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12-07-2011, 05:16 PM
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Does Anyone Use WW296 Anymore?
Over 30 years ago I used to shoot Hunters Pistol Silhouette and reloaded a lot and cast bullets. One of my best shooting and accurate loads for my S&W 27---8-3/8 bbl. was RCBS 162 gr. LCSWC and 15 gr. WW-296 ball powder. It was very accurate in my gun and not quite as dirty as 2400 powder. I am thinking about doing some reloading and was wondering what was being used now. I don't see WW296 mentioned here very much. Maybe some of you reloaders out there have got some new ideas on powders that you like to use. I know there are some new powders on the market since then.
James
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12-07-2011, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Does Anyone Use WW296 Anymore?
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YOU BETCHA!
When the waltz ends and you want your magnum revolver to rock and roll (for me, 6" bbl and longer). I've tried most of the new powders and keep winding up back at HP38/WIN231 and WIN296/H110 for revolvers. Longshot does not ring my bell, don't need 2400 for what I do, won't pay the V powders price.
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12-07-2011, 06:02 PM
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Um, YEP! Only most of the time it is from the H110 canisters!
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12-07-2011, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Sackett
Um, YEP! Only most of the time it is from the H110 canisters!
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Better check with your Marine buddy to see which one is better
But yes Sophie, W 296/H110 is still the Mag powder along with 2400.
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12-07-2011, 06:52 PM
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Also works good in 2 1/2 in. .410 shells. Larry
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12-07-2011, 06:56 PM
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W296 is a thing of the past. The new powerhouse in magnum pistol is H110!
Just kidding. H110/W296 is a great powder. Alliant tried to one-up it with 300-MP, but it doesn't seem like they've been successful.
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12-07-2011, 06:57 PM
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In my experience, and in what the manufacturer says, very slight changes in components can make a huge difference in pressure. I used to use 296, but the fact that it was so touchy really bothered me. I quit using it and went to 2400 and never went back. YMMV.
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12-07-2011, 07:01 PM
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Can you explain "touchy"?
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12-07-2011, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Does anyone use WW296 anymore?
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Without a doubt. IMO W296 is the best full power magnum pistol powder on the market. I use it all the time for full power rounds and with heavy bullets. I use HS-6 for lighter loads and even W231 for very light loads. I was using 2400 for a while but I didn't like the results especially with heavy bullets. Luil'Gun is also an option when used in ammo meant for a Carbine.
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12-07-2011, 07:33 PM
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I use 296, but recently started using 2400, which has more applications for my loads.
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12-07-2011, 07:38 PM
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12-07-2011, 08:54 PM
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I use it for my M1 Carbine and it works great !
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12-07-2011, 09:00 PM
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Sure, it has a place above my bench.
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12-07-2011, 11:08 PM
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Oh yeah!! 357 compressed load is all you could ever want oh and .30 carbine too. I forgot T/C or Ruger 45 colt jacketed buffalo stompers too.
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12-08-2011, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Sackett
Can you explain "touchy"?
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Yes. Quoting myself, "...very slight changes in components can make a huge difference in pressure."
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12-08-2011, 01:39 AM
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H110/W296 is not touchy. People only get in trouble when they think they know better than the manufacturer and use reduced charges with incorrect primers. I have worked into +P territory with W296 in 44 magnum, it behaves linearly and predictably.
H110/W296 might actually be considered safer in the sense that a maximum charge usually fills the case right up to the bullet. Small charges of fast powder hide down in those large cases. You can drop one, two, three charges of fast powder and it still won't overflow the case in certain cartridges.
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12-08-2011, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
Yes. Quoting myself, "...very slight changes in components can make a huge difference in pressure."
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Touchy? Okay, but I have not noticed that in any of the loads I have used this powder in. In fact, that is why I use it for the loads I do. It seems to be kind of forgiving at the upper end of things. Not that you cannot get flattened primers or sticky extraction with it, I just never have and like Dragon, I have loaded some mighty stiff 44Mag loads for a carbine.
Since firearms are individuals, maybe yours react as your post states, mine don't seem to.
Caution to another loader is a good thing, just with H110/W296, I like the fact that a maximum load comes right to the base of the bullet and at that point, gives consistent performance. Touchy to me is when you go from "4.2gr" of a powder to "4.3gr" of the same powder with the same components and you get vastly different results. Flattened primers, sticky extraction, wide swings on the chronograph and the like. W296/H110 does not do that. If you are using "21.5gr" and everything is okay, and go to "21.6gr" things are going to be a bit different but not drastically. Now, going to "23.5gr", if you can get it in the case, is going to give you vastly different results, but that would be expected by most folks and not considered "touchy".
It is kind of like describing "sticky extraction". One person thinks it is when you have to use a lot of thumb pressure on the ejector rod, another believes that it is only when you have to drive them out with the edge of the table or a mallet.
Touchy and W296/H110 are not two words that I use to in the same sentence ever.
FWIW
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12-08-2011, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coal Man
Oh yeah!! 357 compressed load is all you could ever want oh and .30 carbine too. I forgot T/C or Ruger 45 colt jacketed buffalo stompers too.
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John Linebaugh is a master at those 45 Colt loads! I use his as well for my Ruger 45 Convertible. A 280gr LSWC @ 1400fps is an impressive round, to say the least. On both ends of the firearm as a matter of fact!
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12-08-2011, 07:11 AM
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I use W296 for full power loads in 44 mag revolvers or in my Ruger #3
carbine. I have gone a bit above published max loads for use in the
strong #3 only. I prefer W296 for loads in my Marlin 357 mag carbine
with jacketed bullets but still prefer 2400 for 357 revolver loads.
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12-08-2011, 07:44 AM
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My favorite powder(I use the H110 label also). Meters flawlessly, clean burn, accurate, fills the case, etc.
sophie, if I were you I would go right back to it and not bother looking at other powders.
Andy
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12-08-2011, 01:09 PM
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I also use it in my M1 carbine.
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12-08-2011, 02:00 PM
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Sophie, no one seems to have given you the basic answer. Today, H-110 and W296 are the SAME powder. You may or may not be able to find 296 anymore but that doesnt matter - H-110 is the same thing.
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12-08-2011, 03:56 PM
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Winchester's components catalog reads (or at least used to);
"Do not reduce powder charges with 296. These loads must be used exactly as shown. A reduction in charge or change in components can cause dangerous pressures".
Now that, my friends, is touchy! Standard reloading safety procedures recommend reducing powder charges whenever any component is changed, and then slowly working up again. Winchester says not to do that.
Winchester gave (gives?) exact specifications for loading 296, and warns against changing any components. 296 can provide excellent results, but unless you are willing to use the exact brand of bullet, case, and primer, you should probably avoid using 296, at least if you adhere to the manufacture's warning. I did listen to what they said and realized that 296 was not for me; I like to experiment, use cast lead bullets and change other components. I do not claim to know more than the manufacturer, so I avoid 296.
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12-08-2011, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
I like to experiment, use cast lead bullets and change other components.
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You can do all of that with H110/W296, is seems you are misunderstanding their statement. The minimum charge listed in their data is your starting charge, and use a magnum primer. That's it.
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12-08-2011, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
Winchester's components catalog reads (or at least used to);
"Do not reduce powder charges with 296. These loads must be used exactly as shown. A reduction in charge or change in components can cause dangerous pressures".
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The above statement is shown in the Winchester Reloading Components Manuals that I have from 1975 through 1994 (I have some but certainly not all years) My 2003 edition says to see the Note on page 31 for all 296 loads. The note on Page 31 reads:Loads using 296 powder require heavy bullet pull (heavy crimp. Using 296 powder with light bullet pull (light crimp) may result in squib loads and cause damage to the firearm, shooter, and/or bystanders.
Thus by 2003 Winchester was not as adamant about using only the stipulated components for 296 loads.
My 2004 Hodgdon Basic Reloaders Manual says not to reduce the H110 loads more than 3%. The 2011 Hodgdon book doesn't have this statement but the difference between minimum and maximum loads varies from about 10% for 357 Magnum 158 gr XTP or the 270 gr Speer GDSP in 44 Magnum down to 4% for the 240 gr Nosler JHP also in 44 Magnum.
I spot checked some loads in Lyman 48 and they seem to adhere to the small 3-4% spread of the Hornady book whereas Speer Edition V has a spread more like the 10% we are used to seeing.
This just tells us again that data from different sources is different and even from the same source can change over time. So try to use several references that are timely when deciding What your starting and finishing loads will be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
so I avoid 296.
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Warren, no that is not touchy, they are parameters.
Do you know what kind of pressures happen when you reduce loads with this powder?
It isn't higher pressure friend, but lower. When you have lower pressures with this powder, you get squibs. If you run a second round after a squib, then you can have some real trouble.
Understanding the problems with the powder is very important. This is one of those places where a little bit of knowledge is more dangerous than a lot of knowledge.
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12-08-2011, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman
My favorite powder(I use the H110 label also). Meters flawlessly, clean burn, accurate, fills the case, etc.
sophie, if I were you I would go right back to it and not bother looking at other powders.
Andy
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Funny, that's just what I advise...only it's 2400 not H-110/W296.
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12-09-2011, 12:34 AM
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I've switched to Accurate 4100 as my magnum pistol powder. It can be downloaded, doesn't need a magnum primer, very versatile and performs great.
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12-09-2011, 03:23 AM
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I still use W296 in 44 Magnum loads. I have developed my own
loads with it, just making sure they were near or at full pressure.
26 grains under a 200 grain XTP and with a CCI 350 primer
yields excellent results in all my magnums.
I bought a large canister awhile ago (like 20 years) and am still
working on it. As far as I can tell it performs identically to what it
did when new.
---
Nemo
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12-09-2011, 03:26 AM
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I use H110 and standard primers..more flexibility.
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12-09-2011, 12:40 PM
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I've had excellent results with H110 in 44 Mag and 357 Mag --- loaded close to or at max. I prefer 2400 in 44 Special --- fairly heavily loaded (1050 fps w/250 grain WLNGC in a 4 5/8" barrel).
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12-09-2011, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parisite
I've switched to Accurate 4100 as my magnum pistol powder. It can be downloaded, doesn't need a magnum primer, very versatile and performs great.
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How much slower than AA#9 is 4100? What kind of performance does it deliver compared to other magnum powders you have used? Please post more information on 4100. I have thought about trying it but didn't know anything about it. Do you know if it's anything like IMR4227?
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12-10-2011, 03:57 PM
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I know they're the same powder , and that Hodgdon is the distributor for both , but for whatever reason , whenever I see W-296 and H-110 on the shelf , the Winchester branded product is almost always $1.00 more per 1lb container.
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12-11-2011, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD
How much slower than AA#9 is 4100? What kind of performance does it deliver compared to other magnum powders you have used? Please post more information on 4100. I have thought about trying it but didn't know anything about it. Do you know if it's anything like IMR4227?
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I have read, and studying load data leads me to believe also that AA4100 is the same powder as Ramshot Enforcer but I have not visually observed Enforcer powder. I do know that Accurate and Ramshot are both owned by Western powders. From my experience I believe 4100's burn rate to be a tad slower than #9 and noticably faster and much better performance than 4227 especially in 44 Mag. 4227 very nearly catches it in performance in the 500 S&W Mag however. It burns quite cool in comparison to other mag powders with low flash and is the finest grained powder I've ever seen and heavy for volume. If a person wanted to hot rod magnum pistol cartridges you would have a bit of room to do so with this powder. It also seems to burn clean if you want to download it a few full grains and no need for magnum primers. I've even tried it in 38 Spl. and 9mm, just not very cost effective that way. I like it.
Last edited by bluetopper; 12-11-2011 at 02:11 AM.
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12-16-2011, 12:12 PM
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I have not been on the forum since I inquired about the WW296 powder and started this discussion.
I have a bad infection virus in my desktop and havent been able to get rid of it. I am on a different computer.
Thanks everyone for the opinions of WW296 and 2400 powders.
Lots of good people on this forum and lot of good info on reloading.
I think I will just go to reloading what worked for me quite a few years ago as far as powders go and do appreciate all the feedback I received from the forum members.
Thanks and Merry Christmas.
James
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12-16-2011, 07:57 PM
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I use 23 grains of W296 under 240 grain XTPs in my Super Redhawk 44 mag with 9 1/2 inch barrel for deer hunting here in Missouri. The bucks don't know what hit them when I put one in the boiler room. Never had a lick of a problem with this load for many years now and I shoot a couple hundred rounds a month at the range with this load and it is very accurate, consistant and reliable.
LD
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12-17-2011, 01:47 AM
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Absolutely! W296/H-110 is my favorite powder for serious loads in .357 Mag, .44 Mag and .45 Colt.
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12-17-2011, 02:41 AM
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Just bought another 4 lb. keg. Great for my 357, 44 mag.
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12-18-2011, 01:05 AM
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My first choice for .44mag and .30 carbine.
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12-18-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parisite
I have read, and studying load data leads me to believe also that AA4100 is the same powder as Ramshot Enforcer but I have not visually observed Enforcer powder. I do know that Accurate and Ramshot are both owned by Western powders. From my experience I believe 4100's burn rate to be a tad slower than #9 and noticeably faster and much better performance than 4227 especially in 44 Mag. 4227 very nearly catches it in performance in the 500 S&W Mag however. It burns quite cool in comparison to other mag powders with low flash and is the finest grained powder I've ever seen and heavy for volume. If a person wanted to hot rod magnum pistol cartridges you would have a bit of room to do so with this powder. It also seems to burn clean if you want to download it a few full grains and no need for magnum primers. I've even tried it in 38 Spl. and 9mm, just not very cost effective that way. I like it.
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Thank you for the information. You may be right about Enforcer and 4100. Commonly owned companies have done it before and will continue to do it. Checking the both sites tells me both are made in Belgium as opposed to the USA for all the other Accurate powders. I see all the Ramshot handgun powders are made in Belgium other than Silhouette which is made at the St. Mark's plant. (Winchester WAP anyone?)
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12-18-2011, 06:49 PM
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I use H110 for my Marlin 1894SS .44 mag. After reading an article by Brian Pearce in a recent Handloader magazine about Alliants Power Pro 300MP powder, I've been giving it a real hard look. Mr. Pearce spoke very highly of this powder. The other great thing (at least IMHO it's great) is it don't require the use of a magnum primer, and it was producing some astounding velocities. Once I use up my last bit of H110 I plan on giving it a try.
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12-18-2011, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 336A
I use H110 for my Marlin 1894SS .44 mag. After reading an article by Brian Pearce in a recent Handloader magazine about Alliants Power Pro 300MP powder, I've been giving it a real hard look. Mr. Pearce spoke very highly of this powder. The other great thing (at least IMHO it's great) is it don't require the use of a magnum primer, and it was producing some astounding velocities. Once I use up my last bit of H110 I plan on giving it a try.
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I read the same article and it sparked my interest too. But, I also read another article recently (sorry, I forgot which magazine) that reported their tests were unimpressive. In that article they said there was no advantage using the new powder over the current powders. Also, I think there was a thread on this forum recently reporting unimpressive results too. Who know until you actually try it yourself.
Is it any cheaper than W296/H110, AA#9 or some of the others?
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01-14-2012, 01:49 AM
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I LOVE w296 / H110 for 357 and 44 magnum
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01-14-2012, 08:36 AM
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Yep, still a great powder.
Although...for some applications I found that I like Lil'Gun better. I know there is some controversy about barrel erosion with it, but fixed breech guns like T/C Contenders shouldn't be an issue if you are worried about it. In a 45 Colt Blackhawk with heavy for caliber bullets, I'm not particularly worried either. Barrels can be had ... if anything ever does develop. It can push a heavy bullet quite well.
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01-14-2012, 06:55 PM
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Have heard about the forcing cone/barrel erosion issue also and wondered if anyone would mention it. I would keep an eye on it if I were burning lots of 110.
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01-16-2012, 11:26 AM
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OH YA!! 340 grain WFNLGC self cast big dogs in my 45 colt, 454 and 460 all say take me to the top while I drill the same whole!! H110/296 don't mater when I want a real fast and accurate load's in my 357, with 175 grain cast SWC's or 158 to 180 grain jackets, feed em 296/H110, it don't matter, 2400 might be as accurate, but it won't give as high a velocity without scary pressures. By the way Hogdon and Winchester lead the way with the best light load powders in them cases also, its called HP38/WW231, and that's the rest of the story! Good Day!
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01-16-2012, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titegroups
Have heard about the forcing cone/barrel erosion issue also and wondered if anyone would mention it. I would keep an eye on it if I were burning lots of 110.
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I must not be burning enough up. I have had no barrel throat
erosion that I can see. Very minor top strap "etching" as it is
not enough to call it a "cut". This is with guns I have had and
shot for almost 30 years. Gone through maybe 10 pounds of W296
in that time. Shot through 3 guns. 2x629 and a Redhawk.
I had the throat recut on my 4" 629 Mountain Revolver so it
is much smoother than it once was. It wasn't eroded at all.
Most of my shooting is with Unique/Universal and cast bullets.
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Nemo
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01-16-2012, 06:49 PM
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That's one gun in stainless shot by one person. I've seen more than one incidence contrary to yours with clear pictures by reputable people. There are way too many variables for single case to be the end all. Thats just your result.
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01-16-2012, 07:21 PM
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Nemo,
How did you get those excellent pics ?
What camera and lighting ?
Looks great
__________________
NRA Life
USPSA/IPSC
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01-16-2012, 07:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Princeton IN
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I like Accurate no-7 no-9 and some no-5
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Tags
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340, 357 magnum, 44 magnum, 629, carbine, chronograph, colt, crimp, ejector, hornady, nosler, primer, rcbs, redhawk, ruger, silhouette, universal, winchester |
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