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Old 03-27-2012, 03:02 AM
bflobill69 bflobill69 is offline
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Default Crimping LRN 9mm bullets...

I recently picked up 9mm dies for my Dillon RL550B. Had no problems loading Winchester 115gr FMJ bullets.

Love this new press, its an absolute dream to use.

I did however have real difficulty getting these 115gr LRN bullets to crimp and seat properly. When checking in gauge they were WAY OUT, and no matter how tight I crimped em they would still move in case.

It seemed that I was eventually crimping them so much they might have had excessive breach pressure (had they even been able to be chambered, which they were not).

I noticed that the FMJ bullets I have been loading are .355 diameter, while these LRN are .356...

I mainly load ammo for revolver(.38/.357 and .45LC), so loading semi-auto cartridges is relatively new to me.

Anyone else had difficulty with LRN bullets in 9mm?

Bflobill69
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:09 AM
lebomm lebomm is offline
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Are you roll or taper crimping? I loaded a lot of LRN (w/taper crimp) for a TZ-75 a few yrs back, and had no troubles.

Larry
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:30 AM
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These 115gr LRN bullets have a single cannelure.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:33 AM
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I loaded 9mm with lead many moons ago.
It was somewhat fiddly with the larger diameter, IIRC.
Switched to Berrys plated bullets and never looked back.
+1 on taper crimping, too.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:01 AM
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You don't set bullet resistance with crimp, neck/case tension decides that.
A taper crimp just needs to remove the bell you put in with your expander die and a slight amount more so it will feed reliably, depending on the firearm. As you found, no amount of extra crimping will make the bullet tighter in the case.

Since lead is normally larger diameter than a fmj and they aren't making it through your gauge, I'd say you need to shorten them up until they make it through.
Since you are going to be shorter, working up from a minimum load is a given.
Which leads to:
Seating depth(Amount of projectile contacting surface inside the case.) might have something to do with the problem of them moving easily. Being lead is likely to be denser than the fmj and if you are seating to the same O.A.L. there will be less bullet inside the case. Shorter O.A.L. will probably solve that issue also.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:31 AM
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Default crimping and swedging-- samething

I just found the same problem. For accuracy you need -.356,
.357, .358 depending on your barrel. Pull a couple of your bullets and see what they now measure. Over crimping may have you down to .352. All you will get is a leaded up barrel.
My new dies seem to be roll crimp, and the lead will spin in the case but will not push or pull. Seemed to shoot ok. be sure to use your barrel as a test gauge when checking . When I got to the range my test gun shot nice. My others seem to have tighter chambers. Not all the same. Damn Smith's, couldn't make'm all the same.
Mike.
Ps. you can swedge copper jacketed down also by over crimping.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:35 AM
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All ammo that is reloaded for a semi auto handgun has to be taper crimped because the bullet head spaces on the case mouth. If you have a cannelure you shouldn't crimp on it. One way to see if you have enough crimp is to take the barrel out of the gun and insert a loaded round into the barrel. Push as hard as you can with your thumb and turn the barrel upside down. If it falls out freely you have the right crimp. If it sticks you have to much crimp. If you have to much crimp the bullet can go to far into the barrel and you will have light strikes on the primer or no primer contact at all. Also if you don't have enough crimp the shell may not drop into the barrel freely. There is a fine line on getting the right taper crimp. As for the lead bullet being one thousandth bigger than a FMJ bullet that is normal. I have loaded many thousands of lead bullets for semi auto pistols over the years so don't go buy the more expensive FMJ bullets. Don
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bflobill69 View Post
These 115gr LRN bullets have a single cannelure.

OK, I give up? Why does a 115 gr, 9mm bullet have a cannelure??

What brand of bullet is it.?
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:53 AM
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I am envisioning a lube groove and a crimp groove but a cannelure?
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:07 AM
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When I started reloading for 9mm, I found that setting the belling (expander) was very critical. It look a lot of trial and error to get it just right. Once I got it right, it was easy going.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
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When I started reloading for 9mm, I found that setting the belling (expander) was very critical. It look a lot of trial and error to get it just right. Once I got it right, it was easy going.
I don't understand why belling is so critical. I try not to over do it because if you do it to much it will wear the brass out. Normally I bell the case so I can set the bullet in there with no problem. It's setting the taper crimp that I find is critical. Don
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:24 PM
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Are you using a Lee FCD? If so you are probably sizing down the bullet.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:42 PM
bflobill69 bflobill69 is offline
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Will seating these LRN bullets deeper than the FMJ 115gr bullets cause failures to feed? It would seem seating them deeper would solve my current problem, but also will increase breach pressure ALOT.

I am not a BIG semi-auto shooter so please forgive my lack of knowledge here. And TY again for all the responses!

Perhaps I should STICK to factory ammo =/ Bah what fun would that be?

Here are the bullets to which I am referring. Its a crimp groove, not a cannelure.

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Old 03-27-2012, 11:56 PM
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That looks more like the lube groove to me. Your case OAL should be the determining factor during seating. Crimping shouldn't change case OAL.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:06 AM
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Yep, sure does look like were the alox goes.
Mike.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:42 AM
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Not a crimp groove. It is a grease/lube groove. Since those are bear creek black bullets(pre-lubed moly coated) pretend they aren't there.

Make a dummy round with no powder, start at your beginning O.A.L. saami max length is 1.169 for 9mm. Keep moving in a little at a time until your round fits your barrel and passes the plunk test.
Check with your case gauge to see if there is a headspace issue then. It is not likely a headspace issue, the bullet is(was) likely hitting the rifling in the barrel. When it slips in and out of your barrel with no help you will know the O.A.L. your gun likes, as long as they fit in and feed from your mags you are good to start up a load(Remember the light taper crimp.).
Published lengths and all that looks good in the book, but if it doesn't work in your barrel it is worthless.
I always ignore that part and figure out what my guns like.

As always, one starts at the minimum loads and works up.
Be safe, have fun.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bflobill69 View Post

Here are the bullets to which I am referring. Its a crimp groove, not a cannelure.
It's not a crimp groove, its a lube groove

See GT1 reply.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWKEYE10 View Post
I don't understand why belling is so critical. I try not to over do it because if you do it to much it will wear the brass out. Normally I bell the case so I can set the bullet in there with no problem. It's setting the taper crimp that I find is critical. Don
Setting the crimp has never been a problem for me. I used the case mouth measurement that I found on factory ammo. Belling the factory new Starline brass, I found that if the belling adjustment wasn't done so that there was just the slightest bell that the fmj bullet would drop down into the brass and of course if there wasn't enough belling the case would be crushed. I never had this happen with .45 ACP brass.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:19 AM
bflobill69 bflobill69 is offline
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After quite a bit of fine tuning (seemed like 3-4x what it takes me to set up for revolver loads), I think I got it. Basically OAL for these LRN's have to be ALOT shorter than on the FMJ's. Thankyou all for your suggestions!
OAL for my FMJ loads are app: 1.156
OAL for these LRN loads were app: 1.109 - considerably shorter... So off to the range tomorrow over lunch to see how they perform.


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Old 03-29-2012, 06:30 AM
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Looks good.

That rounded profile was what was catching you up. They don't have the classic parabellum profile that can go a lot longer before touching the rifling.

Let us know how they shoot.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:56 AM
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You never mentioned what gun you are shooting them out of?

Barrels on CZ and Browning HP have very short leades (chambers) I need to seat the lead bullets much shorter, as GT1 mentioned.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:51 PM
bflobill69 bflobill69 is offline
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My only 9mm is a lightly used old LEO S&W 5903. I am thinking of buying a single stack S&W 9mm (if I can find one reasonably) or possibly a Browning Hi Power.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:43 PM
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That's a Nice gun and great picture! It should digest anything.

The BHP as I mentioned has a short leade and the bullets need to be seated deeper. I use the Missouri Bullets 115 and 124 LRN.
Regular FMJ or Plated will feed fine at longer OAL.
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:29 PM
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Default Range results...

Sorry I didn't shoot any pictures of groupings, etc. This was more to make sure the rounds were cycling. They seemed fine.
Light target load: Win 9mm brass, CCI small pistol primers, 3.6gr Bullseye (dirty stuff), Bear Creek 115gr LRN (.356), OAL 1.109, app 970 fps
Left work early and was pleasantly suprised to get close to these crafty buggers... sadly they are not fair game till September in these parts
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:43 AM
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Try some slower powder for you 9mm. Bullseye is only "dirty" at the low ends of loading data.

I have switched from HP 38 to Power Pistol and Win Auto Comp for 9mm and 40 SW.
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:07 PM
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Handloading/Reloading the cast bullets for 9mm is gonna be a huge cost savings. I find all the full jacketed bullets for 9mm are easily double the price of cast lead if not more. Perhaps its time to think about casting my own...

Thankyou all again for the advice and support, you guys are an AMAZING resource and I very much appreciate it.

Bflobill69
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Old 12-21-2019, 05:44 PM
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Hi bflobill69, I just joined this forum and know this is an old thread but wanted to share my experience. When I first started loading with my Lee Loadmaster I had several issues I had to learn how to overcome. I also experienced what you describe. What I found was that I had the seating plug set deeper than the crimp. I actually somehow set the seating depth first and then the crimp depth. What happened was I was crimping and then shoving the bullet deeper causing it to be loose. Also, what I found is different bullets (IE round nose, truncated cone) have different diameters above the case line. For my Taurus G2C I could not get the full bodied Lee 2 ogive round nose to work at all. I did come up with a workable load using the truncated cone at 1.060" COAL. I also was able to use the Lee TL356-124-2R bullet which has a smaller diameter nose than the body. It's been a few years since your post but I would be interested in what you found out.
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356, 5903, browning, bullseye, crimp, primer, smith & wesson, smith and wesson, starline, winchester

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