.45 Colt suggestions

[LTC]

I'm new to .45 Colt and looking for advice on your recomended loads for a S&W M25-5. Yes, it has oversized throats. I presently reload 9mm, .38 Spec., .40S&W and .45acp.

I have only ever used Bullseye for all my above stated calibers, but it looks as though it is not recomended for the .45 Colt. I will also be using these reloads in a 1894 Marlin with a 24" barrel.

I'm open to all powder / bullet suggestions.

LTC

[Titegroups]

All depends on what you want to do with it.

[LTC]

Thightgroups,
Punch paper only. Looking for light accurate loads.

LTC

[arjay]

Unique is an old favorite.Do you have a source for bullets that fit the throats?

[Dragon88]

200gr cast FP over Unique for a nice plinking load.

250gr cast FP over Unique to replicate the original 250gr/40gr BP load.

Basically Unique is the way to go.

[Skip Sackett]

You have the possibility for some real fun with that Marlin and this old caliber, friend. It will be able to eek out all that the Ole 45 is possible of!

I too say use Unique, 8-9.5gr will get you some fun shooting loads with any bullet from 240gr to 280gr. Believe me, that Marlin will take much more than that!

In the revolver you have, softer bullets, faster powders may be the way to go. The softer bullet will be easy to get to obturate and the higher pressure of the faster powders will make more pressure, a win/win in a revolver that has bigger throats.

I would not be afraid to use Bullseye in the 45 Colt. If you go to the Alliant website, you should be able to find some loads for it.

If you can't, send me a PM and I will find some for you.

Hope this helps.

[winter1857]

I shoot 8 grains of 231. It burns cleaner for me than Unique. My 25-5 was cut down to 3 inches and ported by an unknown fellow before me. (It has night sights and a WONDERFUL trigger.)

It keyholes pretty badly with the .452 250 grain SWCs that are so accurate in my Ruger Bisley. However it will still keep all shots on a small paper plate at 25 yards. I want to try out some .454 cast bullets eventually.

[Vulcan Bob]

For those evil oversize throated revolvers I've had good luck with the Remington 250gr LRN, these are sized at .455 and are available in bulk from Midway. .454 dia bullets will work as well. I use these in one of my 25-5's and my 3rd gen Colt SAA's. My standard load is 7.5 to 8.0 grains of Unique with a standard primer, this duplicates the factory load's. For whatever reason .452 dia jacketed bullets do fairly well in oversize throated revolvers and I've been useing 8.5 grains of Power Pistol,standard primer with the Hornady 250 XTP.

[TwoPoundPull]

Food for thought, sent my 25-5 to S&W and they fitted a new cyl. Perfect color match, and now shoots consistant little groups......As for range duty, have had good luck with Trail Boss under 200 grain Laser Cast SWC's and RN FP for that tube fed Marlin.....Used 231 and other faster burning powders but I had "powder placement" issues and inconsistant results.....The TB fills that big case......(But it does smell strange)....And yes, Cast bullets do work well in microgroove bbl's....

[OFT II]

I had one with oversized throats back in the '80s. I bought a Lyman 454 mold that threw 255 grain SWCs that measured .455. It helped quite a bit. If you are interested in that mold shoot me a PM. It is a single cavity job. I have no need for it now.

[USSR]

With my 25-5, I cast 255 - 270gr SWC's and size them with a .455" sizer. Any powder from Bullseye to IMR4227 will work, depending upon how hard you want to push them.

Don

[LTC]

To all who have responded,

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will take all of them into consideration.

LTC

[ArchAngelCD]

I load either a 250gr LRN or 255gr LSWC in the .45 Colt. My favorite powder for the 45 Colt is W231. I also get very good ammo using HS-6 or AA#5. If you don't have W231 on hand and do have one or both of the others you cas make good ammo without buying another powder. I kile HS-6 a little better than AA#5 because it's more accurate. But when it comes down to it W231 is still my favorite as it is for most handgun calibers.

My usual load under a 250/255gr bullet is 7.2gr W231. Great load in my revolvers...

[amazingflapjack]

I have a similar situation, except that it is a Winchester 94 AE, and a 357 revolver (S) that I can use the same size bullets in, fortunately. I found that the rifle requires a harder lead bullet-17-18 BHN, because the increased barrel length increases the velocity significantly enough that severe leading ocurred in short order when using typical wheel weight (quenched) lead. I like midatlanticbullets.com as they have several sizes and use a 17bhn lead that is hard enough to eliminate leading under 12-1300 FPS, and still soft enough to grab the rifling well. Your rifling may be deeper, but soft lead will foul it. Figure about a 40% gain in velocity over a 6 inch revolver. I use Unique in my 25-5-and keep it pretty close to 8gr's with a 200 gr or heavier bullet. Go safely. Flapjack.

[mkk41]

The Smith 25 should not be subjected to any higher pressure loads. Thin cylinder walls , especially at the bolt cut say keep the loads light. I load for a Cimarron SAA , usually genuine black powder or one of the substitutes. But I also have a 25. I'm looking at Trailboss. Made for cowboy-action level loads , it's a bulky powder that fills up in that big case.

[Skip Sackett]

mkk41, I have to respectfully disagree. Here is why: Measure a Ruger Redhawk's cylinder diameter. Now, measure a Smith. Same, same. Bolt notches? Okay, I'll give you that. Not sure about the Ruger.

That being said, the Smith 25 -7 that I have will take whatever a M629 Classic will. I have never subjected it to those types of loads but, it will handle right up to that level and not fall apart. Wear out prematurely? Um, yeah, they will do that.

John Linebaugh says that they are designed to handle loads in the 30,000psi range. WAAAAAAYYYYYY above what your SAA will but not near what the Ruger Redhawk will either.

Brian Pearce has a GREAT article in the #246 issue of Handloader Magazine where he uses the RCBS 45-270SAA (cast to weigh 280gr) and three load levels. 14,000psi, 20,000psi and 32,000psi.

I run the 32,000psi loads in my Ruger Blackhawk and Puma rifle. That 280gr bullet out of the rifle gives me 1800fps. Good enough for anything in the lower 48!

The Smith has never, and while John shoots them in his, had that level put to it while I have owned it. Probably never will.

It won't blow up in your hand either way BUT, it will wear prematurely with heavier loads.


FWIW

[old tanker]

Lyman 454190 on top of 40 grains of FFFg. Same bullet and 8.5 grains of Unique if you can tolerate a little less accuracy, velocity and smoke.

[USSR]

The 25-5 and 25-2 are the same basic revolver in 2 different chamberings. The 25-2 is rated for use with .45 ACP+ ammo at 23k psi, so I use 23k psi as a self-imposed pressure limit for loads with my 25-5. 255gr - 270gr bullets at 1,000+fps is still a pretty impressive load.

Don

[JoeHatley]

I have only ever used Bullseye

I use Bullseye for all my handgun loads.

In .45 Colt I use 6.0 grains Bullseye and a 200 grain SWC plated bullet.



Nice soft shooting load that is very accurate in all my .45 colt revolvers.

BTW: In your oversized throats, try a 185 grain hollow based round nose bullet from Berry's Mfg. I think you'll be pleased with the results.

[robctwo]

I have shot a lot of 200 gr lswc over 5.7-6.2 Clays. Just loaded up some 6.1 Bullseye with the same bullet. Trail Boss loads nice soft loads as well.

[chief38]

My standard Cowboy Load is:

7.8 grains of Unique over a 255 grain RNFP bullet. Any major brand of large Pistol Primer seems to work well. These gets shot out of my 2 Colt SAA revolvers and my Marlin Lever Action. This load is accurate and does not beat up the firearms.

Chief38

[Skip Sackett]

Went to the range yesterday. Looking to develop a load using one of my lighter .452" bullets. Loaded up some H&G #68 & some Saeco 220gr LRN over 9.0gr of a surplus powder called IPP. It stands for Industrial Pistol Powder. It was raining so no chronograph but my M25 -7 finally shot to POA!
I have another 200gr mould to try boolits from but don't have any cast up right now. On a road trip too so, it will have to wait till I get home.

[da gimp]

Loading Bullseye in pistol cartridges scare me. You can easily put double charges (or more) in cases & never have an overflow, thus generating terribly high pressures. Conversely, years ago,I saw pictures of many fine handguns destroyed by under-charges of Bullseye powder detonating, (instead of progressively burning) by the old time match shooters.

[Ron H.]

Originally Posted by Skip Sackett

Went to the range yesterday. Looking to develop a load using one of my lighter .452" bullets. Loaded up some H&G #68 & some Saeco 220gr LRN over 9.0gr of a surplus powder called IPP. It stands for Industrial Pistol Powder. It was raining so no chronograph but my M25 -7 finally shot to POA!
I have another 200gr mould to try boolits from but don't have any cast up right now. On a road trip too so, it will have to wait till I get home.

Sir, I've seen the same thing with my 25-9. 250s print hopelessly high, but 200s print pretty close to the sights.

A cast 200-grain bullet with 8.0 grains of Unique makes for a nice target/plinking load in .45 Colt. I've shot a lot of that recipe over the years.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

[Skip Sackett]

Originally Posted by da gimp

Loading Bullseye in pistol cartridges scare me. You can easily put double charges (or more) in cases & never have an overflow, thus generating terribly high pressures. Conversely, years ago,I saw pictures of many fine handguns destroyed by under-charges of Bullseye powder detonating, (instead of progressively burning) by the old time match shooters.

gimp,
The folks that do the tech work on powders, the ones that are professionals, do not believe in powder detonation.

Personally, I am afraid that I don't either. If it was a "fact" it would be easily duplicated. I believe what you saw was guns blown up by squibs followed by full charges. Just me though.

[Dale53]

da gimp;
This is an urban myth. The handguns WERE destroyed but the cause was finally determined to be caused by a combination of a double charge and failure to clean the seating die when using cast bullets. Build up of lube in the die caused deep seating of the Hollow Base Wadcutters. The combination of a double charge (a "K" frame Smith will often handle the pressures generated by a double charge of the common weight of 2.7 Bullseye) and the deep seating caused catastrophic failure (blowing the cylinder open and peeling back the top strap).

After a number of these accidents being reported to various firearms manufacturers, and MUCH incorrect speculation, the NRA commissioned H.P. White Laboratories to find the cause. The cause was determined to be the above.

What we had was a bunch of new reloaders suddenly jumping on the Progressive band wagon without adequate knowledge. Careless operation resulted in a good number of problems.

The same cause occurred with progressive presses when Cowboy Action Shooting took off. A bunch of new shooters, with little reloading experience, jumping into Progressive presses.

Kind of like turning a bunch of Sunday Drivers loose with Formula One Race Cars - it will NOT be pretty.

The cause of damaged guns in .45 Colt caliber were a bit different - a typical Colt or clone single action does not have as much reserve strength as a .38 Special (less metal surrounding the cartridge) and a double charge will generally "do it" without the deep seating being the necessary "final straw"...

I was loading for PPC back in the day when all of this occurred. I was loading on a Star Progressive and when the Dillon 450 hit the market, Dillon sent me one for evaluation. I kept it (sent money instead of the press back to Dillon), then when the advanced 550B became available, went that route. I have loaded a couple hundred thousand of cartridges on my Dillons (I have two) and am aware of the pitfalls...

FWIW
Dale53

[LTC]

Once again, thanks for all the continued replies and advice.

LTC

[Skip Sackett]

These are the newest loads for the 45Colt. These are the 200gr LRNFPHP cast with the range lead from my other thread.

The load is with 10.0gr of I.P.P.

They look cool! Of course, that bullet looks cool in any case!

[da gimp]

I use Unique almost entirely for my handgun reloading needs.Very good velocities are obtained, with safe pressures, & it meters great thru mu Dillon powder throwers & the RCBS one too.

It is nigh impossible to drop double charges of Unique thru operator error, or machine malfunction, but with Bullseye, it can easily happen.

Been reloading for 40 years or so, load for our family & our friends too, though I've begun to ask them to bring their own primers now...........

[JoeHatley]

Loading Bullseye in pistol cartridges scare me. You can easily put double charges (or more) in cases & never have an overflow, thus generating terribly high pressures.

Just my opinion, but if using Bullseye scares you, maybe you should stick with factory ammo and not reload.

[Skip Sackett]

I wonder if he has ever seen what Titegroup looks like in a case! Talk about EMPTY!

Personally, Unique is the best powder for the 45 Colt. Sorry, just had to get that off of my chest! And, I am not "unique lover" so to speak.

I did start out with Bullseye only in a 38Spl case. Still use it as my go to powder for that caliber.

[trauma1]

In my CAS shooting days i used Clays powder for everything - It is Cheap, relatively clean, uniform to throw from a measure and easily found. Can't remember the exact recipe but used 250gr cast bullets at around 700fps. These shot perfectly out of 2 rugers and a marlin. Look them up online and check it out. I want to say I could load almost 1500 rds out of 1# of powder? Anyways.

[LTC]

Well, I set my Dillon 550B up for .45 Colt this afternoon. I used a 200gr. .452" LFPRN bullet over 5.2gr. of Bullseye with COL of 1.560". Thats as close as I could come using three different manuals that didn't call for the exact 200gr. bullet.

I only loaded about 18 rounds and will try them in my 25-5 next week. Does any one here see a problem with that loading?

Merry Christmas
LTC

[Ron H.]

Originally Posted by LTC

Well, I set my Dillon 550B up for .45 Colt this afternoon. I used a 200gr. .452" LFPRN bullet over 5.2gr. of Bullseye with COL of 1.560". Thats as close as I could come using three different manuals that didn't call for the exact 200gr. bullet.

I only loaded about 18 rounds and will try them in my 25-5 next week. Does any one here see a problem with that loading?

Merry Christmas
LTC

Sir, that's really light--it sounds more like a .45 ACP load than a .45 Colt load. You might want to re-check your data.

For .45 Colt, Alliant's website lists a max of 7.5 grains of Bullseye with a swaged 200-grain LSWC, with a starting load of 10 percent below that, which would be about 6.7 grains. That more or less parallels my old Speer No. 11, which lists 7.5 as max and 6.5 as the starting load.

FWIW, I'd be very leery of the load you describe. You might stick a bullet in the bore. Was it me, I'd bump the load up to at least 6.5 grains of powder.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by Vulcan Bob

For those evil oversize throated revolvers I've had good luck with the Remington 250gr LRN, these are sized at .455 and are available in bulk from Midway. .454 dia bullets will work as well. I use these in one of my 25-5's and my 3rd gen Colt SAA's. My standard load is 7.5 to 8.0 grains of Unique with a standard primer, this duplicates the factory load's.

Right there ya go...I've used the above loads for forty years.
Shot equally well in revolver or carbine.

Su Amigo,
Dave

[LTC]

Ron H.,
I'll take your advice. I'll pull the bullets on the few rounds I have loaded and bump them up to 6.5gr. I thought I might be on the light side.

Once again, thanks for the advice and interest in a fellow forum member's requests.

LTC

[LTC]

Well, I pulled all the bullets this morning and bumped the 5.2 grains up to 6.5 of Bullseye and reloaded those 18 cases. This is the only powder I presently have on hand and the only powder I have ever used.

It sounds as though I should invest in a pound of Unique though.

I hope to post the results by later this week.

LTC

[Skip Sackett]

Bullseye will be fine for these loads. If you want some real mousey loads, get some Trail Boss. It is a fast powder but there is NO way you can overcharge a case, impossible.

Just be careful when working up your loads with Bullseye and watch the charge closely. Use recommended data, you will be gtg. (Good To Go)

[amazingflapjack]

I didn't read every post, so I will suggest you pin guage the throats. Soft lead will slug up in the revolver, as has been suggested, and another way to go is a hard cast bullet of around 18BHN sized to the diameter of the throats. Depending on what that size is, you may have to use something a little smaller in your lever gun, but you will have to use a hard cast bullet in my view, as the velocity will dramatically increase in your rifle barrel; I've heard around 40%. I do this in .357 mag, and the 18BHN works wonderful, and I'm able to use the same bullet in both revolver and rifle. I asked the owner of midatlanticbullets about this, and that's where I got my bullets. Go safely. Flapjack.

[LTC]

Well my first combination was less tham stellar. Maybe 4" group at 50' from a sandbaged rest. I used 200gr LRNFP .452" and 6.5 grs of BE.

I decided to try a few different .45 bullets I had available. I made up three different combinations. Tested all three from sandbags at 50'.

1.) 200gr .452" LRNFP with 5.5grs of BE = 6 rounds in a 2.5" group.

2.) 250gr .454" LRNFP with 5.5grs of BE = 6 rounds in a 4" group.

3.) 230gr .452" LRN with 5.5grs of BE = 5 rounds in a 1" group with one flyer 1" out.

I loaded up 50 rounds of #3 combination and will see it I can repeat the feat.

LTC