Just got back from local gun show with a new friend. I picked up a 35 Whelen improved rifle. It has Mauser action 26.5 inch barrel and was too pretty to pass up for $550. It came with about 150 rounds of varying reloads. I am not at all familar with this round and I don't reload. examples of what came with it

4 boxes of mil case, primer cci lr, powder wc 846 48.6 grs, 200 gr sn hornady

3 boxes same case and primer, powder 4320 56.0grs, 200 gr sierra.

All boxes are labled and were load 10-14 years ago. Some have 30.06 cases.

What have I bought (lol), who can I buy loads from, can I use regular 35 whelen factory loads in it, good gun for pigs and elk? thanks

It's an old wildcat round built on a 30-06 case.You should be able to shoot factory loads in it and the brass will fireform to the chamber.As far as I know the ackley improved version is a handloading proposition. Let us know how it shoots.Did it come with the dies?

Is it an Ackley Improved, or the Brown-Whelen? They're not interchangable, and there's a big difference between them. Hopefully you got the dies with it.

You should be able to fire factory ammo in it. Likely you will lose some small amount of accuracy. You will then have fire-formed cases you could reload. Maybe Lee makes a collet neck-sizer die and you wouldn't have to worry much about which wildcat you actually have...

No dies came with it but it did come with a very clean Leuplod Vari X II 3X9 scope. The barrell and all boxes just say Whelen 35 IMP. The stock is close to a tiger wood pattern and has a nice cheek pad. It is a long gun, a short armed guy would have issues. Guess for the money any shooter is going to be a good deal. So it is a 30.06 case that expands out and you basically put another bullet in the neck? Can use 35 Whelen factory ammo but not 30.06 correct? Will take to local gun shop next week to inspect, check rifling etc. Expect a little extra recoil over 30.06?

I'd say you did good on the price with that scope.I would guess the recoil would be a bit more than a stock 30-06,depending on the load.A decent gunsmith should be able to tell you which version you have.Perfect excuse to take up reloading.

I would NOT shoot the reload ammo you got with the rifle! Pull the bullets and you will have a nice supply of fireformed brass and bullets with which to start reloading. I NEVER trust anyone else's handloads, not worth the chance of injuring yourself or bystanders and wrecking the rifle. The improved cartridge should be as good a cartridge as the standard round if not somewhat better. Although the Whelen can be loaded close to the performance level of the .375 H & H, I shoot more moderate loads in mine with bullets weighing less than 250gr.

Blowncar,

Chances are about 99-1 what you have is an Ackley version. The way to tell is simply compare the cartridges you have with a standard .30-06. If the neck is approximately the same length and the neck/shoulder junction in the same place it is a Whelan. If it is the Brown version the neck will be noticeably shorter, and slightly shorter than it's diameter.

The loads you say are marked on the reloads are quite reasonable for the cartridge. I would have a friend that does reload pull down 3-4 rounds of each and verify they are correctly marked. Usually I would say to not shoot them, but with a wildcat the situation is a little different.

My recommendation is either take up hand loading or sell it now to someone who does. 150 rounds don't go very far.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

I agree that I would not shoot those reloads. If you pull the bullets, you will have a stock of bullets and cases that you can use to reload again.
I have a standard .35 Whelen in the Remington 700 Classic persuasion. I have made brass for it from 30-06 with one pass through the .35 die, but you have enough ready formed brass to last a good long while.
My favorite load uses the 225 grain Sierra boat tail with IMR 4064. Enjoy shooting that fine rifle.

I had a .35 Whelen (Ack. Imp.) built on a MkX Mauser action several years back, and I can tell you it's a dandy ! You can shoot std .35 Whelen ammo in it to good effect, and end up with fireformed cases. You can also fire .30-06 in that chamber to form cases, but accuracy will be nil. My best results were by loading a .30-06 case w/10.0 gr. Unique, then cornmeal to the base of the neck, then a tuft of Fiberfill to the mouth. Cases emerge at .35 cal., in the Ackley configuration, sometimes needing a light mouth trim to square them up. Every case I ever formed in my RCBS dies needed to be squared, usually at a considerable length loss. My rifle will cut cloverleafs at 100 yds with a 250 @ about 2500fps. Please keep us posted !

Larry

My real hobby is racing so I'll never have time to take up reloading unless I learn how to not sleep. Is there anyone on this board who can take my stuff, set it up and is interested in making a few bucks? The cases look identical to 30.06 cases in length. Would really like to keep it as it is pretty and I like my guns a little off, 257 roberts, 264 win mag.

I’ve always been intrigued by the Ackley line of improved cartridges. The logic seems sound and looks good on paper. However, the few I’ve had the opportunity to chrono have been relatively…unimpressive.

Some of the designs based on older cartridges that were originally loaded to low chamber pressures (by today’s standards) show considerable velocity increases when improved and loaded to today’s higher pressure levels in strong modern actions. (i.e. 257 Roberts AI, 30-30 AI) The others…not so much.

The Ackley line of cartridges are really better suited for the advanced handloader that has the experience, tools and equipment to enjoy the caliber.

What I would recommend, (if you don’t plan on taking up handloading as a hobby) is selling the package to someone who does enjoy such endeavors, or, taking the rifle to a gunsmith and have it rebarreled to a caliber that you can buy ammo for.

Jeff

PS. If you insist on keeping the rifle and trying to get someone to load ammo for you, there were a few small, one man, ammo and brass company’s out there that will take your rifle (along with a considerable amount of cash, possibly more than you have invested in the rifle) and develop a handload for you. The few guys I knew of that did such things are no longer in the industry (probably insurance reasons) but I’m sure there must be someone out there that still does such things.

Pulled several of the rounds apart and they match pretty much in powder weight and bullet as the boxes say; but can't tell if the powder is correct. Since I have 200 or so formed rounds with bullets from 180-250 ready to go, I'm going to pull the bullets, dump the powder and have them reloaded with known safe loads.

local gun shop offered $100 profit for 24 hour investment. However, i'm going to keep this gun so when i move to idaho next year i can introduce it to a big elk

thanks everyone

I think your biggest problem is that you have not posted pictures yet I am sure we can all give you much more accurate advise with pictures.

good luck

Going to have my kid show me how, lol.

Another thing you may want to check is the rifling twist. Supposedly, anything slower than 1 in 14 won't stabilize heavier (250+) bullets. Of course, most of the available bullets out there are under 250gr, so it's pretty much a moot point.

The Ackley Improved Whelen headspaces on the index point of the shoulder. If the neck is the same length and starts at the same point as the 30-06, or a piece of new .35 Whelen brass (Remington is the least expensive .35 brass) it is an improved Whelen. If the shoulder is farther forward, it is a Brown-Whelen, which is more complicated to fireform brass for. For the Improved Whelen, you can use regular brass, load it and fire it. You will then eject a .35 whelen improved case, perfectly fireformed. You won't lose accuracy. If it is a Brown Whelen you will need to neck it up to .375 and then neck it back down to .358 forming a false shoulder for the casing to headspace on, and then fire it. .35 Whelen improved dies can be had from Redding, RCBS, Lyman and Lee. They cost more than the regular dies. A 1 in 16 inch twist will stabilize the 250gr bullets, and in some rifles, the 300gr. bullets, but a 1 in 14 is better. For you, it doesn't matter. You will get best performance from 225gr and 250gr. bullets for elk, moose and bear. For deer, 200 and 225gr bullets will work well at 300, 225gr Sierras will work well to 450, 500 yds. With the Improved casing and a 26.5" barrel, you should get 2800fps from the Sierra Gameking, which makes it as flat as a 30-06 using 165gr boattail bullets out to 700yds. Have a gunsmith mike the chamber and then go shooting. I use the Sierra 225gr. and the 250gr Speer in my Whelen (standard chamber) and get 1" or less groups at 100yds.

Plan on taking up reloading or selling it. If you shoot much, reloading is a good shooting hobby to get into.

If you posted location you might get someone near you to walk you through the basics and mentor you on their equipment. Otherwise it is shoot factory and hope. IME factory rds in an Ackley Improved chamber are not as accurate as factory in a factory chamber.

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Front sight and squeeze

You still haven't put a picture of the rifle up. I'd like to see it. Also, since you posted on it, you haven't updated on what you found out from the gunsmith. One way to check headspace on the rifle so you'll know if it is an improved or a Brown-Whelen is to smoke the standard Whelen cartridge or a 30-06 cartridge with a candle and chamber it. If you chamber it and it is tight when you do, or if it has a ring at the front of the shoulder near the shoulder-neck junction where the soot is worn off by chambering the round, the headspace is correct for the Ackley Improved, and its safe to fire standard .35 cartridges in. You will want to handload for this round, and when you have some Improved brass, you can go around 4 to 5% over max on your loads if you work up carefully. The Whelen round with bullets of 225gr to 275-300gr. will hammer anything including really big Brown Bear. If your barrel twist is 1 in 14, it will stabilize 300-310gr. bullets. 1 in 16 will stabilize up to 270-280gr. and maybe 300gr. bullets. Check out Whelen's Northwoods Trails on the internet and you will find a lot of useful info on handloading and pressure tests. He has done extensive testing of both loads and bullets in the Whelen.

Wow i forgot all about this thread, my apologies. I got rid of the race car, moved to Idaho (this year) and bought a Dillon 550B reloader. A buddy pulled down the original rounds and loaded me up we the following;

180gr Hornaday SSP over 61 grains Reloader 15 = 2846fps

200gr Hornaday FTX over 57 grains R-15 = 2716 fps

200gr. Barnes TSX over 58 grains R-15 = 2754 fps

I've shot each from sandbag rest and get an average of 1.15 MOA for 3 shot groups @100 yards. My friend is a much better shooter and he got right at 1.00.

I love this gun, especially after installing muzzle break (not pretty). Can shoot off 20 rounds and no soreness at all.

Can't hunt this winter but maybe spring black bear; thinking the Barnes.

I am starting to reload and had 1 concern. Case length for the 35 Whelen and the Improved 35 Whelen are the same (2.494) correct? Overall case length is the same as well?

If you are still in doubt regarding the chambering, have a competent gunsmith make a chamber casting and measure.

I guess I don't understand the question??? Case length is case length and the measurement is made after the case is sized. The "trim to" length is usually 0.010" shorter.

Too bad about the installation of the muzzle brake.

Bruce

When most people think of an Ackley Improved version of a cartridge, velocity increase seems to be the primary consideration. It is a definite result of the case shape change but in fact, there are other advantages to Mr. Ackley's design that to me at least equal if not outweigh improved velocity.

For starters, one of the main causes of bottleneck rifle case failure is case stretching. When a cartridge of that type is fired, its "funnel" shape created by the taper in the body and the sloping shoulder almost promotes brass flow toward the neck. That in turn thins the case just above the case head and the dreaded bright ring of death starts to appear followed soon afterward by case head separation. The AI's straighter body walls and flatter shoulder angle, as illustrated by the photo below of my handloads in standard .243WIN and Ackley Improved, resist brass flow which results in much longer case life.



Another very real improvement is in accuracy. As the above photo also shows, one way the shoulder angle is flattened is by lowering the neck-shoulder junction, which yields a longer neck, something benchrest shooters consider paramount to good accuracy. You can also see a dark ring just below the AI case's shoulder - that's where the original shoulder stopped.

I have two Ackley Improved rifles, a .243AI varmint rifle with a 27" stainless fluted McGowan barrel and a .280AI with a 25" stainless fluted McGowan sporter barrel, both built on blueprinted Remington Model 700 actions. The .280's is factory engraved and has a factory detachable box magazine.





I floated the .243's barrel in a Hogue Overmolded stock myself and it shoots tiny one-hole groups at 100 yards with the now-discontinued 65-grain Berger BT match bullets at an average MV of 3,939fps. The .280 is bolted into an unaltered Remington Model 700 factory laminated stock with zero bedding being done - the pressure tabs in the forend are even still there. It shoots Berger 140-grain VLDs into under .400" at an average MV of 3,099fps with a powder charge nowhere near maximum. Some day, I'll bed it better or at least float the barrel and I wouldn't be afraid to bet on seeing one-hole groups from it as well.

I enjoy my Ackley Improved cartridges and think my next one is going to be a 6.5/284AI or maybe I'll just have my .260REM converted.

Ed

Your going to have to learn to reload for tht one. I wouldn't shoot he reloads that came with, just not in my nature to have that much trust in people I don't know. Pull them down, toss the powder, save the rest. Then get a ss reloading setup & get the rifle up & running. You can use std whelen data & work up.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I was looking at my Lyman manual and see the 35 Whelen overall case length listed. Of course there is no listing for the AI case length. I assume they are the same but was wondering if any AI experienced re-loaders like them the same , or a bit longer/shorter than a standard(non ai) case.

I have a good selection of "known safely loaded rounds" plus I shot 60 35whelen factory rounds and have more fireformed cases. Only need to trim .05 off the spent cases to get back to spec.

Keep it, you never know what will change in your life and one day hanloading may be one of them.
One of the pluses for Ackley Improved rounds is you can always fire the standard factory 35 Whelen in the rifle, might loose a little velocity but not enough to make a real difference. 250 grain bullet at 2200 fps is still a force to be reconed with.
Be sure and save those empties....Gary

You don't wan your ai length longer than factory whelen. Custom chambers can vary a lot so pay attention to the length. Slightly short is better than too long.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The factory Whelen case and the Ackley Improved case are exactly the same length, and are made from the 30-06 case, which is exactly the same length. The overall length for the Whelen is the maximum case length listed for SAAMI specifications for the Whelen and the 30-06 parent case. If the casing is longer, trim it using one of the trimming tools provided by Lee, Lyman, Redding or RCBS. You want all your casings below the maximum length, and its best to trim all of them to a uniform length. Accuracy will be improved and the case mouths will be squared. Try the Speer 250gr. bullet and RL 15 for a really effective elk and bear load. The Lee reloading manual lists the max load as 59.5 grains for this bullet with a muzzle Velocity of 2550fps. I get around 2650 in my Remington CDL. The Ackley Improved version of the 35 Whelen has around a 100fps edge over my regular one, and it has a much longer case life. I had an 8mm-06 Ackley Improved that pushed the 185gr bullet to 2875fps without any trouble at all. This is inside the lower edge of the .300 Win Mag range for that bullet weight, but the real advantage was case life.

The Whelen Improved is outside my knowledge but the .35 Whelen is not - I had an 8mm Yugo 98 Mauser customized/sporterized in the 1990s into .35 Whelen. It is DEATH on pigs. I could go on and on about the custom rifle itself, because it's gorgeous, I have a Leupold 1.5 x 4 scope on it (I forget where it's set but I never change it), but my point is that I had it built for elk, sadly so far unused for that, but I have used it on feral hogs with spectacular results.

***GRJ***

pics finally lol

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You might also try Hornaday .35 bullets and the very excellent 225 gr. Gameking by Sierra. I shoot this bullet into less than 1/2 inch at 100yds using Remington casings, Remington 9 1/2 primers and 60.5 grains of RL15, which chronographs to 2725fps from my Remington CDL's 24" barrel. It is a hammer when it hits.

I lucked into a custom rifle built in the early 80's built on a 1918 Springfield 03 action with a 1982 McGowan Barrel in 35 Whelen Imp.
Have found the 35 Whelen Imp to be a very easy wildcat to load for. I neck up 30-06 brass or use 35 Whelen brass in a Redding die and just fire form, accuracy is very good even with the brass that has not been fire formed yet.
Have used the 225 and 250 grain Speers and the 200 grain Hornady, rifle is not picky and shoots any of the bullets with excellent accuracy. RL-15 powder works very well in this cartridge.
Pics of the rifle and a 20 shot 100yd target from the other day, fire forming 20 rounds using 200 grain Hornadys, first shot high and right was due to rifle previously being sighted in using 250 grain Speers, had to adjust scope after first shot.

That is one fine looking stock. I love a wood stock and in my youth in the 60s I used to make them and do hand checkering. Wood stocks have that warm feeling when you lay your cheek on then maybe even better then a good women. Don

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Hang on to that Whelen, used mine in Africa 3 trips and shot plains game with great success my PH was impressed with the accuracy and stopping power of the cartridge. The Whelen both standard and improved was way beyond it's time. P.S. was shooting 225 Gr. bullets.