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Old 08-24-2011, 07:36 AM
11e40 11e40 is offline
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Default bluedot in .41 mag ?

looking for midrange load 950 fps w/lswc 215 gr. anybody using bluedot ? i have heard conflicting reports as to safety issues. also hace greendot & reddot on hand. thanks,john.
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:46 AM
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Blue Dot is still a no go in the .41 mag.per Alliant.Clays or Auto Comp is much better suited powder for the velocities you are seeking.

Last edited by longranger; 08-24-2011 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:50 AM
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Sounds like a Unique load to me. Blue dot was deemed "not for 41mag" , but not sure why. It was a full power loading if memory serves. Start with 7.0 grains of green dot and work up about a half grain or Red dot at 6.7 and work up about a half grain. Check some loading books or online data sources to confirm.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:14 AM
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At Alliant Powder, we take safety seriously. That’s why we periodically test our products in different situations to be sure our use recommendations stay current. Check here for any safety notes or recall information. Stay safe and keep accurate.
Alliant Powder periodically reviews and tests their published reloading data to verify that our recommended recipes have not changed over time.
During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder's Blue DotŪ should not be used in the following applications:
  • Blue DotŪ should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue DotŪ recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
  • Blue DotŪ should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).
Use of Blue DotŪ in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.
We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this ma
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:04 AM
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some of my old books show BD powder for the 41mag... it did make a big boom compared to other powders.... stopped using awhile ago after reading the warnings
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:11 AM
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Does anyone have any intelligence on the Blue Dot vs .41 Magnum thing? I used to use it and probably have 100-150 rounds of .41s standing by, loaded with 220 gr LSWCs and whatever the acceptable charge of Blue Dot was, at that time - maybe ten years ago? I was never a big user of Blue Dot, but I did find it made very accurate handloads in the .41, and also in 10mm. It was one of the few powders that I thought made more accurate loads than #2400. And I never saw the slightest sign of a trouble.

I accept the "don't do it!" part - no problem there, but I would just like to know more, if the info is out there. Seems odd there would not be a similar recommendation for 44 Magnum, since the two cartridges are so similar.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:20 AM
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Good question. I have never seen a "test" or a definite reason why other than excessive pressure. For example why is it just the 125 gr bullet in the 357??

Of course in previous threads there are those who claim to still use it or have used with no problems.

I never cared for the powder and still trying to use up a 1lb jar. It works OK at full loads, but under that it spits out unburned powder.
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:09 AM
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I have used 10.7 gr. of Blue Dot with a 215 gr. Valient bullet. That load made 950 fps from my 4" mod 57 and the same velocity from one of my model 58's. I usually use the same bullet and 6.5 gr. of Red Dot for the same velocity. Dean
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:33 AM
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Based on the feedback to date and the copy and paste from Alliant's web page it would appear that the use of Bluedot is potentially problematic for a 41 mag even though people seem to have had no problems.
I wouldn't want to be shooting the revolver IF it had an issue so I'd avoid it but then its your revolver and limbs that are in jeopardy!
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:01 PM
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Blue Dot used to be one of my main "go to" powders for the .41. Immediately after Alliant issued their "sky is falling" warnings, I called them and talked to an engineer about the less-than-max load I'd settled on: he told me, "That's acceptable." He also said that new load data would be forthcoming shortly.

I think that was a couple of years ago.

In any event, Blue Dot would be the wrong powder for the load you seek (I've found it has really extreme spreads and is dirty at low pressures like that). I personally wouldn't use Green Dot or Red Dot (tho 41 Fan's load sounds good), either, though. 7.0 grains of Unique or 7625 ought to get you in the ballpark from a 4".

Last edited by Erich; 08-24-2011 at 05:55 PM. Reason: To correct "7625" instead of typo "7615"
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:29 PM
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What has always amazed me (said it before) is how Alliant manages to bury this important information on their web site. It should be on the main page but noooo.

You need to click Getting Started, then Click Safety Info, then click Product Safety Notices!

Does anyone have a new container of Blue Dot? Is it written on the bottle??
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:38 PM
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"That's acceptable" is not much help, is it? I believe if they were emphatic enough to publish a bunch of warnings that are abundantly clear prohibiting the use, I would wonder why he would make a remark like that?
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:31 PM
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I, too, used BD back in the day when I owned my BH .41 Mag. It worked great, accurate and clean, but if the manufacturer decided to un-recommend it, I'd take their word.

Still miss that Blackhawk.
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:03 PM
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i have tried a number of powders for 41 mag.i have locked in with unique...good stuff!
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:35 PM
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Smile .41 Mag. and Blue Dot

I have been shooting .41 Mag for at least 20 yrs. and Blue Dot was the high velocity load back 20 yrs. The problem now is that the powder isn't the same. Made in different factories over the years so it would be a good idea to heed the warnings. Erich is right ......BD is only for full cases with heavy crimp.

Be safe.
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:30 PM
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Blue Dot has been my favorite powder in .41 mag for over 20yrs. I had several Emails with the powers at Alliant when the warnings came out. Seems that a lot of people were using the data for the 220gr Lyman 410459 for ANY bullet 210gr or better , even jacketed. As I've pointed out many times , the Lyman 410459 Keith-style bullet has a long nose and short shank. And , some recent lots were a tick faster than the norm. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists the max load with the 410459 as 16grs. This is WAY over max for any 210gr jacketed bullet. But some loaders think any bullet weighing anywhere near 220 is OK. They look for the highest load regardless of bullet. They think bullet weight is the only factor. And since a 210 weighs less than the 220gr 401459 , they think it's OK. And the 215gr bevel based SWC offered by many cast bullet suppliers has a longer shank than the 410459. This led to compressed loads with other bullets , frequent high pressures and a few blown-up revolvers.

I also think this may be part of the reason Lyman discontinued this mould. Their 215gr gas checked SWC , similar in shank length to the common 215gr bevel based SWC , has a max charge of 14.5.
Again , this is an older book/data so charges should be reduced by at least 10% and worked up carefully!

Since I'm no longer knocking down steel animals with my .41 Redhawk , I dropped my Blue Dot charge to 15gr with the 410459. I was loading 16.5grs of older lots with no high pressure.

Last edited by mkk41; 08-24-2011 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyb View Post
i have tried a number of powders for 41 mag.i have locked in with unique...good stuff!
I am a Unique guy too in my 41 mag loads...I load to police load velocities in my 58 and Redhawk....get great accuracy and mild shooting "varmint" load....I have some hotter loads for those bigger varmints as well
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:53 PM
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When Alliant first came out with the warning about Blue Dot, I contacted them about the load I had been using for years in the .41 magnum with a lead 215 grain bullet. The reply that came back from them was that the load was "acceptable" as long as I used that load and did not try to increase the charge. I still load it but have been trying Unique lately and plan on trying 4756 before long. I don't push lead loads in the .41 very hard and rarely go over 1200 fps with them, most of the loads I used run around 100fps ---give or take a few feet. Works for me but I do plan on phasing out the Blue Dot when I can find an acceptable load to replace it. James
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:39 AM
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Several issues. First of all, it appears there was a change in the formula sometime after Alliant took over from Hercules. Don't know when this was, but obviously, if you had "great results for years" you probably had been using Hercules and early Alliant. Newer Alliant is the issue.

Second, some of the issue seems to have to do with compression. See: Blue Dot; Hercules vs Alliant test - Cast Boolits

Third, Blue Dot in pistol rounds has always had a reputation of getting "peaky" when it comes to pressure, especially in cold weather, for some reason...

More reading on the overall issue: Blue Dot Warning - Glock Talk

I think the bottom line is that you CAN use Blue Dot once again, with their newer data. Go to their on-line load data and check what they list. All their data has been re-tested and confirmed to be good with current-production powder. Just don't expect it to work as well or should I say "get as high velocity" as the old Blue Dot. Also, it is still not listed for 357s with 125gr bullets or any 41 Magnum data.

Last edited by MMA10mm; 08-25-2011 at 09:23 PM. Reason: ambiguity for not showing 125gr 357s and all 41 Mag is still not recommended, even with the most-recent data
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:32 AM
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I agree that Blue Dot is jakey at low temps.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMA10mm View Post

I think the bottom line is that you CAN use Blue Dot once again, with their newer data. Go to their on-line load data and check what they list. All their data has been re-tested and confirmed to be good with current-production powder. Just don't expect it to work as well or should I say "get as high velocity" as the old Blue Dot.
However they still do not list any 41 Mag or 125gr-357 mag loads.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
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However they still do not list any 41 Mag or 125gr-357 mag loads.
Right! Should've made that clearer! Oops... I'll go back and fix that, so no one gets the wrong idea.
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:45 AM
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Has anyone tried the 300 MP powder in the 41 or 357? Was on Alliant's data section and noticed in the 357 and 44 it has much higher muzzle velocities than 2400. No data yet for 41. Looks like it might be a good candidate for those supper dupper loads.
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Old 11-10-2014, 08:41 PM
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Default 41 magnum and Blue Dot powder

Too bad about Blue Dot and the 41 Magnum. I have been shooting it for a time now with the 210 gr. X-treme copper clad bullet and 11 gr. of B.D. and it's my best load. At 20 yards it will put a 5 shot 2"group on the target off hand using the model 57 4". I hope they come out with some loading data for the powder and 41.
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Old 11-11-2014, 12:57 PM
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+1 with post #19.....

I received a E-mail from the company and they gave me the low down on what the problems were.
Along with the above statements, Alliant was also getting very wide ES on some loads
and could only get things right by backing off the powder charge.

Ben did give me some data for my 357, since I had a LOT of BD back then, since it was also used for HEAVY 12 Ga. field loads.

When my last bottle is gone, I can survive with Unique and 2400 for both ends of the loading platform.

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 11-11-2014 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 11-11-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11e40 View Post
looking for midrange load 950 fps w/lswc 215 gr. anybody using bluedot ? i have heard conflicting reports as to safety issues. also hace greendot & reddot on hand. thanks,john.
I have to call BS on BD not being suitable in the 41mag at all. It is a staple powder for the 10mm, not to far from the 41mag, & the 10mm guys run it very hard. Who knows why the powder companies do what they do as to data, but I can't see how a low midrange load of BD with a LSWC is going to be dangerous in any way.
Look at Alliant's data for the 357mag. The 110gr bullet is good & the 140gr is good, but the 125gr bullet is causing a problem?? I don't see the dynamics of the powder changing from safe to unsafe & back again within the same cartridge. Many powders get weird at the top end & some at the bottom, but medium loads pretty much can be worked up with any powder suitable for shotgun or handgun.
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