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  #1  
Old 12-27-2011, 01:34 AM
kevh481 kevh481 is offline
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Default 38/44 Load Data

Where is a good source for 38/44 load data?

What is the difference betwen the old 38/44 loads and modern 38 Special +P?
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  #2  
Old 12-27-2011, 01:37 AM
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I don't even know if there is currently a published max pressure for .38/44 loads, but if there is, it's far beyond the current .38 +P max. Of course, the old .38 Special max is above the current +P max, too.

A search here should turn up some good .38/44 data. The vast majority of what I shoot in my .357s is more like .38/44 loads.
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Old 12-27-2011, 02:02 AM
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If you can find a Handloader issue #243 they have 38-44 data in it.
I'm sorry they don't have that data in the PDF, but they did include some shotgun loads. http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...0(LO)%2021.pdf

I know it says Rifle, but it leads to Handloader.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:08 AM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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You will have to either get a subscription to loaddata.com or find a era specific reloading manual.

Find out when the 38/44 was being made, look for a manual from that time frame or just a little after. Even up until the "wonder 9" movement came out for police duty. There will be good reloading info in them. Just do us all a favor, only shoot them in "K", "L" & "N" frame 357Mag revolvers of latter manufacture.

When someone gets those loads and shoots them in a Rossi light frame and it blows up, the rest of us that use the 38/44 loads get a bad rap..................
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Sackett View Post

Just do us all a favor, only shoot them in "K", "L" & "N" frame 357Mag revolvers of latter manufacture.
I have always heard "N" frame revolvers only.
This is the first I have ever read "K" & "L" frames mentioned while talking 38/44 loads.

Be careful out there!
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:36 AM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceapea View Post
I have always heard "N" frame revolvers only.
This is the first I have ever read "K" & "L" frames mentioned while talking 38/44 loads.

Be careful out there!
Notice that I qualified the statement by making them shot in ONLY the 357Mag versions!

I have shot these 38/44 loads in an all steel "J" frame too. Since they are made on the same principle as the larger "X" frame, 5 shot, yada, yada, it makes sense that they could be shot in them as well BUT, there are some alloy guns out there that I would hesitate shooting them in, even if they were rated +P.

Your newer model steel version Smith & Wesson, "K", "L" or "N" frame, is not going to blow up the first time you light one of these off. You may get sticky extraction, or even a flattened primer or two, but they are not going to blow up.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:30 AM
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I knew I kept a 1955 copy of Lyman Ideal Handbook #40 for some reason.

.38 Special High Velocity for Heavy Duty Guns section lists a few loads:

150 grain wadcutter - 6.4 gn Unique - 1154 fps
150 grain wadcutter - 13.5 gn 2400 Rifle - 1227 fps
158 grain Thompson cast plain base - 13.5 2400 Rifle - 1220- fps
160 grain Keith Hollow Point - 12 gn 2400 Rifle - 1228 fps
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:56 AM
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I didn't realize the .38/44 was up there in the "Magnum Lite" crowd. I was told I could run these through my Colt Official Police. Not sure I want to put anything like that through anything that isn't a magnum gun. I guess the old Heavy Duty/Outdoorsman is fine since it was made for that and it's on the N frame, but anything else... I like my guns too much to hammer them like that. Not to mention my hand, wrist, arm, shoulder...
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:01 PM
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your official police should be fine. back in the day,colt even approved them for the police positives. they just said they would need servicing sooner than with std 38 spl. loads. don't think i would want to shoot them in that small a gun though.
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:48 PM
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My biggest issue is the rapid drying up of both parts and people to fit them.

On a second note, I have read several views on the older reloading charts, the CUP vs. PSI issues of load data, how the older CUP data may not be the most realistic data to be using for various reasons, and then I look at the amount of just flat out worn out guns that I see... I still don't know what to think. I don't like picking up rattle trap Combat Magnums, M&P's, and whatever else knowing that they have fallen because of years worth of hot loads. I know some parts are made to be replaced, but I still can't figure where the line ends at ammo that punishing guns. I still can't dismiss the thought that the .38/44 and .357 magnum were both made in the N frame. The Combat Magnum only came about with pressure from some big names. But then I also know I'm guilty of baby'ing my guns far more often than I allow them to shoot loads they were designed and made to shoot. Then there are the days that I prefer Bill Ruger's approach to building them a step above anything they are made to shoot. But then that gets taken advantage of just as much. I don't know what I'm saying at this point so I will just stop.
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Old 12-27-2011, 03:49 PM
kevh481 kevh481 is offline
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I would only run these rounds through an larger framed gun (S or N or whatever you want to call a 44-based frame). I want to pick up a 4" or 5" Heavy Duty in the next year and would want to try some of the type of rounds meant for it through it.

With regards to the Colt Official Police, these guns were built on the same 41 Colt frame that the Python/357 Magnum/Trooper were and have thicker cylinder wall which is why they can handle the hotter 38 Special and 38/44 loads.

My problem is finding load data for the original 38/44 loads. Other than Keith's 158gr over 13.5 gr of 2400, not much seems to be available.
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Old 12-27-2011, 06:03 PM
cjw3 cjw3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevh481 View Post
I would only run these rounds through an larger framed gun (S or N or whatever you want to call a 44-based frame). I want to pick up a 4" or 5" Heavy Duty in the next year and would want to try some of the type of rounds meant for it through it.

With regards to the Colt Official Police, these guns were built on the same 41 Colt frame that the Python/357 Magnum/Trooper were and have thicker cylinder wall which is why they can handle the hotter 38 Special and 38/44 loads.

My problem is finding load data for the original 38/44 loads. Other than Keith's 158gr over 13.5 gr of 2400, not much seems to be available.
.38/44 data - Cast Boolits

I picked up a 5" HD a few weeks ago and have found 12.0 grains of 2400 and a 158 grain SWC gets me 1120 fps and hits to point of aim at 50 feet. The fired cases fall free when the gun is pointed upward and they have more soot on the outside than you typically see. There is plenty of leeway to increase them, but with the results I'm getting I see no need.
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  #13  
Old 12-27-2011, 09:25 PM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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Really, just get a Speer #8 and be done with it!
Every hot load you ever wanted to load is in there, just ask some folks, they'll tell ya! (Just kidding! I'm bored tonight!)
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357 magnum, colt, outdoorsman, primer, rossi, ruger, thompson, trooper, wadcutter

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