Question for old reloaders regarding 38 spl

[Lost Californian]

I loaded a bunch of bullets today, and found that Hornady 158gr XTP over 4.5gr of W231 and WSP primers was an awesome round for my Model 10 with 2" barrel and the Model 15 with 4" barrel.

I looked in the Speer manual I have, and it does not cover this combination, and I did not see it on the crib sheet for the Lee reloading dies I use. I scoured the interweb for load data, and would like to know if anyone would look up what the MAX grains are for W231 and 158 gr XTPs. All I could find on the web was what people's favorite load was, and I do not wish to go too far and have a moment of mild stress if things go ka-blooey in a big way.

Thanks!

[Biginge]

Hey LC,

My Hornady book shows W231 pushing a #35780 FP-XP. Starting load is 3.7 (600fps) and max load with Win 231 is 4.9 grs. That is absolute top end @800fps, use with caution. 4.6 grs. will give you 750fps and is not outlined in red.

Good luck

Bill

[Rule3]

Who you calling Old?

I concur with Biginge. as per the Hornady new version #8

You would not find XTP in the Speer book, they would be Gold Dots. Hornady makes the XTP's

The 4.9 grs that is considered max is indicated as a +P load.

[Steve in Vermont]

Speaking of Hornady XTP, I've loaded the 125 gr with either 4.5 gr of Bullseye or 4.8 of 231 with good results. Easy to shoot and very accurate in all my guns, especially the snubbies. These are both minimum loads, according to Hornady, and a long ways from +P.

[noylj]

You are loading at or just under a max load for a standard .38 Special.
Per Hornady, the 158gn HP-XTP takes 3.7gn to start (~600fps) and goes to 4.6gn max (750fps). The +P max load is 4.9gn at 800fps.
COL 1.450" in the cannelure.

[Skip Sackett]

From the Hodgdon data website:

158 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .357" 1.455" 3.8 661 12,600 CUP 4.3 779 15,900 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HP-38 .357" 1.455" 3.8 661 12,600 CUP 4.3 779 15,900 CUP

Go there yourself. data.hodgdon.com and do a search for your load.
At present, you are over the standard load by .2gr.

In the +P data, it says you can go to 4.6gr of HP-38, the exact same powder as W231.

Hope this helps.

[Mack]

Please, an XTP is a "bullet". "Boolits" is a slang term for cast lead bullets used to identify them as not being jacketed. A minor point but using "boolits" in reference to a jacketed bullet negates the whole reason for the words existence :-).

[Lost Californian]

Originally Posted by Mack

Please, an XTP is a "bullet". "Boolits" is a slang term for cast lead bullets used to identify them as not being jacketed. A minor point but using "boolits" in reference to a jacketed bullet negates the whole reason for the words existence :-).

Profuse apologies - no harm intended, and thank you for the gentle correction.

Thank you all for the responses. I have the over all length set at 1.45" according to my calipers.

Originally Posted by Steve in Vermont

Speaking of Hornady XTP, I've loaded the 125 gr with either 4.5 gr of Bullseye or 4.8 of 231 with good results. Easy to shoot and very accurate in all my guns, especially the snubbies. These are both minimum loads, according to Hornady, and a long ways from +P.

I have been considering using the 125 gr bullets. Thanks for letting me know about your satisfaction with them!

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by Lost Californian

Thank you all for the responses. I have the over all length set at 1.45" according to my calipers.

As a added note, the OAL in the manual is based on their trim to length which is probably shorter than your brass.

For bullets with a cannelure, I just seat them based on that.

The max case length is 1.290, the trim length is 1.280 so Hornady comes up with a COL of 1.590

[M29since14]

Hey Lost Californian, and now apparently fellow Hooiser, I am sure your load is fine and there is no imminent danger of a "ka-blooey" (hope there is no limited-use qualifier on that term ), as long as you don't stray too far from that combination. Don't take the boolit/bullet thing too hard. You haven't posted a lot, so just to be sure, I think I can safely say we're all glad to see you here.

[Lost Californian]

Originally Posted by M29since14

Hey Lost Californian, and now apparently fellow Hooiser, I am sure your load is fine and there is no imminent danger of a "ka-blooey" (hope there is no limited-use qualifier on that term ), as long as you don't stray too far from that combination. Don't take the boolit/bullet thing too hard. You haven't posted a lot, so just to be sure, I think I can safely say we're all glad to see you here.

It's all good. I just be looking for info, and the folks here provide a lot of that. Most I can get from just searching and reading, but occasionally I have to ask silly questions.

Main reason I asked for "old" reloaders is because a friend of mine has been reloading for a long time, and the older manuals he has give larger powder loads than the newer books, using the same componets. Don't know if it is because the powder manufacturers have improved on their product, or the publishers are being more conservative due to lawsuits.

[M29since14]

Probably a combination of many things. Everyone is always quick to pounce on the "the lawyers did it!" theory, but things do change over time in a lot of ways. I have certainly become more careful with my handloading as time progressed, and I have better equipment to work with than I did forty or so years ago when I started. Manufacturers constantly improve their products and equipment, just like we do.

A lot of us "more experienced" handloaders are not fond of seeing substantial changes come along that affect our old standby loads, but I fail to see what real difference it makes whether we use 19 or 22 grains of 2400 in our 44 Magnums - IF we get the results we expect.

I have used the charge weight you mention with a variety of different bullets of about 160-grs. and have never seen any type of trouble. The old data I am used to recommends 4.4 grains for non +P loads, but you see more variation than that when you go from one manual to another, and possibly even from charge to charge, unless you weigh each one.

[jrplourde]

Originally Posted by Mack

Please, an XTP is a "bullet". "Boolits" is a slang term for cast lead bullets used to identify them as not being jacketed. A minor point but using "boolits" in reference to a jacketed bullet negates the whole reason for the words existence :-).

The very use of the word "boolits" is aggravating as hell to say the least. In fact is pisses me off no end. I could wish folks would learn the language.

Bob

[lazy]

A few weeks ago I got 231 with a 158 gn rnfp to go 874.3 for the average speed.

A high of 915, and a low of 833 fps

.38 case in a 4" 686

[Dragon88]

Originally Posted by jrplourde

The very use of the word "boolits" is aggravating as hell to say the least. In fact is pisses me off no end. I could wish folks would learn the language.

Casters don't say "boolit" because they don't know how to spell "bullet". Bullets and boolits are two different things, though the latter is admittedly slang.

Do you have something against boolits?

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by jrplourde

The very use of the word "boolits" is aggravating as hell to say the least. In fact is pisses me off no end. I could wish folks would learn the language.

Bob

Didn't this come up previously some time ago?

Tell us how you really feel.

[Lost Californian]

Originally Posted by jrplourde

The very use of the word "boolits" is aggravating as hell to say the least. In fact is pisses me off no end. I could wish folks would learn the language.

Bob

Wal, pardn'r, I shore be sorry I upset yore applecart there. Ain't gonna get rid of thishere lingo I use, tho. Somethings was jest meant to be, y'all reckon? As fur as larnin' the langage, is that what the school marm was spoda do fur me, back when I was jest a whippersnapper out picking them snap beans for pa n ma?

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by Lost Californian

Wal, pardn'r, I shore be sorry I upset yore applecart there. Ain't gonna get rid of thishere lingo I use, tho. Somethings was jest meant to be, y'all reckon? As fur as larnin' the langage, is that what the school marm was spoda do fur me, back when I was jest a whippersnapper out picking them snap beans for pa n ma?

OMG! don't let Texas Star see this, I think they are related At least we no how to say Car. Kaar


http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/...ral-knife.html

[ArchAngelCD]

I don't usually load many jacketed bullets for the .38 Special. My favorite load is 4.0gr W231 under a 158gr LSWC bullet. When I do load a jacketed bullet I use the Max charge of 4.6gr W231 listed on the Hodgdon site for a 158gr Hornady XTP bullet. (+P load data which is hardly +P at only 18,000 psi)