Update on 308 reloads not chambering

[m657]

Been working a bit at a time, had to send for missing part on 650, and doing a little research on 308.

Had the issue with reloaded rounds fitting case gauge but not M77 rifle chamber.

Finally dismounted all the loads, saving the (most 150 grain) spitzer & LRP for further use.

Dumped old powder.

Hand fit each case into rifle, about 75% will not chamber despite, again, fitting in Wilson Case Gauge perfectly.

So I full length sized them one at a time and checked chamber fit. YES!!!

Loading Varget in a range of minimum to short of maximum per printed Hodgdon chart.

Carefully chamber load each round. YES!!! All but 2 fit perfectly.

Can not see any reason these last 2 don't fit.

Took 2+ hours this AM. Now have 40 rounds loaded for target test at range before settling on powder charge.

I've never used Varget before.

Further discussion encouraged.

[fredj338]

Are you crimping? Is the die set to bump the shoulder back enough? Is the brass mixed or same headstamp, same # of times fired? It all matters.

[m657]

Crimping: very light, at cannelure
Die set: seems to work on "nearly all" of the sample I've tried. Will know more after ranged session later this week.
Brass: mostly LC headstamp with same ID numbers. Some of it is 'new' once fired.

Will be taking these 40 rounds out for field trials & reports results.

They've all been trimmed to exact spec case length, and all of them fit easily in the case gauge properly.

[beagleye]

And or a go/no go set?

If your gun gauges properly and or accepts factory ammo easily, maybe just adjust your die in a little further.

[SMSgt]

I learned long ago to fully-size rifle cases--die touching shellholder-- to eliminate chambering issues, especially with mil brass. Neck sizing is okay for target shooting, where time and second effort isn't an issue, but if you have to fire a second quick shot at that monster once-in-a-lifetime buck, you want the round to chamber!

[medalguy]

Do you have any problems with factory ammo? I can't see why the ammo would gauge correctly but not chamber right. Could it be possible you have a very tight chamber? There IS a tolerance in manufacturing. You might want to have the chamber checked by a competent gunsmith.

Also try not crimping the bullets. It's not really necessary and I would say that might be the source of your problems except you reported that 2 rounds did not load after you charged them with powder, yet they fit before charging? Did I read that right? That doesn't make sense. Something is not right. Finally, do you have a small base die or a standard sizing die?

[mmncw]

1st thing to eliminate: is the shoulder set back far enough? Sinclair sells a tool (#09-1050 + appropriate insert) that mounts in your caliper to measure how far resizing has pushed the shoulder back. You can use it to make sure you've set up your die to size enough, but not so much that you overwork your brass.

2nd: if you're not already, try crimping in a separate step from seating. It can be done in one step, but it's lot easier to set up and avoid problems if you separate them.

[m657]

Factory ammo no trouble.
Dies are set to go to bottom of case.

Redding standard sizing die.

If no rain tomorrow, I'll be at the range to try these.

[USSR]

Originally Posted by m657

Crimping: very light, at cannelure

Let me guess, Lee crimping die?

Don

[thndrchiken]

once fired is not new, no matter how you look at it. Did you do the initial full length size, if not you have no idea how it was sized or what chamber it was shot in.

[jepp2]

Dies are set to go to bottom of case.

This really doesn't assure you of anything. There is just too much manufacturing variance in the manufacture of the die, the shellholder and your press for this to provide any assurance of anything. I learned the hard way - but at least my problem was the rounds wouldn't chamber due to not setting the shoulder back enough. If it had been the other way of too much setback, I could have had a case head separation. Some dies say to give it another 1/4 turn after it contacts the shellholder. This can be really bad advice also.

[David Sinko]

What kind of rifle fired the cartridges the first time? I was once given over 1000 pieces of brass that I know for a fact was fired only once in their Federal Match configuration out of Remington 700s. I loaded this all up for "rainy days" and it chambers in every .308 rifle I have tried. On the other hand, I have a bunch of brass that has been shot out of M1As and FALs and I have nothing but trouble with sporadic difficult chambering like you describe. I have come to the conclusion that .308 brass can be very problematic, depending on the gas system that has digested it.

Dave Sinko

[m657]

despite 34* F I got a few downrange before frostbite and hypothermia set in....

Shot at 50 yards because the cold wind was just too brutal to go further downrange.

You know the goal is to never repeat the same mistake, always learn so you can invent a new one?

Well....never happened before, as I'm not a rifle guy, stick to pistols & this just doesn't happen....

Had 2 20-round boxes of carefully labeled reloads of different recipes from 40.5 to 43.5 of Varget with 150 gr FMJ spire point...
One was the red box with the foam and the other was a clam shell type clear ammo box.....guess which fell over in the bag on the way leaving all those marvelous indexed loads now 'jumbled up'....

It took a few to walk ~zero~ over to the bulls eye, and thereafter fairly uneventful getting the now-random loads to at least print "minute of apricot"...while the last loads left a cluster of 6 like a small bunch of grapes all cuddled together there in the cold wind!!!

Rifle: Ruger M77 International, a sweet carbine
Scope: Leopold Full field varilux II if I recall precisely

All these LC brass previously were used in my old tight chambered XP-100 IHMSA 308...and were mostly only neck sized.

No trouble with the rounds fitting today, as I had run them thru yesterday to make sure they would in fact fit.

Now I have some idea what'll work, and will be stuffing them back together.

May look at updating my old Redding 2 piece dies though.

[Jeff423]

I had the same problem with .308 "once fired" brass. I think it was once fired in a machine gun. My solution was a Redding body die. It full length sizes and resets the shoulder without disturbing the case neck. The catalog says: "it is intended for use only to resize cases that have become increasingly difficult to chamber after repeated firing and neck sizing." It worked well for me, but it probably would have been cheaper to buy new brass.

Jeff

[m657]

I've started on my second group of "FC" brass....these I believe are all from prior once fired in my own XP100. They too would not chamber in the M77 until I full length sized them, despite perfect case gauge fit.

By next week I should have my meager bag o'308 brass reloaded for this rifle.

Recipe 150g PSP over ~44.5g Varget seems to be quite pleasant/accurate enough for now.

[medalguy]

I've reloaded many thousands of rounds of 7.62 military brass, for use in an M14 and a FAL. For all practical purposes, it's safe to assume ALL 7.62mm NATO brass (with the exception of match brass) has been fired in machine guns. All I do is full length resize the brass with a standard RCBS die, check it in a case gauge, and load normally. I have never used a small base die, and I've never had chambering problems in any of my 7.62 weapons.

I realize some people do report problems. I'm just stating that I have never had any problems, and I don't use a small base die, which some would have you believe is an absolute requirement for reloading 7.62 brass. You should always check resized brass with a case gauge.

M657, we've all dumped boxes of ammo at one time or another. Try getting some plastic bags and put each charge in a bag with a tag inside. Open only one bag at a time and record your results before opening another bag. Never get mixed lots that way.

[robertrogers69]

First, let me introduce myself. My name is Bob, and I have been reloading since 1961. No expert (definition of expert is next available to take the call), but lots of experience. Reload .357, .44mag, 40 sw, 45acp, 22-250, 7mm rem mag, .308 win, 6mm rem, .222rem mag, 30-06, and a few others.
With regards to .308, Overall length is critical (trim to 2.005) Get a RCBS precision Mic (caliber specific), P/N 888329 for .308 Win, and use it to set your sizing die to .002 less than a measured fired case FROM THE YOUR WEAPON. Follow the instructions, you can hardly go wrong.
Cartridge overall length (COL) is very important, but is usually determined by what will fit in your magazine. If you are reloading for an AR type weapon (AR-10), than a proper taper crimp is a must. Use a RCBS .308 Win T/C seater die, p/n 15562, which is specifically for AR type weapons. Neck sizing is great, I use it for the 22-250, and the 6mm alot, but you will have to full length size at some time during the reloading process simply because the shoulder will eventually move forward enough to make it tough to chamber is a bolt action, if that is what you are using. I do neck size for my bolt .308's (2 of them) but not for my DPMS LR308.
With regards to powder, I have used Varget, but have found that the 3 rifles really like IMR 4895. I am trying the new Hodgon CFE 233. Their starting loads for a Sierra 168 are a little hot for the DPMS in that I am getting vertical stringing. Their starting load is 46.6, at 2662 fps, but I am reducing it down 2 grains, and shooting, and also an additional 1.5 grains lower and shooting to see the results in the DPMS.
It is imperative to use good brass when developing loads, and not pick-up range brass. If you are getting started, buy a bunch of Winchester, or if you have the money, NOSLER (great brass, but expensive). Nosler brass has proved a great choice for me, as the brass is very very good.
Every once in a whlle Midway has Federal premium loads with the Sierra 168 match bullet for $220 for 200 rounds. You can't hardly make up the loads for that cost. It shoots great, and the Federal brass is great. I am working on 6 times reloads for the DPMS with that brass.
You always want to be consistant when reloading, use the best components that you can. That way you will reduce or eliminate problems from the start. Never load up a top load out of a reloading manual at the start. Always be cautious. It is a great hobby, and I have not have had anything bad happen to me by being careful.
Bob

[Sunkist]

I have the same rifle and I've had the same problem. I started with full-length resized Fed. cases, trimmed all, fired in the rifle, neck resized and could only chamber a few of them. I went back to full-length resize and have never had another failure to chamber. Accuracy continues to be 1.5 MOA when I do my part. (It might be better if my part were better.)

[zeke]

Sometimes it helps to ensure the shell holder is same brand as the sizing die. A long shoulder is no the only dimension that can keep a round from chambering all the way, the brass may also be larger dia at base of body. Another possible problem is reloading brass that may not have been from the same specific firearm (not meaning your rifle). Different rifles have different headspace and setting your die to one piece of brass, does not mean the rest of brass will be resized to same dimension (more specifically head space).

If i was reloading for bolt, might be easier to just buy new brass and keep it segregated from any semi auto brass.