I've done some successful shotshell reloading in .38 spl and .44 mag using Speer shot capsules. I've also read about forming .45 ACP shotshell cases from rifle cartridges (cut-down .308 brass, for example), in order to create a case profile that mimics a loaded .45 ACP round, to enable reliable cycling in .45 ACP semiautomatic pistols.

However, I wasn't able to find any data on reloading .45 ACP shot cartridges for use in revolvers such as the 625, using plain-jane .45 ACP cases.

Has anyone ever experimented with this?

Thanks,
Lou

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NRA Certified Instructor & RSO

I have done it, but not quite the way some people have done it.

The good thing about using a 625 or any revolver is that a case can be made that can hold shot all the way to the front of the cylinder, and no special forming dies are needed, but you will need a .44 mag/special die set in addition to the .45 ACP die set.

Let me see if I can find my pictures.

Ah...here is one, although it is a bit out of focus....


I tried it with .308 brass first, but I've had better luck with .243 brass, as it seems to fit the moonclips much easier. By easier, I mean I could eventually get them in there! Check any of the brass that you may use for fitment on your moonclips first, as most will be very tight, and will make loading later much harder.

Trim back the rifle cases to a length so that they are just shorter than the front of the cylinder- maybe a tenth of an inch. If it's junk brass that won't be used over once, don't anneal it, but if you plan on reloading it again, anneal it. Then run it through the .45ACP sizing die. For the next step, have the cylinder handy from your revolver- you'll have to run it up into the .44 Magnum sizer so that the top part of the case is sized down far enough so that the case will go into the cylinder all the way, and the "shoulder" stops the case from going in any farther.

Once this is done, do all the cases the same and you are ready to load them with powder, wads and shot. I used the same powder load data that is used for the CCI capsules, but I put a .44 caliber wonder wad over the powder, and fill the rest of the case with shot and top it off with a .410 overshot wad that I use for loading .410 brass shells. I use some of the wife's fingernail polish to seal the overshot wad in with. I figure I'm throwing over twice the amount of shot the capsules do, and I have a much more sturdy case too.

If you partner one of the blank forming dies from CH4D and crimp the end so it looks like .22 crimped shot, you'll have a tough shot cartridge indeed!

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Andy,
Thanks so much for the reply, this is very helpful, especially the photo.

I never would have thought to trim the rifle brass as long as you did - that is brilliant! Takes maximum advantage of the cylinder depth.

Maybe I'll just forget about using .45 ACP brass and sacrifice some '06, .308, or .243 brass. Good tip on checking the moonclip fit FIRST!

Much appreciated,
Lou

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NRA Certified Instructor & RSO

WeckUpToThees!: 45 ACP Shotshell Handloads for Revolvers

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Still Running Against the Wind

If you are going to load the Speer caps in 45acp or 4AR cases for a rev, just add the total weight fo the shot & cup & then use starting data or just above for that. You don't want really high vel, just makes the shot spread more.

Thanks Andy for that writeup.
I have seen an old M1917 revolver that had had the barrel reamed smooth.
Old timer told me that, in the early '50s they would so treat old (cheap) 1917s and convert them into shot revolvers, loading cartridges as yoy describe.
Seens BATF soon rained on that parade!

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Andy,
The old American Rifleman article used a case shortened from 308 Winchester brass using dies made by RCBS. At that time they stated the loads should not be used in revolvers since there was insufficient pressure to force the fired case back on the recoil shield. The resulting primer portrussion thus tended to jam the revolver. Have you had any similar expereince with your shotshells?
Tony

Many years ago I purchased the RCBS dies for making 45ACP shotsheels out of shortened 308 WInchester brass. However I have only used them in a semi auto pistol.
Using 45ACP cases with the Speer shotcups sounds great. Have you noticed any creep of the shotshell after firing two or three shotshell rounds in the revolver? I assume the primers do not portrude from the base of the case after firing.

Tony,
I'll let Andy answer your question regarding his shotshells and any experience he may have had with primer protrusion. In my own experience with my .44mag reloading using Speer's round ball "gallery" loads (from Speer reloading manual #11), primer protrusion can be an issue with very low power loads. These round lead ball loads used 2.9gr of Bullseye (I can't recall the weight of the round lead balls right now), and I was having a lot of problems with primers creeping out and jamming up the works. I gave up on those loads. However, it was fun to actually watch the round balls fly to the target! Kind of like shooting a Red Ryder BB gun in the sun, and seeing your BB's fly in the sunshine!

I would imagine that using the load data for the CCI shot capsules, as Andy says he did, would probably provide enough "oomph" to prevent creeping primers.

Lou

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NRA Certified Instructor & RSO

Yes, I did find primers backing out on some of the cases, but not all. These loads are very low pressure.

I haven't loaded these things in a long time, and had almost forgotten about that- I solved it by making the flash hole a bit larger- but only a small amount. I can't tell you which size drill I used though.

I've been loading .410's for handgun use since I got one and haven't loaded any more of these.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

try .45 Win mag cases to form the shotshell brass. perfect length and easier to form.
I have the rcbs die set and could give some tips if you're interested.

The problem I have when loading .45 Colt shot capsules into ACP and AR brass is I can not crimp the plastic capsule hard enough without breaking it so that they can withstand the recoil of the previous cartridge. They work just fine one at a time, but if I put two in the cylinder, the recoil from the first will cause the second to jump the crimp and protrude through the front of the cylinder and tie up the gun. I found this out the hard way when I got a bad hit on a sick skunk. Fortunately it was too sick to shoot back.

I tried the method with cut down .243 brass and the .44 Magnum sizer, but I do not get the pronounced shoulder as in the pic. Am I missing something? The finished product is a case with a straight taper, but there is no shoulder.

Dave Sinko

I've been kicking this idea around for my 1917 as well.

What is the general consensus comparing the extra effort of using shortened .308 (.30-06, .243, etc) over the fragility of the Speer shot capsules?

I've also read about opening up the flash hole to prevent primer back out. I'll see if I can find the reference I had that listed the drill bit size.

David

Many yhears ago, the American Rifleman published an article on 45ACP shotloads using a shortened 308 Winchester case, and a cut down Remington plastic 410 wad. In purchased the forming and reloading die set from RCBS at that time, formed 50 cases and never completed the project - still on my to do list. As I remeber the article cautioned against using those loads in a revolver since primer setback could tie up the cylinder.

I have the RCBS die set and use it with .308 Win brass. For the revolver, I cut the cases to the cylinder length to get the most shot. I use Winchester 410 shotshell wads cut to fit the loaded round. They are capped with a gascheck or paper wad that is glued in place. The /45 ACP dies and .44 Mag die would work.

planojack,
Cutting those shortend 308 cases to cylinder length is a great idea. I'll have to give it a try.

Step 1 deprime cases
step 2 lube case form and cut off I used a power jig saw and file
step 3 clean off lube
step 4 face case to 1.195 I used forster trimmer with a .400
pilot 3 out of 100 pilot wouldn't fit pilot
used .400 reamer have to be .400 ID or 410 wad won't fit
step 5 deburr inside and outside of case mouth
step 6 anneal case if you want to reload
these are formed below factory annealing
clean
step 7 tumble
step 8 check primer cup and flash hole for tumbling media
step 9 prime large pistol
step 10 powder 6.2 grains of of winchester 231
and insert 410 wad tap with plastic hammer
and dowell 5/16 dia
step 11 I used a piece of delrin rod turned to .320 dia
horizontal in vice and a box cutter to cut off petals of
wad
step 12 fill wad with 110 grains of number 8 shot or to the
top of wad.
step 13 place a 35 caliber gas check flat side up on shot
column seat wad and form case

you can use .005 thick acetate punched to .400 dia with clear
fingernail polish for top wad

you can also use wax for top wad

I used the gas check to get constant pressure to operate
1911 action

I used 308 winchester RP cases
you can make these out of several different cases
308 cases have the largest extractor groove for 1911
extractors

45 shot shells cases
30-06
8X57
7X57
.270Win
.280 Rem
6mm Rem
.243 Win
.308 Winchester Best for your extractor

MAX case length 1.2
large pistol primer
6.2 grains of W-W231
4.5 grains of 700X
6.0 grains Bullseye ?
7.0 grains unique ?
Use Lee #069 dipper to measure 110 grains of No. 9, 8 or 7-1/2 shot.

RCBS still lists them on the Special Order Catalog.
Current, online list prices:
$161.95 RCBS # 56552 45 ACP Shotshell, group H
$ 96.95 RCBS # 58378 45 ACP Shotshell from .308 Win, group H trim&form die
$ 12.95 Extended Shell Holder - 1 1/4" Long (No provision for depriming or priming)

For 45 Colt shot shells, I trim 460 S&W brass to 1.51". Full length size in 45 Colt die. Using a 44-40 die form a neck' so case will clear cylinder throat. Prime with standard large pistol primer. 6.7gr WW231 with 45 caliber over powder card (I use cork BP cards, but milk carton cards will work). 1/2 ounce #7.5 shot and same card over shot. Seal mouth, wax won't hold up, haven't tried finger nail polish. I use aluminum gutter seam sealer (I buy it at Lowe's in squeeze tubes) allow 7-10 days to cure (or cleaning becomes a 1 hour task). Results 750-800 fps, 12" even pattern at 10" from 6.5 " revolver. A friend used one shot on a W.Va. copperhead, and reported he had never seen a snake so torn up (this is due to larger shot size and almost double shot quantity). Save empties and reload, the most difficult thing is getting cases to length to start with. NOTE; the over powder card should be seated with a unsharpened pencil or wood dowel- no sparks is real important! Ivan

I don't see why anyone uses the shot cups, never had any good luck with those things. I use this method and it's worked great for me.
44 Magnum Shotshells
I use some 445 supermag brass and neck down to fit the cylinder for 44 Mag. This should work great for your necked down 45 ACP rds. I use no. 12 shot in mine with 8 grs 231.

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5

WOW! I did this same thing many years ago. Worked fine. Still....after about 10 feet from the muzzle the pattern was gone. Still have the cutdown .308's in the moon clips in my loading room. In restrospect end result not worth the effort.
If I wanted 45 shotloads I'd just by the crimped Blazers and be happy.

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S&W Accumulator

I reloaded my own .45ACP shotshells for several years. I used 7.62 GI brass and cut it off. RCBS makes both special reloading dies for shotshells and also case forming dies for shotshells from rifle brass. At the time I bought mine they weren't too expensive but I'm willing to bet they are now. I used .410 wads, 700x powder and #9 shot. They worked fine. I started doing that in the 70's. However, these days CCI sells aluminum cased shotshells in nearly every caliber one could want and so to reload them is an exercise that is hardly worth the effort. The only handgun shotshells I consider worth the effort to reload are .41 mag and a friend does that and I use the ones he has come up with when I need them. I have .45, .44, .38, .22 and .22 mag that I have purchased and just take them with me when needed. It's a heck of a lot easier.

Speer books have data for revolver shot shells. Even though your case is different (being ACP) I'm pretty sure the loads will be about that same.

One nice thing is that Speer recommends lighter loads in order to produce better patterns. Higher loads deteriorate the pattern. They also have shot size recommendations. I think with a .45 you can go as big as #7 shot.

Speer sells shot shell components for revolvers. Just get a bag of shot and off you go.

Been there, done that, same disappointing results and conclusion.

I suggest that if you simply MUST shoot shot shells in a revolver, just get one of the hated Judge/Governor revolvers and be done with it. The .410 is (edited to read "fecal matter"), especially in a handgun, but is light years ahead of any shot shells that fit into a standard 44 or 45 cylinder.

I lived in the country for the past 15 years. The log house had a porch all the way around it and the copperheads loved it.
The 38 CCI shotshells never failed to kill one with one shot.
I had used the Speer capsules in 38 brass but it was hard to get them to all chamber.
The first package of ten CCI's I bought were marked $3.45. The last were $14.95.

Many years ago I received the RCBS forming and loading dies for Christmas. I've used 'em once.

I used 7.62 blanks as the base - they were already primed.

I topped the shot load with a 000 buckshot, instead of a gascheck or an overshot card. Made my own "Malay Loads".

They would not cycle in my Gold Cup. Shot fine in my Blackhawk convertible, and were a real pain getting into and then back out of the clips for my '37 Brasilian.

I, pretty much, decided they weren't worth it, especially after I sold the Blackhawk.

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I always take precautions

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV