I'm on a mouse gun kick at the moment and have my eye on a used Beretta 21 chambered in .25 ACP to match the one I have in .22 LR. I have about 600 rounds of .25 ACP factory loaded ammo but no firearm to digest them. If I buy the Beretta (and I probably will) I will most certainly want to reload the .25 simply because I reload for everything that I own. Does anybody have any experience with this? How much trouble is this cartridge with its miniscule powder charges? Does anybody know if the Beretta will shoot cast bullets? If so, where would I be able to get a mold?

Dave Sinko

Dave, I loaded for 25 acp over thirty years ago. About all I can tell you is that it's a pain. My fumble fingers had problems handling the small cases and slugs. I used jacketed bullets only. My happiest day with the 25 was when I got rid of it. Sorry that I can't be of much help but this will get your question bumped back to the top.

I went though a mouse gun phase but limited to 32 acp and 380.

I personally do not see a use for the 25. The 32 ACP is tricky enough to load without crushing cases.

JMHO but I do not think a 25 is worth anything let alone reloading.

I would like a Berreta 32 myself.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I load for it, I do not find it much harder then anything else.
I have the RCBS Handgun Competition powder measure so the small charges do not bother me much.
It sure does not save me much as I do not really shoot them a lot.
The only reason is their terrible sights. I have a Ortigies and Colt junior and Colt 1908 and Browning Baby and Fraser copy.I think the guns are neat , But,
if I had a Beretta I would shoot it more as I really like my 22LR version and used to shoot my 32 Beretta a fair amount.The sights and grips are much nicer on Beretta.

Yes it is worth reloading for if you plan on doing much shooting at all with your gun. i have reloaded both jacketed and cast bullets with great results. my preferred powder is VV N310 but Bullseye also gives good results. Unless you have a very high quality powder measure that will deliver very consistent charges with the tiny powder charges required; you will need to weigh each charge because there is very little difference in a starting load and a max charge.

OK, this looks like it has potential. I have a decent supply of loaded ammo and brass that I have picked up and saved over the years. Magtech makes brass and bullets, and I also see a 35 gr. Gold Dot for sale. But what about casting? My RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1 has data for one cast bullet but I don't see any molds for sale in the Midway catalog. I was hoping that Lee makes some kind of tumble lube mold but I don't see one. I would NOT want to have to run these bullets through a Lubri-sizer.

I don't have high hopes for the cartridge in general. My impression is that the .22 is actually more effective but the centerfire .25 offers much more reliable ignition. It would serve a very limited role, but since I have the chance to get one and play around with it, why not?

Dave Sinko

If Beretta could work out the problems they've had with the TomCat's frame cracking then they'd be decent enough but until that I'd personally not touch one with a 20' poll. Same for the Nano, Beretta makes some great large semis but their efforts at compacts isn't so good, at least where the Tomcat and Nano are concerned.
As far as reloading the 25acp, sure if you plan on shooting it much but if not it'd probably be just as cheap to buy factory ammo and not put the money into dies and stuff. JMHO, YMMV.

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S&W M642-2,
ATI 1911a1, 4.25"

The Nano is so new, what bad reviews have you read on it?

I got to handle one at the shop and it appeared to be excellent quality.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Hello David. I am sure one of the distributors will have a bullet mold or you can go direct with the manufacturer. It doesn't have to be a tumble lube design to be tumble lubed.

Unless you find one on an auction site, you'll probably have to have a 25 acp mould custom made. Lyman & RCBS discontinued them long ago.

I just looked on the RCBS site and they are still listing at least 1 mold for the 25 ACP. I then checked Midway and they have it in stock. See Here.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Hmmm. How can this be? I said something wwwrong? I was wrong once before... sometime back in the '70s, I think it was. I want a recount, yeah! I want a recount.

Sorry about the bum info...

If I were you, I would shoot the 600 you already have before I made the plunge for reloading components . You might have a different point of view by then.

vic3620

I cracked the frame on a regular Tomcat when I ran some hotter 73gr rounds I bought for a CZ-70 through it and Beretta replaced it with the INOX version.
So far the INOX version has taken everything I've fed it.

Back on topic (almost).

I takes steady hands and keen eyesight to reload the small stuff, and I don't have either anymore, so I don't. 38 cal is as small as I go.

As for the 25acp being worth reloading, you'd have to shoot it a lot to make it worthwhile money-wise since the bullets and dies are scarce and come with a premium price tag, but shooting what you reload is sort of priceless if you enjoy reloading.

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Age + Treachery = JohnnieB

I have a few C&R .25s , but don't really shoot them much. I seem to find so many partial boxes of .25 ACP at gun shows and in the pre-owned bargain bins at gunshops for such low prices , I never even considered reloading them.

I love the .25 ACP and feel it is highly under rated and misunderstood.

I have a cheap Titan Tiger that is extremely accurate, even at extended ranges, and is very reliable with both jacketed and cast bullets. I don't have a mold for it, (which I'd like to rectify some day), but there is a local bullet caster that does.

The only down side to handloading them is the case is pretty small for my arthritic hands to hold. As others have mentioned you need a meter that is capapble of repeated accuracy with small powder charges and the Lyman no. 55 is perfect this. Or you can do them one at a time if you have the time and patience.

I looked yesterday and it wasn't in stock. Maybe they got a Saturday night truck in. Either that or i have lost my marbles and imagined it out of stock. But i don't think I imagined it. I took my meds and washed them down with whiskey to guard against the DT's


I have had two of those little Titan's. They both worked like a champ and were very accurate. For some dumb reason I don't have either of them anymore

Used to load 25s on a Dillon, mostly for sale at gunshows. I'd run through 3 or 4 hundred of the factory rds and decide if this was worth initial cost of dies, bullets, etc. I would probably reload it just because I enjoy time on my bench, whether its 25s or 45s

I bought the gun this morning. I was hoping it was a 21 like my .22, but this one is a 950. Since it lacks the DA function, it looks like cocked and locked will the be way to carry it. That could be a bit problematic, especially if I choose to carry it weak (left) handed in a pocket holding it with a shooting grip. I don't own or use any handgun with a safety that needs to be snicked off as it's brought into action.

The good news is that it fed and ejected all the 75 or so rounds of mixed ball ammo I had on hand. I had a few failures to fire with aluminum case/Berdan primed Blazer and GFL. I presume these have harder primers. Most everything else was Winchester and they fired just fine. I started with a bag of loose rounds and some of the headstamps were very hard to read. Recoil was more brisk than I had expected it to be for a .25.

I checked the Midway website and it said the mold is out of stock. And it's expensive! I'll hold off on the casting for now unless I can find something cheaper. Lee dies don't seem to be very expensive, and I'll stick with jacketed bullets first. I have enough brass, Federal primers and 231 to last forever, so I may as well take the plunge. In the grand scheme of things, 600 rounds of ammo isn't a lot or even enough to develop an informed opinion of a new gun.

Dave Sinko

Back off topic. The frame on the Inox version is still alloy, just like on the full size 92's and if you keep running hot ammo through it then it'll crack too eventually.

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S&W M642-2,
ATI 1911a1, 4.25"

Frame on INOX version is about 50% thicker, and yes, it is still an alloy, but an alloy consisting of what metals?
Last time I checked INOX was another word for Stainless Steel.

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Age + Treachery = JohnnieB

Stainless steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Still Running Against the Wind

I've got the dies and shell holder. I haven't used them in maybe 10 years. If the OP is buying, maybe we can deal. I think I also have some .25 FMJ bullets.

Its a pain to load. The little tiny bullets going into the equally tiny cases. I gave up and started using a needle nose pliers to hold the bullets until they'd moved up into the seating die. Not a system of volume reloading.

In all fairness, my reloads all fired without any failures. One group of 200 rounds was used to break in my employers Beretta. He bought 2 of them (never a guy to leave anything to chance). He was pulling a test on me and I didn't realize it till I brought his gun back to him. Basically, he kept one and sent one along with me to fire a couple of hundred rounds. The break in was pretty amazing. You could really tell the difference between the two guns. I have no idea if a few hundred more rounds would have made a difference. But I wasn't getting paid for my reloading efforts, so 200 was all I was willing to donate. They all fed as well as any factory ammo, which means flawlessly.

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Dick Burg

NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!

It's still an aluminum alloy, not a stainless steel alloy in the frame. Hit the Beretta forum and read up on this. I spend a lot of time over there when I had my 92F Compact and then when I got my PX4 Storm so I've seen plenty of threads about the Tomcat and it's problems.

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S&W M642-2,
ATI 1911a1, 4.25"

Unless the metallurgists at Beretta figured out how to get a magnet stick to an aluminum alloy, I'm baffled as to why a magnet sticks to the frame of my INOX Tomcat.

I have spent time on the Beretta forum and suspect the INOX Tomcat isn't getting the recognition and acceptance it truly deserves because of the inherent faults of its potmetal brothers and cousins. The really sad part is that an old, well established company like Beretta continues to market guns with known problems, which diminishes the reputation of the guns they produce that don't have those problems.

Back on topic, or closer to it , I can't remember if the Bobcat (same as metallurgy as the Non-INOX Tomcat) had any problems with cracks in the frames. Probably due to .25acp and .22lr being milder than .32acp. I had one in .25acp years ago, and wish I still had it, but wouldn't reload for it because the rounds are just too small for my big hands to manipulate.

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Age + Treachery = JohnnieB

While I enjoy fondling the 25s (in a GOOD way) the limited shooting I've done hasn't been very satisfying.

And 380 loading is even physical challenge for me.....9s are on the 'ain't much fun' list too...and 40s ain't far behind.

In fact, 44s & 45s are what Gawd had in mind when she invented shot & shell....so I prefer to stick with them that my sausage-pickers can handle...whilst my peepers can still see 'em well enough to pick up the one that leap somehow off the bench onto the floor....again...

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

My 1908 Colt in .25 ACP is the most inaccurate weapon I've ever fired. I have a Colt Jr. that's not that much better. I still have a few hundred rounds of .25 ACP. I don't see going through it that fast. I wouldn't even think about reloading .25 ACP. The cartridge is too small. I don't even reload .380.

I wish you luck with the Beretta! I am curious about how well other .25 ACP pistols shoot?

I'm also a fan of the itty bitty .25 pistols. Don't reload for them...yet.

But, enjoy shooting them and have found them to be quite accurate at 7 yard ranges.

From a recent outing - 7 yards, standing unsupported hold with Blazer ammo. 6 o'clock hold on the red dot.

Top row: Ortgie, Colt Jr, Beretta 418
Bottom row: Walther 8, Mauser 1910

Mauser is the most pleasant to shoot. Longer grip is much easier to hold and slide design won't bite your hand. Also has the longest barrel and sight radius.

Also have two of the Beretta 950's but in .22 short. One standard and one long barrel version. Exceptionally reliable and similar accuracy to the .25 guns.

Attached Images

25 cal test.JPG (41.2 KB, 328 views)

Oops! My Bad!

A magnet does not stick to the frame. It is a nonferrous alloy of some type.
I pulled the gun out of my pocket and touched a small, yet strong, magnet to the frame below the trigger guard and it stuck.
However, I don't carry empty guns, so it had a magazine in it and the magnet was actually sticking to the steel magazine through the nonferrous frame.

Sorry for posting erroneous information, and my only defense is that I thought I was correct at the time.

I still trust my INOX Tomcat to do its job if and when needed, and will suggest the INOX version of it to anyone interested in a mousegun for a pocket pistol.

FWIW: The same magnet doesn't stick to the frame of my S&W 637 either.

But, in any case, I'm old school and prefer metal to plastic.

Added: The barrel is stamped Stainless and the slide is definitely ferrous, maybe that is what Beretta is talking about when they use the word INOX.

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Age + Treachery = JohnnieB

I have no interest in or affiliated with these posting. This is for information only.
.25 ACP carbide dies from lee

Lee 25 ACP Carbide 3 Die Set Lee 90568 | eBay

.25 ACP bullet mold

TL256-50-RF Ranch Dog's TL256-57-RF [TL25650RF] - $60.00 : Ranch Dog Outdoors, Ranch Dog Outdoors - Lee Special Order Bullet Molds for Leverguns and semi-auto Handguns

Information on casting .25 ACP bullets

.25 acp mold - Cast Boolits

Using #3 buckshot instead of casting your bullets--- information

.25 ACP: Cheap, good load with No. 3 buckshot

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Semper FI

Q: Alan, why are you resurrecting an 18 month old thread on, of all things, reloading 25acp???

A: Because I just did an old friend a favor and bought his Gen-u-ine Eye-tal-yun Tanfoglio Model GT27 from him.

He found it among his Dad's stuff, unfired, with a box of Remington rounds. Ammo for this lil gem is as expensive as 45 ACP and it looks like a fun way to waste an evening. Or two.

Whose done it? From the posts above, I'm going to need steady hands (and maybe a pair of tweezers). Any tips on die brands (or anyone got a set they no longer need?), bullet profiles, etc. or is it much the same as any other caliber?

Thanks in advance.

I handload for .25 ACP and enjoy doing it. Years ago I bought a thousand Remington 51 grain round nose fmj component bullets and still am working on that supply. I've loaded a few boxes of other brands of component bullet over the years too. I've only experimented with Bulls-Eye and Unique. I would have thought the faster burning Bulls-Eye would have given the performance edge but Unique's the powder for use in .25 ACP. A whopping 1.8 grain charge, enough to not quite cover your thumb nail, will get you about 860 fps.

Mouse guns

I love mouse guns.

I just put a dreaded Tomcat on layaway a few days ago. Hope it doesn't break

My Nano hasn't broke yet.

I am actually one of the few that had a Seecamp break a hammer strut. But it was a bad batch of stainless steel.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I guess you never reload these rounds when you have a cold. One sneeze and you have a squid round. By the way is 1.8 a max charge and can you reduce that to make a powder puff load.

OUTSTANDING!

I'm thinking that photo would look awesome hanging in the reloading room.

I like the little guns, but I'm not reloading for them. It's hard enough on my eyes looking for .45 acp hulls. I'm not bending over for a .25 case.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

these might be safer


There is quite a bit of wisdom in these old threads

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I'd like to agree with you BUT

The small cases and bullets are great for the young guys with steady hands and good eye sight...........and are a lot of fun to shoot.

When I was around 45 I went with the 9mm as the smallest load I would mess with and now at 69 the 38 Special is as small as I want to load with my big hands and bifocals.

Enjoy it if you can..................
Low recoil is always a nice thing as well as killing paper and mice !!

Yeah, I'm almost 59 and starting to rethink this.

Nah - I'm goin' for it!

I'm placing a WTB ad in the classifieds for a set of dies - like everything else around here, they're scarce. Maybe someone needs some 9mm bullets in trade...

I wouldn't bother with it! I hope your Beretta 21 in 22 lr works better than mine did! Wasn't reliable at all. And, I tried many different types of ammo in it. Gladly traded it for a model 10-5 snubby awhile ago!

I'm 56 and fail to see what age has to do with having the facility to handload the .25 ACP which is a perfectly simple thing to do.

If a guy is devoted to owning and shooting a few .25 ACP pistols he might as well reload for the cartridge.

Three things about reloading the 25 ACP:
1. You will get used to handling the small cases.
2. Since powder charges are so small, use powders that measure uniformly.
3. Have something to catch the cases with.

I have been reloading this cartridge for a couple of months now. The small size of the bullets and cases is no problem at all. My main load is a lightly squashed pellet of #3 buckshot and 1.5 grs. of 231. I haven't had to use any of my brass cases yet because I find that the aluminum case Blazer (which is Boxer primed) can be loaded multiple times just fine. My Beretta 950BS feeds this and everything else flawlessly, which is amazing considering how picky my 21A is. And my handloads might be cheaper to shoot than .22 rimfire at this time.

That mousetrap photo is awesome!

Dave Sinko

If you have the dexterity to handle the itty-bitty cases and bullets, and, if you can find your ejected brass, why not? The little guns look like they could be fun to shoot!

I am just starting to try. and load 25 acpI. I've loaded 9 & 10 mm, as well as 25-06.
However, the first round i tried to "de-prime" bent the extractor pin!
I do have have the correct die (Lee die set). I'm wondering if it was nust the brass that had the primer stuck unusually hard, or if this is normal?
I've deprimed many rounds and have never had the pin bend like this.
I must confess i used a little more pressure than normal in trying to get the primer out, but never expected it to be that difficult.
Thanks for any advice you may have.

Did you make sure that the case is Boxer primed? (as opposed to Berdan priming). The Boxer will have a central flash hole, the Berdan will have 2 or 3 non central holes. Welcome to the forum, most of the time it's better to ask a question by starting a new post rather than tacking a question on the end of a year and a half old thread.

My guess is that you probably have some European case with a Berdan primer. If so, reloading is a lost cause. I carry a .25 auto as my CCW, mainly because it weighs nearly nothing and fits into my front pants pocket without showing. I figure if I ever need it, it will be up close and very personal, and its 6 shots will be enough. No plans whatsoever to get into a gunfight. Mine is completely reliable only with CCI Blazer ammunition with 50 grain FMJ bullets, so that's what I use. Other brands are not so reliable, and I have tried about all of them. No way I would consider reloading the .25 ACP. Far too much hassle, and probably inconsistent results.

Common knowledge is that .25 50 grain FMJ bullets are preferable to any other, as effectiveness of the .25 ACP is more a matter of deeper penetration into vital areas than anything else, such as bullet expansion (which probably doesn't happen anyway), and the 50 grain FMJ has the deepest penetration.

if the 25 managed to spawn a longer, higher pressure version of itself, and was offered in frames ranging from mouse guns to full service pistols .. I'd be game.
it would be a fun, useful, and economical little feller to scare the 22LR to death.

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it just needs more voltage

There is such a critter:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.25_NAA