Hi, do any of you have data or experience with 38 specials loaded with Clays, or Green Dot Powders? I am going to use hard cast SWC 158 gr. bullets. I have Lyman 49th. Handbook, Alliant, and Hodgen booklets, but not much there. I am new to .38, but have been loading 9's & 40's, with these powders. Want a load for steel targets and paper targets. Something accurate. Thanks, Bob

I'm actually loading some 38 Special with Clays right now. 125gr bullets though, never tried it with 158gr. I have found Clays to be very clean and consistent for light target loads.

Hodgdons on line data center lists a load for Clays and 158 gr LSWC

I do not personally use either powder but rely on HP 38/ W 231.

Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

From the Hodgdon Site:

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Thanks, I don't think that one was in my book! Have you tried it? Bob

That data is on the Hodgdon load data site. The URL is in Post #3.

I tried Clays in 148gr DEWC loads but I found it hard to meter such small charge weights associated with that load. I'm a huge W231/HP-38 fan and use it for most of my handgun ammo especially in the .38 Special.

My 2 favorite .38 Special loads are:
3.2gr to 3.4gr W231 under a 148gr DEWC
4.0gr W231 under a 158gr LSWC

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Whatever you do, don't use the Green Dot loads from the Speer #8 - they absolutely plate your bore with lead off even the best hardcasts.

Been using clays, not universal clays, for years for cowboy action. 3.0 to 3.5 is a mild load with 158's. shoot them for long time.

I loaded Clays with a 148 gr HBWC for a long time but switched to HP38. Never tried it with the 158 SWC but it should have similar results. Very accurate and clean burning. I am actually thinking of switching back to Clays because it seems to burn much cleaner.

Ditto on the Speer #8 manual. Stay away from it.

I bought a LARGE quantity of Green Dot, when I was shooting skeet, as I could load 12 gauge, and 20 with it.

Been loading .38 Special 158 Gr Speer swaged bullets for YEARS, with 4.2 grains. It chronographs about 800 fps with a 4" barrel. Just a good mild field load. Leading is minimal.

I think I have enough Green Dot for about 10,000 more .38 loads.

__________________
NRA Instructor

3.1g of Clays in 38 spl with a 158g LRNFP gave me 780fps out of a 6" M66, accurate load and clean burning. I was using that load in SASS but have since went down to 2.9g for a little less recoil, still accurate and clean burning but I have not run them over the chrono.

This load uses TVB's most excellent 148 grain double-ended wadcutter. In my good revolvers and "mediocre-ly capable" hands it performed about equal to my best handloading efforts with HBWC's and 2.8 grians of Bulls-Eye. Leading wasn't an issue in any revolvers used. Sometimes I wonder if leading can be a byproduct of failure to religiously clean revolvers after each use. It may not matter in some extreme leading instances but it may make a difference to keep the bores clean.

148 grain TVB DEWC/3.7 grains Green Dot

2-Inch Barrel
Muzzle Velocity: 669 fps
Muzzle Energy: 147 ft./lbs
Extreme Spread: 45
Standard Deviation: 23

4-Inch Barrel
MV: 706 fps
ME: 164 ft./lbs.
ES: 43 fps
SD: 14 fps

5-Inch Barrel
MV: 735 fps
ME: 179 ft./lbs.
ES: 17 fps
SD: 7 fps

6-Inch Barrel
MV: 690 fps
ME: 156 ft./lbs.
ES: 31 fps
SD: 13 fps

8 3/8-Inch Barrel
MV: 775 fps
ME: 197 ft./lbs.
ES: 73 fps
SD: 33 fps


6-shots/10 yards with a Smith & Wesson Model 14-4. Left target shot with the TVB 148 grain DEWC and 3.7 grains of Green Dot. Right target shot with Hornady 148 grain HBWC and 2.8 grains of Bulls-Eye.



10 shots/10 yards with a Colt Officer's Model Match using Hornady hollow base wadcutters and 2.8 grains of Bulls-Eye.

I've been playing with Alliant ClayDot powder this year in my .38 specials.

Using a Magnus 148gr HBWC (swaged)

2.2 gr Alliant ClayDot fed 100 primer fed cases 711 fps s.d 9.3 fps
basically duplicates the Federal 148gr Gold Match load velocity.

2.5 gr Alliant ClayDot fed 100 primer fed cases 794 fps s.d 15.3 fps

Shooting this in my 6" Model 66.

25 yards from an old Lee Pistol Rest!

Used it for the indoor winter PPC league in Michigan

best score 598-35x.

Attached Images

	2012-04-17_21-12-08_203.jpg (77.0 KB, 79 views)
	2012-04-17_21-11-43_812.jpg (65.0 KB, 75 views)

I used up a 15lb keg of Red Dot with 38SP, then switched to Green Dot when I started shooting 20ga more than 12ga.

What Erich and JohnK said...GD works well if you stay away from Speer#8!

Keep them moderate and you will do fine with GD and swaged bullets. If they are hardcast, then it will take a bit of a trial and error to find the sweet spot where the obturate correctly without causing leading.

__________________
" I said, good DAY! "

My favorite plinking and steel plate load is 2.8 gr. Trail Boss behind a 158 gr. LRN bullet. Attached is a page from the 2005 Alliant reloading guide with info on Green Dot powder in 38 Special.

Attached Images

25 ACP - 38 Special.jpg (129.4 KB, 526 views)

I have the SPEER #8 also and comparing some of those loads they recommend to loads in newer manuals gets me to wondering how they came up with them. They show 6.0 grs of unique with 158 gr. lead SWC as max. but a look at the Speer #12 bookshows the same bullet with 4.7 grs Unique as max.

The 5.5 grs of Green Dot , shown in #8 , has been revised in #12 to 4.2 grs max. with a starting load of 3.8 grs of Green Dot with the 158 lead SWC. this sounds better

Bananaman...now you see the need to own several reloading manuals. always cross check loads if 2 or 3 books recomend a load , it is probably good. And allways check a load suggested by others with published data. And even older published data ( like Speer #8 ) can now be out of sync. with newer manufacturing of the same named powder.

Be safe when reloading we don't want to lose anyone or any body parts while doing this....... gary

Gary, you weren't around here about five years ago when we all were having wars over THE LOAD.

Unique isn't a problem with the #8 . . . but there are other loads that can freak people out.