I am loading 158gr lswc with bullseye. I am using many different brands of brass and am having problems with the bullets not going down into the cylinder of my revolver. I thought that it was a certain brand of brass that was doing it but its not. I loaded just Winchester brass and about half of the bullets would not fit down into the cylinder where the other half slid down perfect. Seemed like the tip of the brass had a larger diameter or does. I talked to a buddy at the range and he told me to take the punch out of the deprimmer die and run them up there a short ways. It works! However this takes a lot of time and was wondering if there is another way around it. Thanks

It sounds like you might be overdoing the case mouth belling step. The case shoul only be flared just enough to allow the base of the bullet to enter the case without shaving lead from it. If this step is overdone, you will create a ring in the case just below the crimp that's too large for the case to fully enter the chamber. Try experimenting with the case flaring a bit. I once had an expander reduced in diameter a couple of thousandths to help create higher bullet "pull", and reduce the amount of flaring a bit.

Are you talking about the flare die? If so I have mine set up with the least amount of flare. I am able to set the bullet on top of the brass and push it in very little with out any lead getting shaved off when I seat it.

I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die last for revolver ammo. Ends problem-makes a better all around shooting bulley.

Sounds to me like you may have oversized lead bullets which are bulging out your brass just enough so that they wont go thru the cyl. This has happened to me often when I use .358 wadcutters.

As you already found out, you can resize the loaded round in your press but, it's a major pain. Best thing is to get bullets that are sized .357.

You beat me to it. I use them for almost all handgun loads.
This also cures the problem sometimes encountered when loading brass that has been fired in other guns.

If you have load the cartridges a lot, also check the length of the case. If it gets too long, that can also cause problems.

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Corripe Cervisiam

Are you crimping the rounds after you seat the bullet? It sounds like you are not removing the bell... .38 Special ammo is the easy stuff to load... Any pictures of that loaded ammo that won't fit into the cylinder?

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Check the diameter of your LSWC bullets using a mic. You may also notice that some of the cases are bulged more than others, these would be the cases that would not seat properly in the cylinder. If the diameter of your bullets are different, then the bullet manufacturer is not sizing them consistently. If you are casting your own bullets, then obtain a sizer, even the one from Lee (reasonably priced) would work.

The real problem here is that some cases are simply thicker towards the center. Winchester cases will bulge in the center if WC's are forced down below the case mouth. Espescially their plus p cases.

Remington cases work very well with wadcutters.

If you resize a case with a bullet you are also reducing the bullet diameter.
I've done this and then removed the bullet and found they were .355 or under.
They may bump up when fired but that is not really condusive to accuracy.
You will also loose case tension and may end up with a bullet walking out of the case.

You need to determine which cases will accept a fully seated WC without expanding the case beyond the size which will fit your chamber.
Mike the ones that fit at the mouth and center of the case. Then using only a unprimed case of other brands seat a wadcutter. If they require extra force to seat or bulge the case then don't use that brand.
Also keep your gun handy as as an instant go no go gauge for fit.

Bruce

Where exactly are you seating the bullets before you crimp? If you seat the bullets too deep and the case mouth is a bit past the cannelure when you crimp it will bulge the case mouth over the top edge of the groove causing it to jam up in the cylinder.

Even if you seat to the center of the cannelure some dies will push the bullet a bit deeper when it crimps.

A picture is worth a thousand words and possible reasons.

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Still Running Against the Wind

And then there is this problem...

If you set a heavy crimp [and you're not using a Lee Factory Crimp Die which resizes the cases after crimping] based on a randomly selected case that happens to be short, when you crimp longer cases you'll get a bulge that may cause chambering problems.

I know it's not a popular practice on this board but it's the reason why I trim or at least sort my cases by length.

I find typical .38 special cases to vary quite radically in length.

.030 or more is not uncommon. That makes a huge difference in crimp and can collapse and bulge a case.

Just wondering, do you seat and crimp in one operation? When I returned to reloading I found the same problem you described with various brass and bullets. Separated the operations and eliminated the problem.

Sounds like over crimping causing a bulge just below the crimp. Back off your crimp. With Bullseye, all you really need is to remove the flare from the expanding step. Different brands are slightly different in length and even different cases of the same brand can be significantly different length.

FWIW: I run all the .38spl/.357mag lead I buy through a Lee .357" sizing die.
Most of it goes through easy, but some takes a little more oomph on the handle and a few go through the die like fat goes though a goose.
So I'm pretty sure there are some minor inconsistencies in size (and roundness) in the same batch.
Noticed same with different manufacturers and calibers.

Probably not worth the effort for my limited shooting and reloading abilities, but these tired old eyes and shaky hands need all the help they can get.

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Age + Treachery = JohnnieB

My K frames favor .358" lead, and sizing to .357" opens their groups up considerably.

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Science plus Art

I second post #11

Revolver brass can vary in length, I encounter case length variations after sizing from 1.141"- 1.157" with factory .38 spl brass. I trim it all to 1.142" problem solved, and consistent crimps every time.

If you set the seat/crimp die on a short cases, it will over crimp on the longer cases thus buckling the case mouths and increasing the diameter beyond spec.

Post sizing is a way to fix poorly loaded ammunition.

If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to fix it later ?

I use the lee 3 press turret. I do seat and crimp my bullet in the final die. I do see the difference in the different lengths in brass but it still does the same thing with the exact same length brass of the same make. I do crimp the lswc in the crimping grove and when I do it still looks to be in the right spot. I do not have time right now to put up pictures but I will try to do that first thing Saturday. I think i have answer all of the questions so if i missed any that are important please re ask and i will do my best to answer. Thank you for all the help thus far.

I know some people don't like the Lee FCD, but I use them in all my pistol reloading. They work great.

Big thumbs up. I run all kind of different headstamped brass and never worry about length.

The 3 on the right go down into the cylinder smoothly. I just ran them through the 3 stages and did NOT run them through the deprimer stage with out the pin in. The brass that was used was Winchester, R-P, and PMC. The bullet on the left does not fit into the cylinder. This brass is Winchester. Can anyone see what is wrong? Thanks

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Cannot see your images as I am not a "member" of your image hosting service.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

My eyes might be deceiving me but it sure looks like a large variation in the oal of the cases? I am looking at the crimping groove on the bullets. That might be bulging your cases out. Maybe measure with a micrometer the diameter of those 4 rounds and probably the one not chambering is bulged out. I would sort the casings by oal to have consistent seating depth and crimping.
Ed

A friend I shoot with had this problem in a 6" k frame a month ago. I have a Jim Clark 38 special long slide--made from a 38 super. I have to size my bullets to ..356. I let him have a 100 rounds & it fixed his problem. Even my .357 bullets would not chamber in his gun all the time. I took his bullets--.3575--& resized to .356 & everything is ok & it did not affect his groups.---I also have to use a taper crimp die on some 38 loads. -BY the way--The bullets that would not work in his gun worked in mine.-- JACK-

simple solution.....
1. find the problem and correct it for future reloads.....
a. usually .358 Pb bullets will be fine
b. Probably should use R-P brass (a bit thinner, but very good)
c. Mike the loaded rounds and see diameter.
d. Just put a final crimp on the rounds already loaded, do this on subsequent reloads but do not overexpand when reloading.

Terry

There are two ways I would go after this. You have some that will chamber and some that won't. Sit down with a set of mics or calipers and go to town. Compare everything, apples to apples. AND, you might well start with a black magic marker, 'paint' the entire cartridge that won't chamber , then run it in as best you can, when it comes out start measuring where the black is rubbed off. Compare those areas with one that chambers with no problem.

I'm with a few others, there seems to be a distinct variation in case length, which affects crimp. The Winchester load on the left seems to have the shortest case and actually no crimp at all. I would measure all the cases, and trim all to the same length of the shortest. The consistent length and crimp will pay off in accuracy also.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I have scratched my head over this a few times. I cannot figure out how a reloader can achieve a consistent roll crimp to a bullets cannalure and get consistent neck tension on a bullet using brass of various lengths.

Can anyone explain how the LFCD over comes these issues ?

This is easy enough to solve. Will a bare bullet push through the chamber throat? If not, there is the problem. If it does, then either your crimping is distorting the bullet/case juncture enough to cause it not to fit, or your Brass is too long. The Lee FCD crimp die will iron it out to spec'd chamber dimensions. But...a good set of dies and good crimping would not cause the latter problem to begin with.

I think your problem is that you are seating and crimping in one step, with random length brass.

Personally, I can't be bothered trimming straight-wall .38spl cases for plinking/range ammo. I've found that seating and crimping in separate steps is a better solution for me, if I'm going to use brass that varies a little in length. Sure, longer cases may receive "slightly" more crimp than the shorter cases, but it's irrelevant to me for my purposes.

It's not hard to understand how a Lee factory crimp die can solve this situation. But, if you're going to reload in four steps anyway, save yourself the expense of the FCD and just seat and crimp in separate steps. Works for me.

Lou

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NRA Certified Instructor & RSO

I go with #5. I get a few like that now-in-then and it's always the bullet itself. I cast my own and even-though they are not suppose to need sizing....I get a "fat one" occasionally.

I have a spare sizer die and the ones I find like that....I simply re-size the front half of the round. I suppose the only way you can be sure your slugs are .357 on a constant basis is too invest in a bullet sizer die.

davebell18,

Referencing your third photo, counting from left to right, I see the following:
Cartridges no.1 and no.2 - the bullets are seated in the case to the point where the crimping grooves are below the mouth of the cases; anything more than a very light crimp in this position will result in a bulge just below the case mouth which could potentially keep the cartridge from seating fully in the chamber. These two cartridges are noticeably shorter in OAL than no.2 and no.4. Additionally, cartridge no.1 appears to have a much heavier crimp applied than the other three cartridges.

Cartridges no.2 and no.4 appear to be seated properly, or at least to the proper location when referencing the bullet crimping grooves and the mouth of the cases.

Were all four of these loaded during the same session? If so, there's definitely something amiss with your seating die. If they were loaded during seperate sessions, then the problem lies in the adjustment of the seating die session-to-session.


I have taken the liberty of cropping your original image to more clearly show what I'm seeing.

Attached Images

p1020948o.jpg (20.0 KB, 82 views)

That is the answer right there. The Lee FCD for 38/357 have a carbide ring on the bottom of the die that "again" resizes the case after the bullet is seated.

Being at the bottom of the die, means as you pull the round out of the die, it has to go by the ring at the last step.

What it means if propertly sized ammo that will go into the chamber and if held upside down will fall out under its own weight.

I use the Lee FCD in all my straight wall cases.

It doesn't.

The crimp adjustment is very precise. Which is good.

However, different lenght brass will still get variable degrees of crimp.

It's just that this die also has a carbide re-sizing ring at the base that on the up stroke will resize or iron-out any case distortion that the overcrimping caused.

One other both benefit & downside is that if you have mixed brass, some with heavier wall sections, it will also resize your lead bullet!

[QUOTE=
One other both benefit & downside is that if you have mixed brass, some with heavier wall sections, it will also resize your lead bullet![/QUOTE]

I have noticed those case wall thickness variations, I like R-P brass with .358-.3585" diameter bullets and WSP.
I find that R-P is thinner walled at the case mouth compared to other brass and Federal primers seat way to easily.

I noticed PMC brass is thick and with a .3585" bullet it was a snug fit in my mod 36 chamber. So if a LFCD post sized these rounds and the bullet were re-sized I would expect a loss of neck tension on the bullet, the brass will have a bit of spring back the re-sized lead bullet would not.

Are you sure about this? My jacketed bullets are a close fit in the chamber mouth, but my 158 gr LSCs cannot be pushed into the chamber mouth.

I just assumed that this was normal since the the lead bullets tend to be about 0.001" larger in diameter than the jacketed bullets.

Maybe I need to rethink the lead, although they seem to shoot pretty well.