very good to ex accuarcy
9.6 grains N350 = 986 fps, decent accuracy

200 grain lead rnfp to replicate poi of 200 grain gold dot loads
6.4 grains hp 38 = 821 fps, very good accuracy
7.0 grains unique = 805 fps, good potential
5.4 grains Red Dot = 830 fps, decent
6.2 grains Green Dot = 870 fps, good potential

Older factory rounds
Blazer aluminum case factory load = 890 fps
Win silvertip factory load = 730 fps, lousy accuracy

215 lyman with GC 17 gr. h4227 or imr 4227 and a mag primer.