When reloading for both the revolver and the semi auto, which one will handle the hotest round?

What would be a good round for both guns?

Thanks in advance for you advice.

I use Alliant data with a lead round nose 230 grain bullet and Unique powder. I shoot both in Colt Gold Cup and Colt New Service. I don't go for hottest, but this load shoots nice in both guns and is near a factory loading.

I have a couple of 625's and three 1911's. The revolver will handle heavier loads than is wise with the auto pistol. This is more of a recoil battering problem with heavier bullets in the 1911 than it is a pressure problem.

My favorite load for both platforms is a target load of 4.0 grs of Bullseye (or equivalent) behind a Mihec home cast clone of the H&G #68 (200 gr long nose SWC). This bullet can be safely be driven to 1000 fps in either platform. This combination (either velocity) shoots under 1" at 25 yards from the 625's or the two match 1911's.

My heavy bullet load for the revolver is a NOE home cast clone of the Lyman 454424 (250 gr Keith bullet) ahead of 7.0 grs of Unique for just over 900 fps. This should do nicely for most any use the .45 Auto Rim is suited for (up to and including deer at reasonable ranges):



Dale53

Damn Dale53, those are some nice looking bullets !!

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regards....roger (no sig)

I don't know, as I've never reloaded any "hot" .45 ACP loads- just accurate and good looking ones.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Just think of how much he had to pay them for their modeling fees!

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Still Running Against the Wind

For many years the standard reply was "revolver" for heaviest .45 ACP loads. People have loaded some stompers into their .45 wheelguns but I do not believe that the conventional wisdom was correct. The Auto loader is actually likely the stronger platform IF the barrel/feed ramp portion of the chamber is not overly relieved. Ultimately I don't think it matters that much-Top end 45 ACP loads are enough for most purposes. If you want to push performance without boosting pressures the revolver will permit longer overall lengths/less deep seating for a bit of performance gain.
Dale53 those are some beauties!

The latest Sierra manual has a separate listing for ".45ACP-Revolver" loads! There are some seriously hot loads listed for bullets all the way up to their 240 gr JHP. That is the heaviest JHP I can find with a cannelure. I am loading for my 625 Mountain Gun, both AR and ACP rounds and strongly recommend getting the new book if you want strong loads for your wheel gun. Good luck.

Colonel,
That 45ACP revolver, if it is one of the newer M625 or M25, will handle ANYTHING you can dish it.

I have a load that will deliver a 240gr bullet, lswc to be exact, from a 4" barrel @ 1100fps. Now that is a heavy load.

I also have run my clone of an RCBS 45-270SAA our of it at 800fps. Now THAT is a handful!

The heavy recoil of those bullets would beat a semi-automatic to death in quick order unless you modify it with springs and such. Not worth the effort in my opinion.

There are custom shops that convert a M625, and they don't do any heat treating or anything else other than ream the chambers, to 460 Rowland, even the 45 Win Mag. Both of those loads run into the 40,000psi range.

One thing really nice about the 45ACP and a revolver, there is no way to blow one up with slow powder. You cannot get enough in the case, seat a bullet and have enough in there to have a pressure problem.

For a time, there was a load out there for a 45AR round that threw a 255gr bullet at 800fps or so using AA#9 as a powder. 12 or 13gr if I remember correctly. That load was full up to the base of the bullet. Case in point.

If you want to experiment, get a subscription to loaddata.com. There are loads there from Handloader magazine that have really eeked all of the performance out of the round and a revolver.

Hope this helps.

If I recall correctly, the .460 Rowland can be put on either platform, just not an alloy framed 1911. 460 Rowland Conversion Kits for your 1911 That says they are both strong enough, but springs will have to be changed on the 1911.

I find it curious that the .45 Acp Smiths are deemed safe for the .460 Rowland. I think that it was John Linebaugh who cautioned against loading the Mod. 25 (.45 Colt) beyond 25kpsi due to Frame stretching. Perhaps the heat treatment protocols have changed ...

Actually, his 45 Colt loads are much higher than 25,000psi. He loads for the same impact as a 44Mag @ 40,000psi which he told me was about 32,000psi in the 45 Colt. It has to do with the amount of surface on the base of the two bullets.


FWIW

Related question:
Is there any difference in the case web strength of .45 Auto Rim cases vs. .45 ACP cases?

FWIW some guys claim better accuracy from .45 Auto revolvers using the rimmed cases. Makes sense to me but I haven't proved the point. I like using the Auto Rim cases for my revolvers so that it's easy to tell which are loaded for a 1911 and which for a 1917.

From everything I've read the 45 ACP and 45 AR cases are exactly the same but for the rim.

As for a good load for both the 1911 and revolver, I use the same load for all .45 Auto ammo. I charge 5.5gr W231 under any 230gr bullet. That has always been a good accurate load for me.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Skip, We are both right.....check out this article by Mr. Linebaugh. 32kPsi is safe in the Smiths but is frame stressing and shoots then loose.
Gunnotes...Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5

Tree,
I have the data from that article stapled to a shelf above my old reloading table!

Here is a load for you!
On a good day, I would NEVER shoot this in a Smith, period. Now my Ruger 45 Convertible? Oh, yeah!

Obviously the Ruger Blackhawk can handle hotter loads than the 1911. The question is why would you want to. I shot some surplus powder loads in a 1911 and did not like the velocities as they were 150 fps over what the person posted them to be. One shot was enough in the 1911 and the rest were shot in the Blackhawk. I think a 200 gr bullett @ 1100 fps is safe for my Bhawk but not something I want to use in my Kimber.

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Front sight and squeeze

Never exceed published load data. That is just common sense.

My 1917 revolver is old, and my 1911 is old. They shoot factory ammo, which is as hot as necessary.

If you want a .44 Magnum, get a revolver.

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Fuego

He didn't pay them anything ! In fact, he fired them !

Larry

The .45 Super is a simple change that allows 28,000 psi loads in a 1911. It's just a matter of changing springs to handle the extra recoil. I use Super brass, which is dimensionally the same as .45 acp, in my 625 and I don't use light bullets like a 200 gr. More like 255 and 270 gr.

I like the article on the 25-5, but it is terribly dated.

It does apply to the 25-5, but there have been a lot of changes to Smiths in both .45 calibers- when they went away from the frame mounted hammer nose, the weight and thickness of the frame and topstrap went up slightly.

I had a 625 powerport 6.5" that was a Lew Horton exclusive about 10 years ago in .45 Colt, and got another cylinder for .45 ACP's for it- I ran many "Ruger only" loads through that thing and it kept on shooting. I traded it to a friend of mine before he moved up into NC who also liked to handload pretty hot, and last time I heard it's still ticking right along.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Thanks to all for a fine discussion. Thanks to Treeman for that link-what an eye opener. I wanted a 25-5 for years, it just appealed to me. I finally decided to get one and send it away for some custom work. I had Pinnacle machine the cylinder for ACP's in moon clips. He also pollished the cylinder bores and throats, it is a "non-pinned" with .451 thraots. I had a complete action job done, and had the trigger narrowed and smoothed. I recently got a chance to really try it out, and it surpasses my expectations. I had to develope an ACP round for it, because what I had been shooting in my 625 keyholed badly, and factory FMJ stuff walked around the clock. I got some help here on the forum, as well as from some of John Taffin's articles. The part about sizing the round to the throats was the key, along with seating the LSWC's with just a little of the full baring area of the bullet exposed. The bullets I ended up with came from midatlantisbullets.com and are their 17BHN LSWC's and they are very accurate and consistent out of this gun, as are the 45 Colts. It is an 8 3/8 barrel, and the sound the ACP's make is rather unique; very different from the thundering boom of the Colts, just a great gun that I didn't really appreciate for what it can do, not just its inherent cool factor, and after digesting this discussion and that great link, I'm truly impressed! Thanks, go safely. Flapjack.