Heavy 45 Colt in Governor

I have a friend who has a Governor. I gave him some of my 45 Colt reloads to shoot. He would like some with more spunk for camping in black bear country.

Does anybody push anything like 260gr at 1000 fps thru the Governor? If so will you share the info?

The ones I gave him were 8.5 Unique w/240 SWC. It hits about 825 in my 4”, never chronoed in the Gov.

The ones I gave him felt like a fast 45acp.

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Shoot fast & live long
Warren

The Governor is no SW MT Gun nor a Ruger. I would be hesitant to use really hot loads in it. This two article will give some "food for thought" I use the 8 grs of Unique in my Mt Gun and it is more than sufficient for me.


Gunnotes...Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5

The 45 Colt

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Still Running Against the Wind

If the gun is rated to handle +P 45ACP loads, then it should also handle 45 Colt loads in the same pressure range.

That should get you pretty close to the required specifications.

Looking at Brian Pearce's article on the 45 Colt in Handloader #217, I see that a 255gr Lyman 454424 cast with 12.5gr of HS-6 gives 1113fps in a 5.5" barrel. This is in the 16-19Kpsi load range section. Another classic load is 20.0gr 4227 with a 250gr cast bullet for around 1000fps in a 5.5" barrel.

There are a number of other loads in the 23Kpsi category section, which is in 45ACP+P load territory, including one 300gr cast bullet load at nearly 1000fps. You do not want jacketed bullets, I would think, either for performance or to stay within safe pressure ranges.

I have no idea what the 'extra long throating' might do to velocities or if it is an issue with shooting these loads since they were developed for standard 45 Colt chambers. However, I would suspect that if S&W rates it for 45ACP+P that would be your guide and therefore anything in the 16-19Kpsi range is safely within that.

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" I said, good DAY! "

Is it +P 45 ACP rated? What velocity will be achieved from a 2.75" barrel?

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Still Running Against the Wind

I will see him tonight and find out if it is rated for 45acp+P.

Good advice, wish I had thought of that.

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Warren

Even if it is +P rated it still has a short barrel and is a alloy frame gun.

Kinda like shooting a 357 Mag out of a scandium J frame.

I have no need to push my M 25 Mt Gun hard for Bears but still would not use some of those loads mentioned in the articles I linked. A Ruger or Freedom Arms yes.

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Still Running Against the Wind

The Gov is rated for +P. We decided to bump it up a bit to experiment. shoot a couple, keep the rest for backpacking. He backpack camps in Vermont and needs something light. The toughest critter he will run into is a black bear or love sick moose.

I will run some over the chrono and post it.

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Warren

My Governor owner's manual says it is rated for 45 acp +p.

I'm very interested in loads you come up with for the heavier cast bullets.

Well, this is my opinion, you can run 45ACP +P in it and what is that PSI/CUP rating? I would NOT go above that for one reason, well, two.

#1 is the two piece barrel. Not a big fan of that regardless. #2 is the flash shield. There have been reports of those coming off with regular loads in other systems of the same configuration. No thanks.

Now, that doesn't mean that you can't go up to the +P in my opinion. I think it is around the 20,000psi mark and Bryan Pearce has some really good 45Colt loads in that range.

You have to get a hold of the data from Handloader Magazine #246 where he tears the subject apart. It is a mandated read for reloading the 45 Colt, in my opinion again.

The one load that sticks out to me is the RCBS 45-270SAA (the bullet used for all loads in the article), that is around 285gr as cast, with HS-6 and they turned in over 1100fps! Now, I cannot remember the length of barrel that they used to test them with, but it was "normal", in the 4"-6" range.

It won't turn that from the short Governor but, it will still be a formidable round, nonetheless.

Then again, I have a 45ACP load that throws a 240gr LSWC out of a 4" tube at that same velocity so....................

FWIW

Only flake powders too, again, in my opinion.

I'd be very careful with higher pressure 45 Colt loads in the Govenor. 45acp +p loads are still well short of upper end 45 Colt 'Ruger Only' loads. I de have 45 Colt experience with my 2 Rugers, but load the lower to mid(standard pressure) spectrum for my buddies 'Judge',(yes I know it's not the Govner).

Thanks for that info! I got that issue and that is exactly what I was looking for...a bear whacker hardcast at pressures that won't tear up my gun.

Now I just have to put some together and see how they work!

One thing nice about the Governor; it is small enough to have in your hand, down the bear's throat, and still get the trigger pulled, being double action and all!

Be safe out there!

I agree with not trying to make Ruger only work in the Smith, that was not the plan. I'm just going to bring it up a bit like a 45acp+P. Still don't have it done yet, need to catch up on 40S&W and I have been socializing on the forum a lot.

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Warren

I think I would pick something a little less anemic if I was really concerned about black bear attacks and especially MOOSE!! most don't realize how big how agile and tough a peeved moose can be, they are much more dangerous than a black bear, which is not to be taken LIGHTLY either, (LIGHTLY) no pun intended.

if you do get around to it please give some results, as I have never seen one of these type of revolvers with there cavernous chambers shoot better than patterns out to 25 yards or so. I have seen a few and a pop can at 10 yards is a challenge, so please let us know the outcome??

I have some results.

load---------------------------Governor-------4" 25
260gr RNFP---6.2 Titegroup-----709--------- 780
260gr RNFP---6.5 Titegroup-----751----------805
260gr RNFP---8.5 Unique--------836----------899
260gr RNFP---8.8 Unique--------851----------916

I'm not going to go any hotter. My friend is happy and it is pretty snappy at 850 fps. I would feel pretty good hiking around with it here in the eastern mountains.

A couple bear hunters were going on about the 45 Colt not being enough gun and on and on BUT, we are not talking about hunting bears, we are talking about a light weight revolver he already has to hike with.

I would bet in the last 130+ years many many black bears have been done in with a 45 Colt with no damage to it's owner.

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Shoot fast & live long
Warren

That 8.8 gr load must be a BEAR out of the Governor

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Still Running Against the Wind

I think a .45 Colt would be enough on a black bear given correct shot placement and the bullet used it ok. A good cast bullet would do ok, but so wouldn't a good .357 with a good bullet (has done so in the past). A moose, well having seen them up close can tell you that when they want to move, they can do so with ease and can cover alot of ground really quickly. Tell you friend he should be practicing out to 25 yards and trying to put all of his shots in something the size of a paper plate. Remember that if a human can cover 21 feet (7 yards in under 2 seconds) how fast do you think a bear or moose can cover the same distance? I would not want to let either of those two animals any closer than that.

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Vaya con Dios

I know what you are saying about Moose, I was driving my old ugly van thru the mountains of Wyoming a few years ago wearing some loose fitting moccasins because they were comfortable to drive in.

I saw a moose feeding in a creek about a hundred yards off the road so I quickly stopped grabbed my Nikon and started down the creek bank to get some nice photo’s. it was snowing lightly (late spring) and just beautiful.

A car with three girls was behind me and saw me get out with the camera so they are now trailing behind me a ways. Now these loose fitting moccasins are real loose and I had to kind of curl my toes to keep them from falling off as I was slowly moving thru the high grass and low brush getting pix of Mr. Moose.

The moose moves off and starts thru the heavily treed forest towards a meadow a bit further away from the van, the young girls are still behind me taking pix too and now I’m using all my Cherokee skills :-) to move thru the forest getting nice photo’s and impressing the ladies.

Well Mr. Moose breaks into the meadow, it is really pretty with some wild flowers and falling snow so I stop at about the tree line so I don’t spook him into running off (he has been watching me the whole time, my Cherokee skills are way past their prime) the ladies are still 100 feet back or so when Mr. Moose alerts, turns his head to look off to my left, then bolts at full clip (fast as a horse) towards the tree line to my right!

Oh man! I’m trying to think of all the things that would scare the bejesus out of a moose and none of them seem like anything I want to meet up with right now either!

I run towards the van, now a few hundred yards back and yell for the girls to run too. Those stupid moccasins are trying to come off so I’m running with my toes curled and jumping logs and rocks etc. all the while knowing we are closer to whatever scared the moose than the moose is, and going slower and louder!

I never did see what scared the moose, decided never again to go off thru the forest in ill fitting shoes & left without even saying high to the young ladies following me thru the forest.

I did get some nice photo’s but that was the days of negatives and I can’t put my fingers on them right now. I will post a photo of what I think scared the moose instead, taken years later.

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Shoot fast & live long
Warren

The moral of the story is: You should have been talking pictures of the ladies.

This thread has the makings of a all time great. Bears, Moose. +P 45 and Women!!

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Still Running Against the Wind

No, it's still a 45 Colt.

I have a load with some Surplus Unique, 9.2gr, with a 454640 255gr HP boolit it that I cast here at home, that develops 1050fps out of a 5 1/2" Ruger Blackhawk 45 convertible.

Accurate enough to put them all in a pocket notebook size piece of paper @ 25 yards.

Check out the pictures in the "What did you load today" thread.

They are super cool looking and very accurate!

Smith & Wesson's site doesn't say. Is the Govenor's barrel rifled?

The barrel is rifled. If it weren't, the gun would be classified as Any Other Weapon under the National Firearms Act and would be subject to Federal registration, a $5 tax, and lots of paperwork for transfer.

It would be a better shotgun with a smooth bore, but the accuracy with bullets would be much worse.

I wonder if anyone has legally made one of these (or a Judge) into a smooth bore. I know that S&W made some smooth bore revolvers in the pre-1934 era - has anyone here ever owned or shot one?

Hi, I just wanted to say thanks for this. I was looking for some load data on .45 Colt for the Governor, and I think I'm going to shoot for 850fps with a 250gr bullet after reading this. I'll post up the load when I'm done. Thank you for taking the time to throw this up.

Any new info?

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Dyin ain't much of a livin

I'm the guy whose governor we ran these loads through. All but the 8.8 were very managable. The 8.8 load felt recoil was bareable for me, but you knew it was hot. I also shot those loads with the factory grips, which are a bit small. I bet with some larger grips I could handle the gun better with those loads. I am currently able to hit bowling pins DA at 15/18 yards with the 8.5 Unique w/240 SWC load, and they seem to fly off the table! So I think that load is probably coming out of my gun at around 775, considering the load data differences presented by roadgunner. I havn't tried from any farther away. I will and let you know.

On a side note, I like my Gov. Fun gun. In fact, I just bought a 410 shotgun to use as a compliment". Lol.

LOL, another year old thread brought back as a Zombie...

Any hot load you put through the Governor is going to feel hot but not deliver the velocity you would get from even a 4" S&W or Ruger. First, the barrel has a slightly larger diameter than it should for 45 Colt bullets because it's really designed for the 410 shotshells. Secondly, it's only a 2.5" barrel and that will add to the loss of velocity. Next you are shooting a 260gr bullet instead of a 250gr bullet and even though it's only 10gr more you will still add to the loss of velocity there too.

IMO 850 fps from a 2.5" Gov is a very hot load and you shouldn't push any further.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Any chrono results from Fed 410 buckshot? I believe it is 4 36cal round balls at approx 70 grains per????

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Tommy

At least it was the owner of the gun from the OP's opener that brought the thread back to life. I tried to find a side by side of the Judge and the Gov's cylinders because I know the Judge's cylinder walls look paper thin at the outer edges. I'm just curious how much meat is in the Gov's cylinder walls trying to contain these loads and on top of that they have the stop notch cuts to deal with.

I was not able to duplicate this. What primer did you use? I only achieved 699 FPS with 8.8 grains of Unique. Two out of ten hit the 730s.

Mike

I chrono'd three shots of 2.5" 000 four-pellet buck. They were as follows:

813 FPS
797 FPS
779 FPS

The pellets weigh 61.0 grains each (244.0 grains total). I determined this by dissecting a round and weighing the buckshot.

Mike

The primers were Federal

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Shoot fast & live long
Warren

Standard (not magnum)?

My velocities were way off of yours. I am wondering if I got some bad powder or something.

How about your crimp? I used a Lee FCD set to a medium crimp (contact plus 3/4 turn).

Mike

What bullet were you using?

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Shoot fast & live long
Warren

I used a slightly lighter bullet than you did. I was using Berry's 250 GR FP bullets. I thought I might match or exceed your velocity with a 10 grain lighter bullet.

I would be quite happy to come up with a load that hits 850 FPS. So far I have tried Bullseye, Unique, and CFE Pistol. I have not been able to get past about 715 FPS average with any of them.

Mike

45 colt, 250 grain lead bullet. 9.0 unique = 900 fps out of my 5?" model 25. Maybe its a 6".

Accurate as can be.

David

The Governor's short barrel makes it a challenge to reload for. 9.0 grains of Unique only pushed a 250 GR FP Berry's plated bullet to 715 FPS average in the Governor. For this load, I used a new Starline case, a CCI 300 primer, an OAL of 1.595", and a medium crimp using a Lee FCD.

With the velocity another forum member was able to get with 8.8 grains of Unique and a 260 grain lead bullet, I am wondering what is wrong with my can of powder. I have had it a few years, but just recently broke the seal on and started using it.

I was also having an issue with extreme spread using Unique and CFE Pistol. My hottest load, which was 9.0 grains of Unique, settled down to a 49 FPS spread, which is acceptable. I tried 9.2 grains of CFE Pistol and only achieved 629 FPS average with a 122 FPS spread. I think Unique and CFE Pistol like to work best when the case is closer to capacity. I am not convinced that these slower burning powders are suitable for use in short barreled revolvers. These loads were all pushing the Berry's 250 GR FP.

Mike

That Is likely your reloading setup or technique. Gun to gun variations can be quite large, so taking info from one shooter & trying to match it in your gun is pointless. The load will be what it is in your gun, no way around that. If you want higher vel with lower pressures, go to a slower powder like Longshot or BlueDot, even 2400. Even in the shorter bbl, you'll always get higher vel with slower powders, even ins short bbl, but pay for that in greater muzzle blast. A 250gr lead bullet @ 800fps should be easy to achieve unless your gun is really sloppy, oversize chamber & large cyl gap. Plated will be slower, more friction & not as good a seal in the bbl.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Below is a link to the data I have compiled on 45 Colt loads for the Governor.

45 COLT loads for S&W Governor

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

This all seems like going to a ton of trouble to fail to duplicate good old hard ball .45 acp out of a 1911.

The Governor is a novelty item in my humble opinion and not to be taken seriously as a defensive firearm.

Just my opinion, of course.

I respect your opinion but would you wish to be down range of Federal 000 buck or a Lehigh Maximum Expansion round at room distance...I didn't think so. With the right ammunition the Governor is not novelty, it is a serious SDF revolver.

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"The Dude abides"

I, like most folks, don't want to get shot by anything.

That's a whole different issue than whether an underpowered revolver is an adequate choice for sd against four and two footed critters.

Think about it: 3 .36 caliber 70 grain projectiles ( 000 buckshot) at 600 fps isn't much. Compare that with the same 000 buckshot (8 pellets) out of a shotgun (1,200 - 1,400 fps).

This thread shows how difficult it is to get a Governor up to adequate power for sd.

Groo here
What does a higher end 410 slug clock? how accurate at close range?

While I don't own one yet I did some reading when I first starting looking into buying one and this article says with federal 000 buck revolver rounds out of the governer 2.5" barrel you get four .73gr pellets travelling at 850 fps with about 468 ft-lbs.

I would call that far from being under powered. At typical sd ranges if you need to pull the trigger more than once you'll be turning whatever your shooting into swiss cheese.

Gun Review: S&W Governor (Take Three) - The Truth About Guns

They read that velocity from the box, not a chronograph.

Watch from 6:14 into this terminal ballistics video. Nof said.

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"The Dude abides"