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Old 02-10-2012, 06:42 PM
palmetto99 palmetto99 is offline
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Default 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp

Ok, I seem to be having a little trouble getting my sizing correct for plated 230grn round noce 45acp and was wondering if a 4-die set might work a little better. The brass cuts into the bullet. I don't seem to have a problem with FMJ in 45acp (or 9mm) when using the 3-die set.

Using a single stage RCBS.

What are most folks using with a single stage.

Thank you all.
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:46 PM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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If the brass is cutting into the bullet, you need to flare the case mouth more to accept the base of the bullet easier.
I think with a 4 die set, the 4th die is for taper crimping, whereas the 3rd die is for a roll crimp.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrafsr View Post
If the brass is cutting into the bullet, you need to flare the case mouth more to accept the base of the bullet easier.
I think with a 4 die set, the 4th die is for taper crimping, whereas the 3rd die is for a roll crimp.
The Lee 4 die set is exactly that. If the brass is cutting into the bullet during seating, flare more. DO NOT use the FCD to finish, crappy product & all it does is mess w/ accuracy, especially w/ plated bullets. If the "cutting" is after the crimp, too much crimp. This also messes w/ accuracy.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:04 AM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
The Lee 4 die set is exactly that. If the brass is cutting into the bullet during seating, flare more. DO NOT use the FCD to finish, crappy product & all it does is mess w/ accuracy, especially w/ plated bullets. If the "cutting" is after the crimp, too much crimp. This also messes w/ accuracy.
Wow, why would you not use the Lee FCD die to finish? I find it to be the the answer to feeding and crimping problems, especially with plated bullets.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:13 AM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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In a single stage, as well as my Dillon, I always crimp separately after seating the bullet. If you're using a die that performs both operations simultaneously then the result can be damaged bullets.

As a side note I'm a Huge fan of Redding dies. But, I've also bought some Lee dies (I told myself it would never happen) and found them to work just fine.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:40 AM
sbeatty1983 sbeatty1983 is offline
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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I havnt had any problems with the 4 die lee 45 acp. Flare a bit more. Ive used plated and cast. Both feed well and accuracy is fine.
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:01 AM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
DO NOT use the FCD to finish, crappy product & all it does is mess w/ accuracy, especially w/ plated bullets.
My mileage varies quite a bit from yours.
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:24 AM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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I use the Lee 4 die set for most of my handgun reloading and they work just fine... I haven't had any accuracy problems when using the FCD.
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:08 AM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
The Lee 4 die set is exactly that. If the brass is cutting into the bullet during seating, flare more. DO NOT use the FCD to finish, crappy product & all it does is mess w/ accuracy, especially w/ plated bullets. If the "cutting" is after the crimp, too much crimp. This also messes w/ accuracy.


I disagree completely.

The LFCD for semi auto calibers taper crimps and can not be over crimped to screw up headspace.. The revolver version roll crimps.

Both can be set to crimp exactly how you want.

Some folks complain that it resizes lead bullets and makes them too small for their bores/cylinders. I have never slugged a bore or cylinder and do not seem to have a problem with any lead bullets in any caliber.

If Dillon made one it would be the greatest invention since sliced bread.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:41 PM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post


I disagree completely.

The LFCD for semi auto calibers taper crimps and can not be over crimped to screw up headspace.. The revolver version roll crimps.

Both can be set to crimp exactly how you want.

Some folks complain that it resizes lead bullets and makes them too small for their bores/cylinders. I have never slugged a bore or cylinder and do not seem to have a problem with any lead bullets in any caliber.

If Dillon made one it would be the greatest invention since sliced bread.
I can't agree more... Like I said above, I have never had a accuracy problem when using a Lee FCD.
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:42 PM
amazingflapjack amazingflapjack is offline
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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I find a propperly sized hard cast lead bullets of about 18BHN preclude my need for any kind on jacket. Cylinder throat size is the key measurement in my experience. Lee FCD is a great tool, especially for revolvers. I did have a situation with my 1006 where I had to eliminate the FCD stage, and just use 3 stages.
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:56 PM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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I like the separate seating and crimping dies. Also check the flaring to make sure the plated bullets sit straight in the brass.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:49 PM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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I use 4 dies for the 45acp and have no problems.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:02 PM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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Seat the bullet then crimp in a seperate step. This works better in all reloading but especially with cast or plated bullets...they are softer . You dont need a seperate die ... just back out the seat/crimp die untill it does not crimp and seat all the bullets. Then remove or back out the seating stem and crimp all the bullets . It may be a pain to adjust the die for each step but it does result in a little better crafted ammo . Reloading cast bullet handgun ammo , auto or revolver just about requires the two steps to be done seperately.

Hope this helps....gary
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:52 PM
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If you've done everthing right you don't need a Lee FCD.

Seat and crimp in two seperate steps and if you are getting too much crimp, adjust your dies so it doesn't do it as much.

On a single stage press I use the seat/crimp die to do both steps seperately. On a progressive I usually use a standard Lee seat/crimp die to perform the crimp operation after the bullet was seated in a previous step.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:02 AM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post


I disagree completely.

The LFCD for semi auto calibers taper crimps and can not be over crimped to screw up headspace.. The revolver version roll crimps.

Both can be set to crimp exactly how you want.

Some folks complain that it resizes lead bullets and makes them too small for their bores/cylinders. I have never slugged a bore or cylinder and do not seem to have a problem with any lead bullets in any caliber.

If Dillon made one it would be the greatest invention since sliced bread.
^^^This. Especially the last part...

Actually I believe Dillon does make a taper crimp die. I could be wrong....

EDIT: Aha! From Big Blue's website...

Quote:
NOTE: All Dillon Pistol Die sets include our sizer/ decap die, seat die and a separate crimp die. (Taper crimp for autos; accu-crimp for revolvers.)

Last edited by Fishslayer; 02-12-2012 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:12 AM
Chubbs103 Chubbs103 is offline
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellybean View Post
If you've done everthing right you don't need a Lee FCD.

Seat and crimp in two seperate steps and if you are getting too much crimp, adjust your dies so it doesn't do it as much.

On a single stage press I use the seat/crimp die to do both steps seperately. On a progressive I usually use a standard Lee seat/crimp die to perform the crimp operation after the bullet was seated in a previous step.
I concur. I seat and crimp in separate steps using a three die set as well. I have a spare lock ring that I add to my seat/crimp die. It acts as a spacer. I add it, then set my seating depth with a dummy round I keep for the purpose. I then seat my rounds. Afterwards, I remove the extra lock ring off the bottom and crimp.

Chubbs
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:06 PM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishslayer View Post
^^^This. Especially the last part...

Actually I believe Dillon does make a taper crimp die. I could be wrong....

EDIT: Aha! From Big Blue's website...
Yes, but does it fully resize (post size) or just crimp?
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:48 PM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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I did these on my Dillon last night. 230 gr Berry's plated. I don't know how the taper crimp is classified but this is what they look like.


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Old 02-17-2012, 12:26 PM
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishslayer View Post
^^^This. Especially the last part...

Actually I believe Dillon does make a taper crimp die. I could be wrong....

EDIT: Aha! From Big Blue's website...
My dillon pumps out beautiful 45 ACP ammo for quite a few years now. It taper crimps the cases in the 4th stage. Also does a fine job on shorty forties as well......... Have a new question re loading 45 auto rim for my old 1917 Smith and Colt. Are the loads the same as 45 ACP while keeping the pressures low ??
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:42 PM
john16443 john16443 is offline
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3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp 3-die set vs. 4-die set for 45acp  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palmetto99 View Post
Ok, I seem to be having a little trouble getting my sizing correct for plated 230grn round noce 45acp and was wondering if a 4-die set might work a little better. The brass cuts into the bullet. I don't seem to have a problem with FMJ in 45acp (or 9mm) when using the 3-die set.

Using a single stage RCBS.

What are most folks using with a single stage.

Thank you all.
Are you getting shavings of the plating or are you getting a cut ring through the plating around the bullet at the top of the case? These symptoms are caused by different things.

Cut ring through plating is caused by applying TOO MUCH crimp. Readust your current die accordingly and you're good to go.

Shaving the plating off as the bullet is inserted could be caused by too little flare as noted, but can also be caused by improper adjustment of the seater/crimp die.

You indicate you have no problems with FMJ, so I think some minor adjustment of your current seater/crimp die should solve your issues. I separate the seating and crimping operations, but still have to make minor adjustments when crimping plated vs. FMJ bullets, and when loading different brass headstamps.
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