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  #1  
Old 11-29-2011, 01:21 AM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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Default Unique "smokeless powder" yeah right

I just compared two 2400, two Uniques and two Power Pistol rounds out of a 4 inch revolver.

One thing I noticed was....unique produced so much smoke that I actually had to step to the side out form behind a cloud of smoke to see what I was shooting at.

Of course it was mild compared to black powder from a ball and cap...but good grief, I thought smokeless was supposed to be just that. Power Pistol and 2400 had almost nothing in the air after discharge
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:39 AM
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stop bitchin and simply do not use it if you do not like it. There are many powders out there to choose from.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:42 AM
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Unique is a...how to put it...a unique powder.

It is one of my favorites because it's very useful and hasn't let me down. It can be a bit on the dirty side, and much more so if the load is too light. A medium to +P load is where it's going to burn a bit cleaner.

Also, the "new" Unique is a bit cleaner than the old.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook686 View Post
stop bitchin .
Like, ow my gaaash, this powder, like, really suuucks. I mean, like, really this is just, like, really dirty powder. Couldn't they, like, make a powder that, like, didn't, like pollute the air and dirty my, like, gun so much? I mean the, like, second hand ssmowke is, like, dangerous. This should be a, like, smoke-free powder.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:23 AM
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I don't like anything about Unique so I don't use it but there are many who like it a lot and that's good for them.

BTW, the powder isn't the only thing that causes smoke, the bullet lube is more so a cause as is the pressure generated by the load. (usually lower pressure, more smoke)
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:31 AM
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seriously though, I don't dislike Unique. It's cheap, it seems to be a good middle-of-the-road powder from what I can tell. But it just seems kinda odd that it should produce the kind of smoke that I described. I don't recall too many, if any, factory loads that ever did that.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:43 AM
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Unique is good for middle to maximum loads in a short case. I use 6.0 to 6.5 grains for 230 grain .45 ACP, and it burns clean with little smoke. It's just bulky enough that it nearly fills the case. I use a slower powder, like 2400, for high-pressure, high velocity loads in .357 Magnum and mid to hot loads in .44 Magnum., where it nearly fills the case.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:02 AM
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I have loaded more Unique than any other powder. If I could only afford one Pistol Powder it would be Unique. It will do more things than any other "one" powder.
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:58 AM
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Because Unique can be used in so many cartridges, it fits few really well. Now, there are others that like it so much, they put it on their Post Toasties. I use it in the place I feel it works best, moderate to heavy loads in the 45Colt. If I loaded for the 40S&W now, gave my stuff to my son in law, and because I now have 8lbs of a surplus version of it, I would use it there.

Can Unique be dirty? Absolutely. Just like any other powder if used with lead or loaded on the light side.

Make some honest assessments Doug, was your load kind of light? If so, bump it up, staying inside of safe data, by .2gr increments to the top part of the data and see if it doesn't clean up.

There is an old joke about a guy that bought a chainsaw for the first time. He brought it back to where he bought it with the complaint that he could cut down much more wood with his trusty ax than that new fangled thing. The clerk took it from him, pulled the cord several times and if fired right up. The customer looked at the clerk with a weird expression on his face and said: "What's that?"

It wasn't the chain saw's fault that the customer didn't know how to use it......................
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2011, 08:38 AM
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Ah... Louisiana! It was in New Orleans in 1980 that I loaded my first revolver loads... of course it was the .38 Special. Ended up with great results. Used Skeeter Skelton's suggested load... 5.0 gr. of Unique and a 158/160 gr. LSWC. I've found different types of bullet lubricant produce varying amounts of soot. For my purposes, Unique has produced excellent results for me in .38/.357 and .45ACP rounds. I will also mention that I shoot a lot of vintage military rifle matches. In 1985 I came up with a load for my Remington 03-A3 rifle using Unique and a swaged lead bullet made by a now defunct company named Albertus. That load would shoot into 2.0 inches at 100 yds. Nowadays I use a 165 gr. hardcast lead bullet by Hunter Supply in my Remington 03 rifle loaded over a mere 8.0 gr. of Unique. It routinely averages 96.9 for 10 shots fired prone slow-fire at 100 yds. From a benchrest it will stay well within the 10 ring of a SR-1 target. I'm sure there are other powders available that will do a better job in particular usages. But I have since 1980 very much enjoyed using Unique in a broad variety of calibers.
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  #11  
Old 11-29-2011, 09:20 AM
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Why worry about "dirty" powder. What is in the barrel will be blowed out the next shot. What is on ther gun will be wiped off when the gun is cleaned. Surely you ain't gonna eat it. Larry
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  #12  
Old 11-29-2011, 09:30 AM
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The surprising thing would be if smokeless powder technology had NOT improved in the 100+ years since Unique was introduced. To my knowledge in the smokeless powder vein only Bullseye and Unique have been in continuous production for over 100 years. In spite of imporvements they must fill some niche.
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:09 AM
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Stay away from the light loads and use a firm crimp and it works just fine.
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:23 AM
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Smoke can't always be blamed on the powder.
Lube, crimp, and load have allot to do with it also.

I never got allot of smoke and soot with Unique in my 45 Colt loads but, I get substantially less since I've started using White Label's Carnuba Red and Ranch Dog Outdoors' collet style Lee Factory Crimp Die. Even in my "light" 8 grain Unique over 255 grain RNFP loads.

I have a bunch of bullets that I pan lubed with a mix of Orange Magic and Bag Balm that I made up. Using the same load of Unique, bullets, and crimp even those smoke and soot more than with the exact same loads using Carnuba Red.

If Unique bothers you that much do what others do. Switch out Unique for Universal grain for grain. Universal does meter better than Unique but for me at least I don't see too much difference soot and smoke wise with the new crimp die and lube.

I still prefer Unique "Flaming Dirt" especially for lighter loads, I get some unburned powder with light loads of Universal. Unique is a few bucks cheaper per pound too.
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  #15  
Old 11-29-2011, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan Bob View Post
Stay away from the light loads and use a firm crimp and it works just fine.
+1 on that. Unique is well used because it covers sooo many calibers. It's at it's best with mid to max loads. Faster powders like Bullseye or Clays for light plinking loads. Just my .02 for what it's worth.
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  #16  
Old 11-29-2011, 12:25 PM
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Unique can advertise "smokeless," I can now smoke less as Unique provides me with enough everytime I shoot.
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  #17  
Old 11-29-2011, 12:42 PM
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Funny, but I've been reloading with Unique for 40 years, and have yet to have to "step out from behind a cloud of smoke." I think all of the "smoke", is blowing in your story. There are a ton of things to complain about, but Unique isn't one of them.

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  #18  
Old 11-29-2011, 01:09 PM
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Ive been watching ya here.
one thing that jumps out to me is that your new to this roll your own ammo thing and a bit head strong as well. which is made evident in past charge weights on the edge of nuclear fission
in your unique load, I get this sneaky suspicion that it is a lead bullet of some sort while all loads youve compared to it were jacketed ... fess up, thats how we make progress.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
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...thats how we make progress.
Progress, smogress....I just want to shoot somethin'.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:27 PM
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Unique is a good powder which will work in just about any handgun cartridge....is it the best choice for every cartridge....probably not. It can be dirty in light loads but bump it up a bit and it'll burn with a lot less smoke. If I could have only one powder for handgun loading it would be my choice bar none.
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  #21  
Old 11-29-2011, 01:55 PM
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Default AKA "Flaming dirt"

But works well. i use Universal when i can find it.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlFH View Post
Funny, but I've been reloading with Unique for 40 years, and have yet to have to "step out from behind a cloud of smoke." I think all of the "smoke", is blowing in your story. There are a ton of things to complain about, but Unique isn't one of them.

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You got 99 problems but Unique ain't one...?
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:55 PM
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Other than the fact that it doesn't meter that great in my Dillon press, it works fine for me.

I get variation of -0.1 to +0.2 sometimes +0.3 grains and allow for that in my charge selection, but at the distances I shoot, 15-25 yards most of the time, I get great accuracy in 38 spl and 45 ACP.
It is a little smoky, but so what? I have considered going to 231 for metering reasons, but I have so much unique it won't be for a LONG time.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:38 PM
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Well I hate Blue Dot! So there

Finally used up the last of a 1lb container.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:32 PM
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I am currently loading 9mm with unique and there is no smoke what-so-ever, and excellent accuracy, and since it fills the case there is no chance of a double charge. 2400, and your other powder will not work at all for 9mm. So each powder has its correct application.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
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Well I hate Blue Dot! So there

Finally used up the last of a 1lb container.
Huh ... whats wrong with blue dot?
Ive got some excellent cast 30-06 loads burning this stuff, between that and 12G buckshot and slugs I go though it like water
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:52 PM
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Huh ... whats wrong with blue dot?
Ive got some excellent cast 30-06 loads burning this stuff, between that and 12G buckshot and slugs I go though it like water

I don't know. I felt like hating something. I don't like Unique either, only because of it's metering but I still use it.

It's OK for full magnums, might be good for shotguns as you say but I don't load them. Spits out unburned particles in handgun loads.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:23 PM
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O brother.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
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I don't know. I felt like hating something. I don't like Unique either, only because of it's metering but I still use it.

It's OK for full magnums, might be good for shotguns as you say but I don't load them. Spits out unburned particles in handgun loads.
yeah its at its best in heavy scattergun loads for sure, I never found a good place for blue dot in magnums as either unique or 2400 delivered the results I was looking for, so Ill give you that.
I was rather amazed to see it perform so admirably in the 06 lead project though.
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:28 PM
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For those that don't think that Unique CAN cause smoke, just look at these loads:
(Click to watch)


Blame it on the Unique if you want. It is what was causing the "burning" in these 9mm cartridges. Now, as far as the smoke, it was NOT what was causing that. What caused the smoke was too small of a bullet, too soft of a lube, and too light of a load in the WRONG gun. (I dearly loved that Sig P226 though!) Never could get that gun to shoot lead worth a hoot.


Earl, I didn't step out from behind the cloud, but it could have been quite possible that I might have shot better had I done that!
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:40 PM
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Located in the Ballistics Laboratory of Alliant Powder is a jug of water which contains a batch of Unique powder that was produced in 1899. Periodically, a small sample is withdrawn, dried and test fired. After 102 years, it still meets the current specifications for Unique.

One of the first "smokeless" powders available. How amazing is it that it is still the preferred powder for tens of thousands of reloaders! I think one of the reasons it is used across a broad spectrum of calibers and loads is that it has been tested for those 100 years in just about everything that shoots.

Too bad that some of the more modern powders have very limited published loads available. I don't think powder companies are willing to do the extensive testing that is required. Clays, E-3, and many other clean burning powders might be just as efficient if the right load research could be done by the manufacturers. Better them than risking blowing up your prized revolver for the sake of research.
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  #32  
Old 11-29-2011, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug.38PR View Post
Like, ow my gaaash, this powder, like, really suuucks. I mean, like, really this is just, like, really dirty powder. Couldn't they, like, make a powder that, like, didn't, like pollute the air and dirty my, like, gun so much? I mean the, like, second hand ssmowke is, like, dangerous. This should be a, like, smoke-free powder.
OMG Becky, it's like so tubular....

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Old 11-29-2011, 09:26 PM
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Located in the Ballistics Laboratory of Alliant Powder is a jug of water which contains a batch of Unique powder that was produced in 1899. Periodically, a small sample is withdrawn, dried and test fired. After 102 years, it still meets the current specifications for Unique.

One of the first "smokeless" powders available. How amazing is it that it is still the preferred powder for tens of thousands of reloaders! I think one of the reasons it is used across a broad spectrum of calibers and loads is that it has been tested for those 100 years in just about everything that shoots.

Too bad that some of the more modern powders have very limited published loads available. I don't think powder companies are willing to do the extensive testing that is required. Clays, E-3, and many other clean burning powders might be just as efficient if the right load research could be done by the manufacturers. Better them than risking blowing up your prized revolver for the sake of research.
man if only there were a universal receiver test barrels and equipment priced for the common man.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:50 AM
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I try to keep it simple. I only have Unique and 2400 for .357 magnum, .44 magnum, .30 Carbine and 9mm. I cannot confuse the two powders and this simplifies my reloading experience. As others have said Unique is a vesatile powder. I use it for light magnum loadings, both the .357 and the .44.
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Hook686 View Post
I try to keep it simple. I only have Unique and 2400 for .357 magnum, .44 magnum, .30 Carbine and 9mm. I cannot confuse the two powders and this simplifies my reloading experience. As others have said Unique is a vesatile powder. I use it for light magnum loadings, both the .357 and the .44.
I'm in another camp. I feel since reloading is about making the most accurate ammo possible there's no reason not to use the powder best suited for the caliber instead of settling on only 2 powders. I understand those who do but it's not for me...
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  #36  
Old 11-30-2011, 02:03 PM
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I am in another camp altogether! Yeah, you know!

Be that as it may, as a reloader, I want ammo, and lots of it that is adequately accurate. Something that can be mass produced and in a short amount of time. That will make the powder selection for you most of the time.

As a handloader though, I want the most accurate or my special ammo that is not available any other way, case in point: .358 WSSM. You cannot even buy that ammo. When I make it, I don't care if the powder is hard to measure because I am going to weigh each charge on a scale.

So, it kind of depends on what you are going to do with your ammo to. At times, that makes the powder selection for you.

FWIW
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:33 PM
Curt Blunt Curt Blunt is offline
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The other day I was loading 148 HBWC's in 357 mag cases with 3.5 grains of Red Dot. I wasn't till I had finished that I realized that I was looking at my four pound canister of Unigue, not my one pounder of Red Dot. Talk about brain fahrt!

Anyway, I took them to the range last night and I wasn't even aware of any smoke even at the reduced pressure. I think the smoke (and greasy film on the gun) people complain about is from the bullet lubricant. Just my experience.
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:51 PM
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I also find Unique dirty. It's a little better if you load on the hotter side. I only use it when I load hot rounds. Not too hot on the scale but hotter then I would load with W231. I also hated it at first because it didn't meter well at all for me.
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:45 PM
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I shot 50 rounds of .45ACP today. 230 grain lead round nose bullet. 6 grains of Unique. I did not notice any smoke. I use Unique in .357 mag., .44 Special,.45 Colt and .45 ACP and Auto Rim. I am very happy with it. I have never had a problem with smoke.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:44 AM
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One thing I have not seen explicitly addressed in this thread:
Has anybody compared the "new improved" Unique to the older Unique? Is there that much difference?

In fact, is everyone talking about the same Unique, or are some comments about one and some comments about the other?

I have a can of the old stuff I'm trying to use up and an unopened can of the new stuff. I never thought the old stuff was all that dirty, especially if a good crimp is applied to each round.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:19 PM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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well, I'm noticing my other powders (2400 and Power Pistol) are starting to smoke a little too.

I am pretty much reloading over and over the same two dozen cartridges for experimenting apart from the 500 or so reloads I've done on a mass scale for just target shooting.

1) would the using of these cartridges over and over have something to do with the smoking
2) have NEVER since I started reloading used any lubricant. Although the tube and pad are at my table. I was told it wasn't necessary to lube .38 Spl. only if you are reloading rifle such. Could this have something to do with it?
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:26 PM
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No, the brass has nothing to do with it. I can not remember, did you mention what bullets you are using> If lead, it's the lube on the bullets. What primers? Just shoot a empty case with a live primer and see how much junk comes out.

Did you shoot on a day there was a cold snap?? I doubt it was very cold in Louisiana.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:37 PM
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well, the lowest it's been during my shooting is between 35 and 42 degrees
I am using Midway LSWC and Speer LRN bullets. Primers are Winchester Standard Small Pistol
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:19 PM
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Doug,
Are the Speer LRN swagged? Do they have a "criss cross" pattern on the outside of them? Dry lubed?

If so, the smoke you are seeing is from that soft lead and lube. All powders with that combination, well, maybe not Trail Boss, are going to smoke. Just the nature of the beast. If you want to reduce the smoke, get a good cast bullet, one that fits your particular firearm correctly that isn't too hard of soft and run them with 4.5gr of Unique in a 38Spl case, 5.0gr in a 357Mag. I will almost guarantee you that the smoke will go away.
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Old 12-03-2011, 12:44 AM
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What Skip, the casting master just said.
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Old 12-03-2011, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Flash View Post
One thing I have not seen explicitly addressed in this thread:
Has anybody compared the "new improved" Unique to the older Unique? Is there that much difference?

In fact, is everyone talking about the same Unique, or are some comments about one and some comments about the other?

I have a can of the old stuff I'm trying to use up and an unopened can of the new stuff. I never thought the old stuff was all that dirty, especially if a good crimp is applied to each round.
I have actually conducted that test as my old Unique is 20 years old.
The load is 6 grains of Unique under a 240 SWC in 44 Special.
The new Unique is marginally cleaner burning. Less smoke but I
still get unburned flakes on my hands unloading the shells.
Same performance on targets. The only difference I can tell is
the new stuff has more solvent to get high on <j/k>.

I am careful to not leave the powder on my sweaty hands as I have
had nitro headaches from that. Not good. My Dad took nitro and
I studied up on it's effects back then.




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Old 12-03-2011, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Sackett View Post
Doug,
Are the Speer LRN swagged? Do they have a "criss cross" pattern on the outside of them? Dry lubed?

.
No criss cross on Speer (like hornandy) and no sticky lube on speer (also like hornandy) Speers are dry and smooth
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:42 AM
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Like the others have said, it's the lead bullets and the lube they are using causing the excessive smoke you are experiencing. In general, the best way to prove to yourself it's not the powder causing the smoke is to load a FMJ bullet with the same powder to near the same pressures. You will see very little to no smoke from those loads compared to the lead bullets.
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  #49  
Old 12-03-2011, 11:30 AM
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Some of the lead bullets have a "dry" lube. I do not know what it actual is but there is something on there.
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Old 12-03-2011, 12:32 PM
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Rule 3, it is usually micro-crystaline wax.... and it works very well at low to moderate velocities.
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