2400 powder question

[rijaxon]

Howdy. I used to reload years ago and have just recently gotten back into it. Today, I was reloading some 158 gr JHP's in 357 magnum brass. I use the Speer reloading manual. It called for 13.8-14.8 grains of 2400. I measured out 14.3 grains of 2400 and it filled the brass to the top. I assume that that would make it a "compressed" load but the book didn't call it that. I thought my scale was off because I've never loaded a pistol round where the powder filled the brass.

Am I missing something? Should 14.3 gr of 2400 fill 357 magnum brass and is that really safe?

[jubela#4]

You have a problem there. I load 13.5 grains of 2400 in 357 mag brass and it does not fill the case as you describe.

[Dragon88]

Check your scale. 2400 often fills up to the base of the bullet on a max charge, but filling to the mouth of the case is way too much.

[Treeman]

You need to check your scale. 14.3 grains of 2400 will fill the case to the base of the seated bullet but it doesn't literally fill the case in any lot I ever used.

[rijaxon]

Thanks for your replies. I use an RCBS scale and my 21 year old daughter was watching. We set it up 2 or 3 times and were amazed. The larger part of the scale was 0 to 50 to 100, etc. I set it on 10. Then the next scale was 0-10 and I set it on 4. The next was0-1 by tenths. I set it on .3. Since I had already put std primers in, I couldn't use H110 so I decided to use the only other powder I had which was AA#5. There was a large gap between the powder and the bullet but it's all I had. I wasn't about to take a change with the 2400 and decided to get on a forum and find out if I missed something. I'll go try it again now. I can't believe my scale is off that much.

[CJ]

Originally Posted by jubela#4

You have a problem there. I load 13.5 grains of 2400 in 357 mag brass and it does not fill the case as you describe.

AGEED!


Per EK's writings, I have loaded #.## grains of 2400 in 357 cases with 158 grain hard cast LSWCs. This is significantly more than the load you are speaking of. It is a major load and snappy in a 6 inch Python, but never showed any signs of excess pressure.

While loads using JHP vs. hard cast (or any jacketed load) will increase pressure, your 13.5 grains of 2400 are acceptable in my experience.

2400 has supposedly changed over the years and has become "hotter" as I have read about it. When in doubt, consult several reputable reloading manuals.

[Treeman]

Quick rough check of your scale would be to weigh some bullets.

[rijaxon]

Update: I figured out what I did. I had a canister of Unique on the bench and grabbed it instead of the 2400 which was sitting out too. What an idiot! I was in a hurry and got ahead of myself. A bad thing to do when reloading. Thanks for all of your input.

I am somewhat concerned about the AA#5 not filling up the case to the base of the bullet, however. Will that yield poor accuracy?

[steamloco76]

AA #5 is an easy to ignite powder so you loads should be pretty consistent velocity wise.

Good thing you caught the error wit 14.3 grains of Unique! Can't imagine shooting that being good for the gun or the shooter. Proof that you can never be too careful at the reloading bench.

[Dragon88]

Originally Posted by rijaxon

Update: I figured out what I did. I had a canister of Unique on the bench and grabbed it instead of the 2400 which was sitting out too.

That would have been a really bad day. Remember, only one powder on the bench at a time. I usually put the canister of powder to my left with the label facing me, the scale and loading tray to my front, and the notes on my load to my right. I look at all three to constantly check myself when single loading cases. Each charged case gets two eye balls and a strong light down it before seating a bullet. You can't be too careful when handloading.

[Rule3]

Glad you "caught" the problem. I just wanted to add that no scale is good without a set of check weights. Of course in this situation it would not have mattered but if you do not have weights, they are a good thing to purchase.

[jhvaughan2]

Originally Posted by Dragon88

Remember, only one powder on the bench at a time.

This is worth reading again.

[ArchAngelCD]

AA#5 is a medium burn powder and of course will not give you to velocities but it will produce accurate ammo. I wouldn't worry about shooting it at the range as long as the charge weights are right. I like AA#5 and sometimes use it for loading .38 Special +P, .45 Auto and .45 Colt ammo. (sometimes)

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by Treeman

Quick rough check of your scale would be to weigh some bullets.

A very rough check. Never use a bullet to verify accuracy of your scale. Commercial bullets can be off as much as one full grain.
I agree, 14gr of 2400 comes to about the bottom of the bullet in a 357mag case.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by rijaxon

Update: I figured out what I did. I had a canister of Unique on the bench and grabbed it instead of the 2400 which was sitting out too. What an idiot! I was in a hurry and got ahead of myself. A bad thing to do when reloading. Thanks for all of your input.
I am somewhat concerned about the AA#5 not filling up the case to the base of the bullet, however. Will that yield poor accuracy?

The cans look nothing alike & that mistake should never be made. No disrespect, but you need to pay more attention to the basic safety rules. One powder ONLY. Verify your components EVERY time you sit down to reload. NEVER get distracted. While I enjoyed having my kids help reload, never lose you focus. That would have been a catastrophic event had you actually fired 14gr of Unique. I had a freind take apart his 44RBH loading RedDot instead of BlueDot. He swears it didn't happen, but I found the can of RD on his bench after the event.

[rijaxon]

UPDATE, again. I went back down to reload some more 357 and poured out what I thought was 2400. To my surprise, it was flakes of Unique. Somehow, before last night, I had emptied my powder dispenser into my bottle of 2400 diluting/contaminating it. Now, I have a contaminated bottle of 2400 with Unique in it that I cannot use. Now I know why the "2400" filled up my case with 14 grains. It wasn't 2400 but Unique in a 2400 bottle. As my nephew used to say, "Dumb me!"

Thanks for helping me figure out my stupidity.

[USSR]

No offense, rijaxon, but maybe reloading isn't for you.

Don

[Fishslayer]

Originally Posted by rijaxon

Update: I figured out what I did. I had a canister of Unique on the bench and grabbed it instead of the 2400 which was sitting out too.

Did that once when I was a n00b. I never EVER have more than one bottle of powder even out of the powder locker at one time.

A 2400 size charge of Unique would have made for a VERY short range session.

Originally Posted by rijaxon

UPDATE, again. I went back down to reload some more 357 and poured out what I thought was 2400. To my surprise, it was flakes of Unique. Somehow, before last night, I had emptied my powder dispenser into my bottle of 2400 diluting/contaminating it. Now, I have a contaminated bottle of 2400 with Unique in it that I cannot use. Now I know why the "2400" filled up my case with 14 grains. It wasn't 2400 but Unique in a 2400 bottle. As my nephew used to say, "Dumb me!"

[rijaxon]

Yes, Don reloading IS for me. I enjoy it. Fortunately, I deduced what was wrong before doing something dangerous to me and anyone near me at the range. What disturbs me is that sometime in the past, I had put leftover Unique in the 2400 bottle. How that happened, I'll never know. I don't quit something just because I made one mistake. I'm not proud of it but I'm also not ashamed to admit my mistake. Hopefully, someone will learn from mine. The best advice I've received is, "One powder on the bench at a time." That is my new rule. Thanks for the kind advice, gentlemen.

[Fishslayer]

Two of my favorite powders but this has always seemed to me to be asking for a mixup.

And yes. Once I took the photo the 2400 went right back into the powder locker.

[Forrest r]

I'm glad no one was hurt.

Threads like these keeps reminding me that I'm human & can/will & do make mistakes. Thank you for posting what happened, it reminds me to pay attention when I'm reloading.

I'm just glad that you had enough experence with the 2400 to realize that something was wrong. You absolutely did the right thing & stopped what you were doing & asked for help in figuring out what was wrong.

keep um in the black

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by Forrest r

I'm glad no one was hurt.

Threads like these keeps reminding me that I'm human & can/will & do make mistakes. Thank you for posting what happened, it reminds me to pay attention when I'm reloading.

I'm just glad that you had enough experience with the 2400 to realize that something was wrong. You absolutely did the right thing & stopped what you were doing & asked for help in figuring out what was wrong.

keep um in the black

I agree completely. It's a good thing you knew enough about 2400 to know there was a problem and stopped what you were doing...

[Vanilla Gorilla]

This is a good thread to have, in that the mistake was discovered pre-kaBOOM, and everybody else gets a safety reminder.

I've got an old 2400 canister, one of the short, squat can, that I'm considering pouring my 2400 into for my bench. The two powders I use the very most are 2400 and Bullseye, and getting those two confused in the magnum cases I load could VERY easily cause a self-disassembling revolver. Since the containers only differ in color and name, I'm thinking that a different shape wouldn't hurt at all, in case I have a rectal-cranial inversion kind of moment.

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla

This is a good thread to have, in that the mistake was discovered pre-kaBOOM, and everybody else gets a safety reminder.

I've got an old 2400 canister, one of the short, squat can, that I'm considering pouring my 2400 into for my bench. The two powders I use the very most are 2400 and Bullseye, and getting those two confused in the magnum cases I load could VERY easily cause a self-disassembling revolver. Since the containers only differ in color and name, I'm thinking that a different shape wouldn't hurt at all, in case I have a rectal-cranial inversion kind of moment.

I do a similar thing with W231. I kept one of the older cans with the handle so as not to easily mix W231 up with anything else. (like w296)

[Neumann]

Originally Posted by rijaxon

Update: I figured out what I did. I had a canister of Unique on the bench and grabbed it instead of the 2400 which was sitting out too. What an idiot! I was in a hurry and got ahead of myself. A bad thing to do when reloading. Thanks for all of your input.

I am somewhat concerned about the AA#5 not filling up the case to the base of the bullet, however. Will that yield poor accuracy?

Buy a lottery ticket while your luck is holding! You would have carried that revolver home in a plastic bag, your arm too.

[Fishslayer]

Originally Posted by Forrest r

Threads like these keeps reminding me that I'm human & can/will & do make mistakes. Thank you for posting what happened, it reminds me to pay attention when I'm reloading.

^^^ This.

My thing is that I have a tendancy to leave powder in the hopper between sessions. If I had more than one powder out I would forget which it was. Except for flake size Bullseye looks quite a bit like 2400.

Ummm.... yes. I have dumped out a hopper of powder or two. They say it's good fertilizer.

[125JHP]

I put a piece of masking tape with the powder name, on the measure when i fill it, then if I leave powder in the measure I know what it is.

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by Forrest r

I'm glad no one was hurt.

Threads like these keeps reminding me that I'm human & can/will & do make mistakes. Thank you for posting what happened, it reminds me to pay attention when I'm reloading.

...

Ditto! Thanks to the OP for having the courage to make the admission.

[rijaxon]

Originally Posted by blujax01

Ditto! Thanks to the OP for having the courage to make the admission.

The first step in finding a solution is admitting the mistake/problem. Thank you all for your input and especially those with empathy.

I took the reloads with the less than max. 14.3 grains of 2400 to the range and felt that they were rather hot for me. The Accurate No 5 loads were exceptionally accurate in my Smith 586. My Marlin Cowboy Special liked them too. My H110 loads were very accurate as well albeit a bit hot for me. I never load max. loads and usually stay halfway between min. and max. loads. Even with that, the 2400 loads were a bit hot for me.

You guys are great. Thanks again and Happy New Year!

[Pondoro]

"One can of powder on the bench at a time" is great advice and bears repeating. The other big learning here is, "If it feels, smells or looks wrong stop and think hard, don't just press on." I've broken stuff because I ignored that little voice that said, "Something seems funny." Never a gun, but plenty of bolts and car parts etc.

I like to do the following -
1) Review my recipe and get out all the components - primer, powder, bullets.
2) Walk away for a while and come back and check again - is everything right?
3) Leave the canister right behind the powder dispenser.
4) Load one round and then check everything one more time.