I have 1000 Laser-Cast 148 gr. WC DBB SGG .358 I want to load for a local, indoor target league. Range goes from 20 ft. to 75 ft. and I will be shooting a M15.

Load data I have found is all over the place for charge weight. I have Bullseye, Unique and TiteGroup on hand.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

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WyoStillhunter

Try 2.8 grains of Bullseye. That is the load for 148 DEWC and HBWC
for real accuracy as long as I have been alive.

2.8 gr. BE is what I have used with good success behind swaged HBWC. I keep seeing references to 3.2 - 3.5 gr. BE for the DEWC. That seems like a pretty big difference to me.

Any thoughts on that discrepency?

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WyoStillhunter

The hollowbase WC has thin skirts on the hollowbase, and using hotter loads risks blowing out the skirt, ruining accuracy and risking a bore obstruction. They are designed to provide excellent accuracy out to the 50 yd limit of competition bullseye shooting.

The solid BB have no such risk of the base blowing out, and some (many?) shooters prefer a load that kicks as much as 158 grain service ammunition to stay in practice for service revolver competition.

That makes sense. Thanks.

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WyoStillhunter

Not only that, but the 2.8 gr. BE typically would be used for 25 yard, and the 3.2 gr. BE for 50 yard Bullseye shooting to allow the same sight setting for both distances. At one time ammunition manufacturers loaded two different powder levels for .38 Special wad-cutter ammunition. Mid-Range was nominally 770 FPS and the full power load a nominal 870 FPS, the same as the 158 gr. LRN ammunition. The Mid-Range was intended for 25 yard and full power for 50 yard shooting. The only load still available is the 770 FPS Mid-Range one.

I guess its true that some of you old-timers will have forgotten more about guns and competition than we younger-timers will ever learn. I vaguely recall many years ago a competition shooter explaining just what ALK8944 wrote about mid-range and longer range ammunition. I guess the distinction just sorta faded out as bullseye competition was taken over by the action shooting sports.

Since you said any suggestions, I load a 148gr DEWC over 3.4gr W231 and that load is extremely accurate for me.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Same here for DEWC loads. When I cast my own HBWC's then I cut the load down to minimal and tumble lube them. FUN!

Thanks alot folks. This is great info. I am 65 years old but not "an old Bullseye" shooter. I just want a competent load to shoot in this local league. The only person I compete with is myself. If I score higher than one of the local dead-eyes I am tickled. If I score lower than my average I am bummed. I have a pair of 4" guns, M18 and M15, which I practice and compete with.

Looks like I will load up some 2.8 BE and some 3.2 BE and see where they hit. I like to use a center hold as that is more "practical" preparation for the unlikely event of using my handgun to solve a problem in some other arena of life.

We shoot 50 rds. per night. We use the NRA B-4 target with bullseye that looks to be 3 & 11/16". Course of fire: 10 rds Slow Fire (lots of time) at 25', 50' & 75'. Then 5 rds Timed Fire (20 sec.) at 20', 30', 40', and 50'. Our indoor range has 10 lanes and there are flights at 5 pm, 6 pm, and 7 pm each Monday for seven weeks (throw out your low week) for a possible of 3000 points. Non-magnum centerfire handguns and .22 LR handguns are allowed and we all compete equally. At the end of the season the ordinal ranking is statistically broken into three groups with some small prizes to the first three in each class. That way newbies aren't really up against the dead-eyes. I usually shoot in the lower half of the top tier which is fine with me.

The whole idea is to have fun and promote more shooting and use of the range which is part of our Albany County Fair Board facilities. BTW that facility is used for a great 4-H shooting program, Hunter Safety, Concealed Carry, etc. classes. Local LEA use it also. It is a wonderful resource to have in our community. Memberships are available which allow shooting at no extra cost for at least part of the day every day except Thursday and Sunday.

Thanks for all the input. I will let you know what load I settle on.

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WyoStillhunter

I have had great luck with 3.3 grains of Titegroup with the 148 gr double end wad cutter. Mild recoil in a k frame and very accurate.

I loaded 25 each of 2.8 BE and 3.2 BE and went to the range today. Both shot well enough and I saw little difference in recoil. But the two revolvers I tested showed definite preferences. All shooting was done standing with 2-hand, modified Weaver stance.

The M15 slightly preferred the 2.8 BE load at 75 ft. slow fire. Both loads shot to about same POI but 2.8 shot a little tighter.

My M10 standard barrel which was tuned at Sand Burr Gun Ranch (action job & hammer bobbed for DAO/carry) shot the 2.8 BE low and left almost off paper at 75 ft. while it put the 3.2 BE centered low in the bullseye. Groups were tight for both loads but POI was much different. In timed fire at 20 and 30 ft. the M10 with 3.2 BE really packed them in center of the bullseye.

I think either load can serve well in the M15 (adjustable sights) but the M10 shooting DA shoots the 3.2 BE much better.

Thanks for all the comments earlier. They really helped.

I will give TiteGroup a try in the near future.

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WyoStillhunter

Tite group will shoot cleaner--2.9-pistol & revolver-- 25 & 50--teaspoon of liquid car wax will shine that brass.

hbwc builds a lot more pressure--I can tell that in my 52-1Anything over 3 gr. accuracy goes away. I can load up to 5gr be in my wheel guns--38s--but I shoot a 141-148 hard cast .357 dewc. A normal load for my target is 3.5 BE 25 & 50. My 52-1 likes a .356 141 gr. bnwc turned around with 2.9 be.--JACK

I use Winchester 231 3.1gr's or Titegroup 2.6gr's Both loads are very mild and very accurate.

I actually use 3.8 grains of HP-38 with the DEWC. It's very accurate and I don't have to change the measure for SWC's.

I shot some laser 148 DEWC's with 3.3 grns of bullseye yesterday and they were very accurate out of my 38/44.

I won't order them again because a SWC is just as accurate and easier to load in the cylinder.

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SWCA 1646

As usual, testing your gun with several loads is the best plan. Glad to see others enjoying WCs. Planning to buy some DEWC and test in 38 & 357 for fun and they make great thumpers.

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Tommy

My girl enjoys shooting our 19-3, 4" and prefers a softer shooting 38 special round. I bought some Acme coated 148 grain WC.DBB to make some target rounds for her. Currently I have some IMR Red powder on hand. Hodgdons load data only shows data for the Hornady LHBWC 148 grain bullets, 1.9-2.8g charge. This is my first time loading this cartridge configuration. The 38+P's shoot well but does anybody have experience with this load?

It may require more effort than you want to expend, but don't take it for granted that a "classic" Bullseye load will be the most accurate load in your gun. Alloy composition, hardness, bullet diameter, the gun and it's internal dimensions, and others factors also affect accuracy.

Try about three fast-burning powders, three bullets and multiple loads and shoot lots of benchrested groups at 25 yards. You'll quickly find out what works best for your situation. Could be a "classic" load, but there's just as good a chance that it could be a non-classic load that's most accurate.

I use 2.7 BE, mostly because I have a prehistoric Behr powder measure that uses fixed bushings to throw powder and one is calibrated specifically for this load.

Have shots lots of HBww in my 38's but got a great deal on some BBwc 148 gr from Extreme a while back and have used them in my M49 snub nose to see if they would work.

Trail Boss, Bullseye, red dot, w231 and green dot have been used from light 612 fps to almost 800 fps with Bullseye and w231 with full loads.

I don't have to worry with a BBwc with high FPS, and skirt separation..... just hanging on to the revolver, with the high recoil in the light J frame, is the main problem.

Nothing wrong with either Bullseye or w231 with their "normal" starting loads that give around 650 fps in a 2" J frame.
If you have a K frame, it will tame the recoil even more, for a great day of shooting.

I tried seating the BBwc flush but the 38 case at around 1.24" OAL seamed to be a lot more accurate in my revolver, with this bullet...............
even more so if you have a 6" barrel.

Have fun.

Hmmm? He was 65 when he started this thread....??😉😬

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Eccentric old coot

Oh, my God............ !!

I did it again.

I usually check the post date.......... Grrrrrrrrr

Sorry.

2.7 grains of bullseye is the sweet spot with 148 grain cast WC on our 50 foot indoor range .

For 75 foot range ... usually outdoor... Some shooters like 2.8 to 3.0 grains of Bullseye . They fell the heaver charge gives better bullet stability at the longer range and and helps buck any cross wind .

Never mind ...this thread is 8 years old ... I'm sure the op has found a good load by now .
Gary

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