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  #1  
Old 02-21-2012, 10:25 AM
ldhunter1959 ldhunter1959 is offline
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Default Clean burning powder for .45 acp/9 mm

I have been using Winchester WSF for loading 9mm and .45 acp and it seems to dirty up the works after sustained use. I use the HP-38 for my .38 and .357 and it is not much better. Any suggestions for a cleaner burning powder? A little dirty for the revolvers is not a big deal as gun cleaning is a lot simpler, but definitely would be interested in some options for my semi-auto loads.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:38 AM
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I use Winchester 231 for 9mm, 40, and 45ACP. It's not too dirty but the bottom line is your going to have to clean your guns. I don't think if you shoot 50 or 100 rounds you need to rush home and clean your guns. Just use common sense and you will OK. Don
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:40 AM
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Anything that burns will leave "dirt" Most powders if used at the lower rates are dirty and burn more complete at the upper end of the load range. HP 38 is a prime example.

For 9mm and 40 SW, I have been using Power Pistol and it leaves just a light grey ash. Have not tried it 45.

Are you shooting lead or jacketed? Most of the "dirt" is from the lube on lead bullets.

As to cleaning, one or two more patches is no biggy to me. I clean them anyway
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:40 AM
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I use alliant Claydot. Generally regarded as hodgdon clays clone. Try that or clays. Use hodgdon loading info. I'm using 2.5 gr for 148 gr hbwc in. 38, and 3.4 gr with 185 gr and 200 gr in. 45....
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:45 AM
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I think a clean burning powder in reloading is a myth. Light loads are the worst with mid to max better. The store bought stuff shoots cleaner because most use some type of blended powders or a type not offered to the public for reloading.

Just take a few rags and some Handi-Wipes and have fun. If you're shooting lead bullets the lube could also be part of the problem. I think it's just the price you pay for getting to shoot cheaper bullets.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldhunter1959 View Post
I have been using Winchester WSF for loading 9mm and .45 acp and it seems to dirty up the works after sustained use. I use the HP-38 for my .38 and .357 and it is not much better. Any suggestions for a cleaner burning powder? A little dirty for the revolvers is not a big deal as gun cleaning is a lot simpler, but definitely would be interested in some options for my semi-auto loads.
You did not mention the bullets you were using. With lead bullets even the cleanest burning powders will produce burned lube and lead residue.

I use jacketed or plated bullets in 9mm using Bullseye or WSF which burn quite clean at 9mm pressures. I have used VV N-320 and VV N-330 which do burn a bit cleaner in 9mm.

In 45 ACP you have to use a faster burning powder than WSF for cleaner burning at the lower 45ACP pressures. I use WST, American Select, or VV N-310.

One should also realize that mild loads will tend not to burn as clean as loads approching max loadings for the selected powder.

Personally I do not understand the fascination with clean burning. All it takes is a wipe on the outside with a rag or the barrel and chambers with a bore brush to remove most residue. I shoot matches with 300 round counts without cleaning the gun in between stages - I do clean the gun after the match.

Last edited by TSQUARED; 02-21-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:16 AM
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WSF usually works well in 9mm and 40S&W because both operate at relatively higher pressures. It meters great and is fairly economical to use. I also like it in 45ACP, the old "one powder" approach, and get some of my best accuracy from it. I find that it is at its best at max listed loads, however. WST may be better at lower level loads.

WSF also seems to work pretty well with cast bullets, but no cast bullet load will shoot particularly "clean" with any powder due to the nature of the bullet/lube.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:37 AM
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I use HP-38, have loaded thousands of rounds with it and it is a fairly 'clean' burning powder that gives good all around results.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:08 PM
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I use Titegroup in my 45 but I advise caution.

There are quite a few folks here who simply will not allow a jug of this stuff on their benches for two reasons:
1) It is a very low volume powder and as such a double charge will easily fit in the case. Keep yer eye on the ball!
2) It is a very fast burning powder and reaches peak pressure quickly. It is imperative that you start at the low end and work your way up. As you approach maximum load the probability of an oops increases exponentially.

My 9's eat whatever I feed them.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:13 PM
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I like ramshot zip,very clean and meters well, though i just got a 8lb jug of unique
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:13 PM
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The other day I was shooting some light target loads in my 25-2 (230 gr. plated), some with WSF and some with WST. The WSF left a very noticeable amount of residue in the cases, but the WST cases were completely clean, not a trace of residue. Lately I have been using WST exclusively for .45.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blujax01 View Post
I use Titegroup in my 45 but I advise caution.

There are quite a few folks here who simply will not allow a jug of this stuff on their benches for two reasons:
1) It is a very low volume powder and as such a double charge will easily fit in the case. Keep yer eye on the ball!
2) It is a very fast burning powder and reaches peak pressure quickly. It is imperative that you start at the low end and work your way up. As you approach maximum load the probability of an oops increases exponentially.

My 9's eat whatever I feed them.
TiteGroup causes leading issues with many cast bullets too.
If you are CAREFUL it works well for .45 ACP, however I went back to Bullseye.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:47 PM
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If you are using lead bullets, they are the cause of the majority of the "dirt." Change to plated or jacketed bullets. I use 231 in my 45 and Power Pistol in my 9mm and 40.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:49 PM
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I love bullseye for 45acp.It meters so well that I only check the weight after every 20 charges,since it is the only powder i use the entire inside of my dispinser has a solid coat of powder.One old reloader told me "they don't call it bullseye for nothing"
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:00 PM
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I've had good luck with Bullseye in both calibers. I use plated bullets for both and clean up for the powder residue is nothing more than quick wipe with a slightly oily shop rag.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:03 PM
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Bullseye......
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:23 PM
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Default Win 231

Not too dirty at all BUT I do clean my weapons after using them. That`s what you`re supposed to do!.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:13 AM
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Thanks for the responses. I do shoot "cheap" and therefore load mostly hardened lead bullets, so those suggesting my bullets are the biggest culprit are probably correct.
Being pretty new to reloading - only for about a year now - I was "throwing out" my powders to see if perhaps I was using something viewed as exceptionally dirty. Also, as these have been the only two powder I have used, looking for some suggestions for changing.
I do tend to load at the lower to mid-level for my semi-auto loads. With the lee disks you seem to be restricted a lot - bought an adjustable charge bar recently, but have not read up much on how it works, only that it apparently gives me a little bit more control over my loads.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:32 AM
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Bullseye or unique, in combination with cast bullets, do get your gun and hands dirty.I've been reloading for so long,I just see it as part of the experience.The fllthiest loads I've put together were american pioneer powder ( bp substitute ) in a 45 colt.Two cylinders and the entire gun is covered in soot!
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:38 AM
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I've used American Select in .45 ACP and 9mm. It is a clean burning alternative to Bullseye.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldhunter1959 View Post
Thanks for the responses. I do shoot "cheap" and therefore load mostly hardened lead bullets, so those suggesting my bullets are the biggest culprit are probably correct.
Being pretty new to reloading - only for about a year now - I was "throwing out" my powders to see if perhaps I was using something viewed as exceptionally dirty. Also, as these have been the only two powder I have used, looking for some suggestions for changing.
I do tend to load at the lower to mid-level for my semi-auto loads. With the lee disks you seem to be restricted a lot - bought an adjustable charge bar recently, but have not read up much on how it works, only that it apparently gives me a little bit more control over my loads.
Well, there ya go

If you were to shoot jacketed bullets (not saying you should) with the same powders you would see (or not see) a big difference. The lube tends to hold onto all the carbon and "stuff". I use HP 38/W 231 for pretty much any and all calibers and bullets. It works well. I see no reason to change.
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Old 02-22-2012, 12:28 PM
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I use Bullseye and Universal Clays both meter great with the Lee Pro Auto Disk. I think good metering powders is high on my list. I just reload for 9mm,38/357 45 acp and 45 Colt and have all my loads covered with these two powders. I'm thinking of trying a slower powder for the 45 Colt and 357 but haven't decided what to use just yet. But I know what ever I try it will have to meter well.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawgleg View Post
I use Bullseye and Universal Clays both meter great with the Lee Pro Auto Disk. I think good metering powders is high on my list. I just reload for 9mm,38/357 45 acp and 45 Colt and have all my loads covered with these two powders. I'm thinking of trying a slower powder for the 45 Colt and 357 but haven't decided what to use just yet. But I know what ever I try it will have to meter well.
HP 38 will do it all. Perhaps not full house 357 Mags but good enough for comfortable shooting works very well in 45 Colt. 2400 works well for 357 Mag and meters well.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:26 PM
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I use hodgdon clays for 9mm,9mm Federal,40,38 special,44 special, reduced loads in 44 mag, 45 acp and 12 ga. burns good n clean even with lead bullets. The guys at the indoor range were happy when I switched from titegroup for sure.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAdoublegunner View Post
WSF usually works well in 9mm and 40S&W because both operate at relatively higher pressures. It meters great and is fairly economical to use. I also like it in 45ACP, the old "one powder" approach, and get some of my best accuracy from it. I find that it is at its best at max listed loads, however. WST may be better at lower level loads.

WSF also seems to work pretty well with cast bullets, but no cast bullet load will shoot particularly "clean" with any powder due to the nature of the bullet/lube.
^^THIS^^ WSF is really quite "clean" as to carbon deposits. It doesn't do well w/ bunnyfart loads, so if you want light loads, go faster. WST is a really great choice for any 45acp std pressure load, any bullet wt or type. In 9mm, you can't get to full power loads w/ WST & reasonable pressures, but pretty close & for 50fps less vel, it's also a great performer w/ any bullet wt or type.
W231/HP38 falls way short for the magnums or 45colt, you are better off w/ the WSF or sim medium burner IMO. For full power loads in the magnums or heavy 45colt, 2400 works great.

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Old 02-26-2012, 06:00 AM
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You aren't going to find any powders cleaner than WSF or HP-38/W231 so you just might have to change bullets.

I was about to suggest AA#5 until I saw you post on using inexpensive lead bullets. Even though i have never found HP-38 to be dirty I was going to suggest AA#5 because it's also very clean.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:30 PM
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Clays is clean and safe. Titegroup is clean and great for double-charges.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:48 PM
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RDot for cast and PP for jacketed is what I use.
RDot is low-flash too. PP sure ain't
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:50 PM
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45 acp is what I load

Clean burners for me...

WW452AA
WW231
Bullseye
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
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I think a clean burning powder in reloading is a myth. Light loads are the worst with mid to max better. The store bought stuff shoots cleaner because most use some type of blended powders or a type not offered to the public for reloading.
Great advice. Any powder that is loaded near max will help the brass to seal in the chamber and minimize the grit that gets in the action.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawgleg View Post
I think a clean burning powder in reloading is a myth. Light loads are the worst with mid to max better. The store bought stuff shoots cleaner because most use some type of blended powders or a type not offered to the public for reloading.

Just take a few rags and some Handi-Wipes and have fun. If you're shooting lead bullets the lube could also be part of the problem. I think it's just the price you pay for getting to shoot cheaper bullets.
Although I think too much emphasis is put on clean burning powders, you couldn't be more wrong. There are some powders out there that really burn very cleanly. I've tried e3 in light target .45 ACP rounds. It is incredibly clean. American Select is very clean.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:14 PM
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Bullseye in 45acp-38spl-40cal
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:16 AM
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I agree with most of the posts concerning the use of hardcast lead as being the primary cause of crud in my my own guns. As for powders, I like Titegroup because it's not position sensitive and gives me a good mid-range load. Yes, you have to be careful with any low bulk powder to not double charge! For my warmer 9mm and .45 loads, I like AA#7. No holy grail here, just weighing in on what I like. Oh yea....welcome to and enjoy the wonderful world of reloading!
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:30 AM
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In selecting a "clean" powder, one thing that you should keep in mind besides operating pressure is load density, particularly with autoloading pistol cartridges. Choosing a powder that fills the case to the base of the bullet is desireable for several reasons, not the least of which is that it prevents overcharges but more importantly helps check bullet setback in case of a poor crimp.

I first started considering this when loading for 357 Sig, a somewhat more difficult auto pistol cartridge to load for. It has a short neck, the bullets often are just beginning their ogive curve at the point where crimping for max OAL is reached, and the bottleneck itself makes proper crimp setting difficult unless done in a separate step. Having a case nearly full of powder helps to prevent setback during crimping, and may aid in lessening it as the bullet is driven into the feed ramp.

I think most of the problems I have seen with 45ACP, for example, came with the use of low load density powders coupled with a poor crimp. If setback occurs, you could go high order. In the 357 Sig, it can become a significant issue quickly. So in trying to get the "cleanest" burn, be cautious against selecting a low load density fast powder that leaves a lot of air in the case. It is better to pick a powder that burns better at its preferred or max operating pressure but provides a full case than one which is low loading density, imho.

Of course, with cast bullets, some powders burn "hotter" or have progressive burning characteristics that are slower to reach max pressures to give good obturation and seal, thus cause volatilization of the bullet base and lead redeposition in the throat or first part of the bore. Thus, bad leading. That is one of the reasons you will see that I rarely use or advocate Unique any longer. I had far more problems getting it to do what I wanted without a lot of leading, especially with variable hardness commercial cast bullets, than other powders that burned "cleaner".
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Last edited by VAdoublegunner; 02-27-2012 at 09:35 AM. Reason: can't seem to spell today
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:03 AM
deanodog deanodog is offline
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Bullseye, unique and 2400 loads everything I reload. They are the only powders I use in pistol rounds.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:15 PM
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AA Nitro 100 works great in the 45acp with 3.8gr under a 200gr. LSW bullet. Very accurate and clean burning. Just DO NOT try and use it in the 9mm because it is way too energetic with the small 9mm case capacity. I know from experience this to be true. My P95DC and I survived is all I will say. Thanks Ruger for making a super strong pistol.

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Old 02-28-2012, 09:49 PM
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I use titegroup and good basic loading techniques such as powdering one shell casing at a time and moving cases from one tray to another. I've had no over charges and have loaded and shot thousands of 45's. It burns as clean as any powder I have tried. And when I am loading I pay strict attention to detail no distractions no TV no kids and I have yelled at the dog when he had to go out. Its about saftey and its my saftey so its I take it very serious.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:10 PM
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As my collection of .45s has grown it has become evident to me that reloading is in my future... that's my crystal ball forecast and l'm sticking to it! It's been educational to read through this thread! Once again forum members thoughtfully sharing their expertise have opened Pandora's box. Thanks gentlemen!
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanodog View Post
Bullseye, unique and 2400 loads everything I reload. They are the only powders I use in pistol rounds.
+1!
Bullseye is terrific for both 45ACP and 9mm. The dirt that it does generate is easy to clean off both brass and gun. I used to use 231, but found that it left a gritty deposit that was difficult to get rid of.
Unique works well in the 45ACP too. I have never tried it in 9mm.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:36 PM
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Bullseye-38 special and 45 acp

Unique-45 acp,45 colt,mild to medium 44 magnum

2400-357 magnum,44 magnum
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:46 AM
ldhunter1959 ldhunter1959 is offline
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I started looking at some of the other options mentioned, particularly bullseye. When I refer to the loading guide for alliant for all of my calibers, the bullet/projectile options are pretty limited, frequently hollow points, semi-wad cutters, etc.
Is there a better reference? I am referring to the alliant powder catalog.
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Old 02-07-2016, 02:14 PM
Ozarkbully Ozarkbully is offline
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Default Range Powders for Jacketed Bullets - 9-38-45

Been using Bullseye, mid range loads, and not really that dirty. I clean while I watch TV, and the .38 takes 2 minutes. What I don't need is double drops!
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Old 02-07-2016, 03:23 PM
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I use all jacketd in 9mm, and plated, or jacketed in 45 auto. Power pistol in both, hardball level or better. Lilgun , and 2400 in 44 mag, jacketed and cast, respectively.
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Old 02-07-2016, 04:39 PM
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I found a recipe for 5 grain of Bullseye behind a 90 g rain hollow point for my Ruger p-95 and before loading a lot of them, I took a few out they did well and I just cleaned it. Found it wasn't dirty.Not as dirty as RedDot. Of course I like 115/124grain in my 9 but the 90 grain was good on paper.

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Old 02-07-2016, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5 View Post
+1!
Bullseye is terrific for both 45ACP and 9mm. The dirt that it does generate is easy to clean off both brass and gun. I used to use 231, but found that it left a gritty deposit that was difficult to get rid of.
Unique works well in the 45ACP too. I have never tried it in 9mm.
I like Bullseye in my .38 special and 9 mm.
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:54 PM
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American Select was mentioned several times here. I used it exclusively for trap loads for many years. I started reloading 45 acp about the time that the great powder debacle hit and Bullseye became unobtainium. I think Jerry Miculek said in a video that he used AS for his 45 acp loads. I had a hard time finding load data (it didn't exist) but persevered.

Eventually I worked up a load that I like and I continue to use it. Bullseye is great powder but AS burns cleaner. Alliant still doesn't have load data for 200 and 230 gr bullets but I can assure you that you can safely load it mild to wild for those bullets.

The stuff almost seems like it's made for 45 acp.

I don't load 9mm so no experience there.
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:01 PM
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I use Unique in my 45'ACP'S and 45Colt. It can get a bit dirty if you go with minimum charges.
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:28 PM
noonster noonster is offline
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I'm amazed at the variety of clean-burners out there. I shot some Winchester 45's a couple years ago that left the fired shell shiny clean after shooting. Whatever they use in those rounds would be to stuff to find. Pity I don't know what it is, but they advertise it as clean stuff.
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357 magnum, 38spl, 45acp, bullseye, colt, commercial, crimp, ruger, sig arms, universal, winchester

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