9mm Federal brass headaches

[lmcgust]

For those reloading 9 mm brass, this may interest you.
Lately, I have seen Federal 9mm NT brass on the ranges I usually go to. Some of this brass is crimped and some is not. For us reloaders, this is bad news as it means more head-stamp inspection . I have a feeling this may be used by provincial law enforcement in our area. On the picture below, you can clearly see the crimp on the two cases on the left, while the case on the right shows what happens when you try to seat a primer. Very frustrating. Inspecting the .45 ACP cases for small primers (Win NT) was bad enough, now it seems we may have to do the same for 9mm FC NT cases. Have you guys seen these cases in your area? I'm new to attachment on this forum... I provide a link to the pic and also attempted to attach the pic directly.
BR,
Guy -

[MP22]

That is strange....never had that problem.

[john16443]

Same goes for Win NT brass in 9mm. Anything NT gets tossed as part of my headstamp sorting in 9mm and 45ACP. I will keep FC, Blazer, and Speer brass in the same group, PMC in another and Winchester in a third. All WCC related brass gets tossed as well as it is usually of unknown origin.

Oh, and Federal (Champion, Blazer Brass, Speer) is probably the biggest and worst offender as far as small primed 45ACP is concerned. No issue for me, it gets segregated by headstamp just like everything else. Loads the same, and usually it's guaranteed once fired.

[lmcgust]

I was just surprised to see a crimp on 9mm brass, never seen it before in all my pickings. I was going by my experience with WinNT in 45 ACP, which uses a SPP but at least gives us a break by not using a crimp. I get the feeling sometimes these companies don't want us to reload as much as in the past.
BR,
Guy -

[Hawker Man]

Same thing with Federal NT in 40 S&W

[125JHP]

WCC with a nato cross is often (always?) crimped while commercial WCC with a date usually isn't.

[Maximumbob54]

I'm finding more and more brass that has crimped primer pockets. I'm just going to break down and buy a primer pocket swage die from RCBS. I already have a small cheap single stage left up with a universal depriming die. I may swap out that die with the swage die so while I'm reloading I can just reach over and fix the pocket and keep rolling. It is upsetting only in that I'm breaking more pins than usual with the excess force to punch out some of the crimped in primers.

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by Maximumbob54

I'm finding more and more brass that has crimped primer pockets. I'm just going to break down and buy a primer pocket swage die from RCBS. I already have a small cheap single stage left up with a universal depriming die. I may swap out that die with the swage die so while I'm reloading I can just reach over and fix the pocket and keep rolling. It is upsetting only in that I'm breaking more pins than usual with the excess force to punch out some of the crimped in primers.

I've been looking for an excuse to buy a single stage press and you may have just taken me over the top.
This past weekend I had to run a bunch of 38's through my progressive in the crimping station a second time to correct a slippage problem and was thinking how nice it would be to have a single stage for such work.

Oh Boy - More Gear!!!

Thanks, Bob!

[M29since14]

Originally Posted by Maximumbob54

I'm finding more and more brass that has crimped primer pockets. I'm just going to break down and buy a primer pocket swage die from RCBS...

Might want to consider the Dillon swager. I have the RCBS swage die and have used it off and on for years, but I don't really care much for the way it works and think of it as a light-duty set-up. If you are going to do a lot of swaging, the Dillon looks like a much better alternative, but more expensive. "You get what you pay for."

To the OP's topic, have not seen the crimped primer pockets around here on 9x19, but NT loads are not much interest to anyone except LE, so I don't see a lot of NT brass lying around, especially in 9mm. It is more common in .45 in my area, for some reason.

[CAJUNLAWYER]

And THAT my friends is why the original cajuns migrated down from Canada

[PPCSHOOTER]

A DILLON 1050 ELIMINATES THE WORRY OF THOSE CASES. JP

[Maximumbob54]

Originally Posted by M29since14

Might want to consider the Dillon swager. I have the RCBS swage die and have used it off and on for years, but I don't really care much for the way it works and think of it as a light-duty set-up. If you are going to do a lot of swaging, the Dillon looks like a much better alternative, but more expensive. "You get what you pay for."

To the OP's topic, have not seen the crimped primer pockets around here on 9x19, but NT loads are not much interest to anyone except LE, so I don't see a lot of NT brass lying around, especially in 9mm. It is more common in .45 in my area, for some reason.

I've read the Dillon Super Swage 600 relies heavily on the case web thickness. Get one just out of spec and it doesn't work. But then I've read the RCBS version can ruin case rims. I think we are due for a new primer pocket swage tool soon as this crimped primer pocket issue is on the rise.

[dsb1829]

Yep, I was getting 4-5/100 crimped 9mm last night. Total pain in the but. I am definitely going to sort a bit better.

[lmcgust]

... but these crimps in Luger cases...are they necessary due to NT primers wanting to "get out" of the pocket during the explosion? Is this the technical reason for having them? After all, the cases in the picture I posted are surely commercial, right?
BR,
Guy-

[mikld]

I really can't see why some reloaders don't want to inspect their brass. All ya gotta do is LOOK at the case. I inspect all my brass before I reload it. I find small primers (45 ACP), and I find crimped primers, and defects (splits, dents, etc.). Therefore, all the brass I reload is in good working condition, and I don't wind up cussing a manufacturer for his product!....

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by mikld

I really can't see why some reloaders don't want to inspect their brass. All ya gotta do is LOOK at the case. I inspect all my brass before I reload it. I find small primers (45 ACP), and I find crimped primers, and defects (splits, dents, etc.). Therefore, all the brass I reload is in good working condition, and I don't wind up cussing a manufacturer for his product!....

I do inspect my brass and set aside the small primer 45, the crimped pocket or Berdan primered 9mm etc. No amount of inspection will show an undersized pocket, especially if the spent primer is still in it.

Not cussing - just dis-cussing the properties of various brands of primers as well as what gear to purchase in order to make previously unusable brass suitable to load.

[125JHP]

When you batch handle a case 12 times from start to finish, it becomes that much more time consuming to look for anomalies not usually encountered. I don't look inside every case to cull berdan primers, I rely on when I'm sorting by head-stamps to look if I happen to see an unfamiliar brand. I try to look for certain problems when the cases are being handles in certain ways, in trays all oriented the same way.
Tonight I found 2 nickle Win cases with crimped primers - out of 50. Where did they come from? Why do all the others that look exactly the same not have crimps? dunno but they're fixed now.

[mikld]

Originally Posted by blujax01

I do inspect my brass and set aside the small primer 45, the crimped pocket or Berdan primered 9mm etc. No amount of inspection will show an undersized pocket, especially if the spent primer is still in it.

Not cussing - just dis-cussing the properties of various brands of primers as well as what gear to purchase in order to make previously unusable brass suitable to load.

I thought the OP was talking about crimped primers. Easy to spot. Yes undersized primer pockets are difficult to visually determine, but deprimed brass with crimped primer pockets are easy to see. just gotta look. If visually inspecting is too much work/time consuming, don't do it. But expect problems during reloading...

[lmcgust]

Mikld,
I was just highlighting that primer crimps in 9mm commercial ammo (not military) is something new to me. When you don't expect it, you don't check for it, if you know what I mean. Now, why would Federal start putting a crimp on 9mm commercial ammo? This must be an extra cost to them, but maybe not. No doubt about the need for inspection here... But as reloaders, it is normal to try to understand the rational behind these crimps. Perhaps the increased brisance of NT primers is behind the need for a crimp. What do you think?
BR,
Guy-

[AABEN]

Originally Posted by lmcgust

For those reloading 9 mm brass, this may interest you.
Lately, I have seen Federal 9mm NT brass on the ranges I usually go to. Some of this brass is crimped and some is not. For us reloaders, this is bad news as it means more head-stamp inspection . I have a feeling this may be used by provincial law enforcement in our area. On the picture below, you can clearly see the crimp on the two cases on the left, while the case on the right shows what happens when you try to seat a primer. Very frustrating. Inspecting the .45 ACP cases for small primers (Win NT) was bad enough, now it seems we may have to do the same for 9mm FC NT cases. Have you guys seen these cases in your area? I'm new to attachment on this forum... I provide a link to the pic and also attempted to attach the pic directly.
BR,
Guy -

I think it is milltery it is crimp to keep a primer from backing out when fired. All you need to do is ream out thr primer pocket with a pocket reamer. Federal brass is listed as #3 as good brass Lepua is #1 GOOD LUCK

[mikld]

I would consider Federal ran a lot of crimped primers for military contract, and continued to do so for the civilian market. From what I remember, the flash holes were inlarged for NT primers...

[125JHP]

Perhaps the NT primers or the loads don't develop enough pressure quickly enough and the crimp is there to keep the primer from backing out while pressure builds.

[mscampbell2734]

NT and most other NON TOXIC loads use zinc cored bullets. The bullets are much lighter then standard, requiring a much higher muzzle vel to operate the weapon reliably (all things being equal to produce enough recoil)

This in turns means a much higher powder charge, hence the crimped primer to prevent it from backing out.

My department found out the hard way the crimp did not prevent leakage around the primers. Some of our recruit classes had to have the slides on their .40 cal Glocks replaced after the standard 2,000 rds because of excessive pitting and erosion around the firing pin hole in the breach face.

[WR Moore]

Originally Posted by Maximumbob54

I've read the Dillon Super Swage 600 relies heavily on the case web thickness. Get one just out of spec and it doesn't work. But then I've read the RCBS version can ruin case rims. I think we are due for a new primer pocket swage tool soon as this crimped primer pocket issue is on the rise.

If you get a case web notably different from all the rest in the batch, it's going to either not get swaged properly, or you're going to really work your muscles-if you don't have any touch. This is true of ANY primer pocket swaging tool. You're basically driving the swage tool into the case head while the case is supported by the web from the other side.

I've had one of the RCBS versions for decades and can't see how it can damage the rim. The primer pocket swage is on the top of the ram and you're driving against a post set in the die. There's a sliding cap over the swage that pops the case off the swage at the bottom of the ram stroke, but it hits the entire bottom of the case head. The rim of the case isn't involved in the process at all.

[lmcgust]

Thanks a lot mscampbell2734... This is exactly what I wanted to know when I started this thread. Since the pictures I posted showed the cases to be non-military, I knew there had to be a technical reason behind the crimps. Thanks a lot.

Guy-