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  #1  
Old 03-22-2012, 09:57 PM
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Gents - I need some advice. I've been reloading for over 30 years, have an Oehler chrono, and am a mechanical engineer (I over-geekify everything I do, including shooting & reloading.)

Have just started using 3N37 in my 147 gr. 9mm loads. Outstanding performance and no flash. Getting about 950 FPS in a Kahr PM-9, about 1000 in a 3913TSW, and about 1050 in an M&P 9c. Was at the range last evening to sight in a laser and shot some of these loads - no discernable flash. Tried my old Power Pistol loads and got a football sized fireball. 3N38 works well, but is too heavily compressed.

So - I'm thinking these powder work so great in a 9, let's try them in a .38 Spl FBI load, and 230 gr 45's. Velocities were way low and lots of tan kernels left in the brass for both calibers. Vihtavouri must have used a political speech writer to get their book velocities.

Studied Hoptob's thread on the FBI load (great job, BTW) and found it very informative. I have tried two of the powders he listed in the chart above the primer pics. Years ago, I started using SR4756 with data from Speer #8. I quit using it because it was squirrely. Would go from mild to wild with no warning. HS-6 gave good results using magnum primers, but had erratic velocity spreads - some good, some way over 100.

Have never used Longshot. Have been using Power Pistol in all my 38's with the 158 LSWCHP. Performance is good, but hate the muzzle flash.

I also use PP in my 45 loads with good success.

Everyone who writes about VV powder seems to love it, despite the cost. You get what you pay for. N340 works well for Mike in his FBI loads. It seems to be only about 10% over listed max. - well below the other powders listed in his chart.

So, here is my question. Anybody use N340 for 230 gr. 45 ACP loads? How does it work? Since the powder is relatively expensive, it would be nice to use it for two calibers. Looking at VV's burning rate chart, N340 appears to have about the same rate as SR4756, Longshot, PP, and Silhouette. Seems to me that it should perform about the same.

On another note, I will be trying the 3N38 for 230 gr. 45 Super loads in the near future. 2400 is a tad too slow - but works great with the 255 SWC's. Got the 255's to an honest 1100 out of a 4506 Ace conversion. Recoil was stout (thank God for Hogues) but there were no pressure signs. Skip, here is a thought - instead of a 625 with heavy loads, use a 45 Super Ace conversion. 9 rounds of bear bumper / hog healer instead of 6 with the abilty to do a combat reload. Just a thought, bro.

Thanks for your insights. S/F,

RAS
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:43 PM
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I've been tempted to load some VV powder, can't offer any input, but I will follow this thread. You mention HS-6 and erratic velocity spreads. I load 9mm 124gr Speer Gold Dot with HS-6 (6.7 gr) and standard CCI sm pistol. Shot a bunch last week, velocity was 1150 and spread was less than 25 from a 5906. I've never felt the need to use magnum primers, but several posts here have indicated its a good idea. Longshot seems to bother a lot of loaders, I considered trying it but have been quite happy with Titegroup for 38 Spl.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:00 PM
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I use some VV powders in rifle loads, but it's nearly twice as expensive as US made powders & not twice as good. I would give WSF a try for 38sp+P loads & std to +P loads in the 45acp. Less blast & flash then PP or Longshot. Think of it as better metering Unique.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:04 PM
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I recently bought a lb of vv n340 to try for a Unique alternative, I plan to test it for heavy 38spl, 44spl and 45acp. I will also try this powder for cast bullets for .357 mag in the 158-178gr range.
The last powder I tried for this was AA#5, and two thumbs up for this powder it worked very well for upper end loaded 38spl, 44spl, 45acp and 9x18 Makarov. AA powders are good to the last drop, I mean they meter very well.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:02 AM
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rasmith,

I am not an expert, and have experience with only one Vihtavuori powder, so I'll just share with you my own experience.

The powder I use does not work real well if the charge is reduced very much. When I was testing my load, any charge over 4% or so lower than the maximum listed in the manual would produce the symptoms you mentioned -unburnt granules and significantly reduced pressures/velocities -and that was with a magnum primer.

Obviously I don't know if that would hold true for their powders across the board.

Andy
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:33 PM
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I USE VV330 IN THE 9MM.
5.0GR FOR 115 GR
4.8 FOR THE 124GR
4.2 FOR THE 147

I HAVE USED 3N37 FOR THE 125GR JHP IN 38SPL. VERY NICE

IN .45 ACP WITH THE 185JHP I USE VV310 4.3 GR. VERY ACCURATE

IN .45ACP 230 GR I HAVE FOUND WSF 6.2 GR TO BE THE MOST ACCURATE AT 50YDS. THIS LOAD DUPLICATES THE MILITARY MATCH AMMO FROM THE 60-70'S. 855FPS. MG BULLETS ARE GOOD , ZERO ARE BETTER AND THE SIERRA 8815'S ARE THE TOPS( BUT VERY EXPENSIVE). JIM P
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:38 AM
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I loved Vv N340 with 124/125gr bullets in 9mm
didnt use it in any other caliber. loved that it has no to very small flash.

Longshot in 9mm disappoints if your looking for velocity powerpistol can do better
I hear AA #9 or maybe its AA #7 can push 147gr bullets over 1100fps in 9mm but never got to test it out.

for pushing 9mm to major powerfactor check brianenos forums they have spreedsheet of recipes do note the c.o.a.l. though.

Last edited by MrApathy; 03-28-2012 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:18 AM
David Sinko David Sinko is offline
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I have used VV powder but don't rely on it now because it's too expensive. Despite the flash, I find that Power Pistol is perfect for high velocity heavy bullet .45 ACP and 9mm revolver loads. I am beating the velocity you are getting with your Kahr by over 100 FPS, and that's in a 2" barrel with a cylinder gap.

I have found that it works well in some .38 Special loads too.

Dave Sinko
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:51 PM
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I use N110 for my 357 mag. 14.0 gr with 158 gr hornady xtp is a very accurate load.
Just this last week I have been working on a 38spl load with 3N37 and sr4756. I don't get the velocities listed in the load data so I have had to work up to an acceptable velocity load and have found 7.1 gr of VV3N37 with a 125gr hornady xtp to be a nice and accurate load around 900fps out of my 627. 4756 gives a tighter group, but the velocities are lower with 6.2 gr and a 125grxtp chronograghing at an average of 750 fps.
Still a lot of work to do, tough job, but somebody has to do it
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnhs View Post
I use N110 for my 357 mag. 14.0 gr with 158 gr hornady xtp is a very accurate load.
Just this last week I have been working on a 38spl load with 3N37 and sr4756. I don't get the velocities listed in the load data so I have had to work up to an acceptable velocity load and have found 7.1 gr of VV3N37 with a 125gr hornady xtp to be a nice and accurate load around 900fps out of my 627. 4756 gives a tighter group, but the velocities are lower with 6.2 gr and a 125grxtp chronograghing at an average of 750 fps.
Still a lot of work to do, tough job, but somebody has to do it
Every can of 4756 I've bought seems to burn different, and I've had to re-work up my loads.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH45 View Post
Every can of 4756 I've bought seems to burn different, and I've had to re-work up my loads.
It does seem a bit more tempermental than the VV.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:24 PM
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I've been loading VVN320/N330/N340 for yrs. for my competition pistols. Current .40 s&w loads 180 gr. zero JHP 5.4 grs. N340 1.195 OAL gets me about 940 FPS 5 inch barrel. I have loaded .45 230 gr zero JHP 5.2 gr N320 1.250 OAL but I don't have velocity info in front of me. N320 is alittle snappier than N340. My favorite is N330, soft recoil with a little snap, but N330 is tough to find. Only reason I'm shooting N340 is I came across a great deal on 16 lbs. so I bought, now I have to use it.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jibjab View Post
I recently bought a lb of vv n340 to try for a Unique alternative, I plan to test it for heavy 38spl, 44spl and 45acp. I will also try this powder for cast bullets for .357 mag in the 158-178gr range.
The last powder I tried for this was AA#5, and two thumbs up for this powder it worked very well for upper end loaded 38spl, 44spl, 45acp and 9x18 Makarov. AA powders are good to the last drop, I mean they meter very well.
I've also obtained very good results from the Accurate line of powders. They all seem to have less flash as compared to equivalent pistol powders from other manufacturers. #2 is excellent for smaller calibers that need fast burning powder, similar to Bullseye but much less flash and crud.
#5 would be the ticket for the .38 +p loads.
For your .45 super loads, look into #7 or #9.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:07 PM
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Am using 3n37 for jhp 125 grain 38 special, N-350 for 230 grain 45 acp, N-110 (standard primers) for 357 mag.

For 9mm jhp's, still prefering AA-7 with mag primer.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:14 PM
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I used N320 in 45 ACP with 230 ball, and 40 SW with 180 FMJ with great results when I was shooting IPSC. I really like N133 in 223/556 with 50/55 grain V-Max. I got some of the highest velocity and tightest groups I ever shot in my Savage bolt gun with that combo.

Expensive yes, but very clean, great velocity and low SD in my experience.
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrApathy View Post
I loved Vv N340 with 124/125gr bullets in 9mm
didnt use it in any other caliber. loved that it has no to very small flash.

Longshot in 9mm disappoints if your looking for velocity powerpistol can do better
I hear AA #9 or maybe its AA #7 can push 147gr bullets over 1100fps in 9mm but never got to test it out.

for pushing 9mm to major powerfactor check brianenos forums they have spreedsheet of recipes do note the c.o.a.l. though.
I use Vhita 3N38 for my 147gr XTP for >1200fps. This is Vhita data and suppose to be Saami load (not+P).
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:02 PM
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Default Thanks for the input.

Fellas,

Thanks for all of your input. I have done more reserarch and it appears that 3N37 runs best at the upper end of the range. I have a bunch of stuff loaded up, waiting for suitable weather for a trip to the range.


WXL, do you find your 3N38 loads to be heavily compressed? With mine, I had to seat the bullet so hard that the seater left an imprint on the bullet nose. That is why I moved down to 3N37.

S/F,

RAS
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:55 AM
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I tried 6.9 & 7.1gr of N-350 with the 230 gr bullet and was getting around 900~ 940 fps which was in line with the book velocities. My SD was 28 and my ES was 78. Not very impressive and neither were the groups, so I went to another powder.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmith3442 View Post
Fellas,

Thanks for all of your input. I have done more reserarch and it appears that 3N37 runs best at the upper end of the range. I have a bunch of stuff loaded up, waiting for suitable weather for a trip to the range.


WXL, do you find your 3N38 loads to be heavily compressed? With mine, I had to seat the bullet so hard that the seater left an imprint on the bullet nose. That is why I moved down to 3N37.

S/F,

RAS
RAS,
Did not notice any significant compression but I will pay extra attention on next batch. I am loading .2 to .3 grains below max. Data was based on 4" barrel and I load mine for a 5"1911 so probably still >1200 fps.
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmith3442 View Post
Gents - I need some advice. I've been reloading for over 30 years, have an Oehler chrono, and am a mechanical engineer (I over-geekify everything I do, including shooting & reloading.)

Have just started using 3N37 in my 147 gr. 9mm loads. Outstanding performance and no flash. Getting about 950 FPS in a Kahr PM-9, about 1000 in a 3913TSW, and about 1050 in an M&P 9c. Was at the range last evening to sight in a laser and shot some of these loads - no discernable flash. Tried my old Power Pistol loads and got a football sized fireball. 3N38 works well, but is too heavily compressed.

So - I'm thinking these powder work so great in a 9, let's try them in a .38 Spl FBI load, and 230 gr 45's. Velocities were way low and lots of tan kernels left in the brass for both calibers. Vihtavouri must have used a political speech writer to get their book velocities.

Studied Hoptob's thread on the FBI load (great job, BTW) and found it very informative. I have tried two of the powders he listed in the chart above the primer pics. Years ago, I started using SR4756 with data from Speer #8. I quit using it because it was squirrely. Would go from mild to wild with no warning. HS-6 gave good results using magnum primers, but had erratic velocity spreads - some good, some way over 100.

Have never used Longshot. Have been using Power Pistol in all my 38's with the 158 LSWCHP. Performance is good, but hate the muzzle flash.

I also use PP in my 45 loads with good success.

Everyone who writes about VV powder seems to love it, despite the cost. You get what you pay for. N340 works well for Mike in his FBI loads. It seems to be only about 10% over listed max. - well below the other powders listed in his chart.

So, here is my question. Anybody use N340 for 230 gr. 45 ACP loads? How does it work? Since the powder is relatively expensive, it would be nice to use it for two calibers. Looking at VV's burning rate chart, N340 appears to have about the same rate as SR4756, Longshot, PP, and Silhouette. Seems to me that it should perform about the same.

On another note, I will be trying the 3N38 for 230 gr. 45 Super loads in the near future. 2400 is a tad too slow - but works great with the 255 SWC's. Got the 255's to an honest 1100 out of a 4506 Ace conversion. Recoil was stout (thank God for Hogues) but there were no pressure signs. Skip, here is a thought - instead of a 625 with heavy loads, use a 45 Super Ace conversion. 9 rounds of bear bumper / hog healer instead of 6 with the abilty to do a combat reload. Just a thought, bro.

Thanks for your insights. S/F,

RAS
You never mentioned what BULLETS you are using. Revisit 3N38 with Hornady 147gr XTPs. Those bullets are a boat tail design. You have LESS barrel surface contact area so you can get higher velocities with out going over pressure. I'm getting an average of 1088 from a Walther PPS with 3.2" barrel. My HK P30 runs 1150. YMMV
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:15 PM
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Like 125JHP, I've run N-350 with 230 grain bullets - I chronographed the Remington 230 grain brass golden sabers and 7.5 grains got me 915fps from a 5" barrel while 8.0 grains turned 983fps. Groups were around 3" at 25 yards with 7.5 and just a tad larger at 983fps.

Now with the Super you can run the N-350 with 265 grain cast bullets and with 8.0 grains you can turn 1,004fps and 8.5 grains will fly at 1,061fps. This from a 5" barrel. The case will hold 9.0 grains with minimal compression, if any at all, with the Beartooth 265 grain cast gas checked bullet with an OAL of 1.245.

My particular pistol is well set-up and will consistently shoot under an inch at 25 yards with the 185 grain Nosler or XTP using 4.1 grains of N-310, so I can accept the 3" groups hot-rodding the 230 grain. I went with a heavier recoil spring in the 1911 with the super loads using super brass just to see what I could do and it wasn't pretty - you can keep everything on a 10" pie plate with plenty to spare but that's about all I can say for its accuracy at 25 yards. I think there's a need for a faster twist barrel there.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:25 PM
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Have not been able to beat the accuracy of Hdy 230 xtp for 230 jhp bullets in 45 acp, and tried most the commonly available ones available 5-10 years ago. V V N-350 does not burn well at lower pressures, and V V's manuals have reduced their published loads in 45 acp over the years.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:28 PM
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I've thought about trying this unusual and expensive powder just for kicks but when I can get groups like this with the 44 Magnum and 10.5 gr of HS-6 with a 260 gr LRNFP, it seems ludicrous to try. I don't use magnum primers-just standard seem to fit the bill. HS-6 for me is great in the 45 ACP as well.



Last edited by ColColt; 05-07-2012 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 07-04-2015, 10:23 AM
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In my opinion, 3N38 exists for one reason, the .38 Super Lapua. This powder probably would work well as a plan 'B' or softer shooter in other calibers such as 9mm para, 10mm, (long case, non-magnum).
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Old 07-04-2015, 10:31 AM
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VV 320 4.9-5.2 230ball 45acp
Clean shooting powder
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Old 07-05-2015, 10:18 AM
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Fan of VVn320 here. Really like it in 9mm. If you examine the inside of the fired brass, it is amazing how clean it looks. Bill wilson list VVn320 as one of the match loads for accuracy testing for his pistol in .45
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