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Old 07-07-2012, 11:30 PM
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Default Clean burning 44 Mag Powder

Which powder to try next for 44 Mag
So far, I've used 10 grains of Unique for target loads with great accuracy out of my 3" S&W 629. I also have had great results out of 18.5 grains of AA #9 which is my magnum load. I have used up almost all of my AA 9 and am looking for a powder that will give me similar results but be a bit cleaner shooting. The AA shoots almost as dirty as the Unique (almost).

Of course H110 and 2400 come highly reccomended. I understand they both like heavy bullets and a firm crimp to maintain uniform results. Will my 240 grain cast be enough? It is on the heavier side of the 44 cal offerings unless you go for specialty rounds. Also, which meters better? I would assume it would be the round ball H110. Lastly, which shoots the cleanest? I hate getting my nice stainless revolver all sooted up.

I'm also open to other powder choices. Feel free to tell me what you found works.
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:21 AM
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I have used H110/296 and WC820 (H110 burn rate lot) for many years and at least 10,000 rounds in both my Smith 29 and 629's as well as my Rugers and that remains my powder of choice for the .44 Magnum. It is much cleaner burning than 2400, as an example, but you will no doubt have some dirt with any powder. H110 is one of the better choices.

My bullet of choice is a M-P Mould home cast bullet (a 250 gr Keith H&G #503).

Yes, you DO have to have adequate case neck tension for proper burning.

Dale53
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:31 AM
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You are trying some pretty slow powders. Are you going for full power loads, or lighter target loads? If you are trying to make target loads with AA#9, that explains the cleanliness issues. H110/W296 will be just as bad unless you load it toward maximum.

I would recommend you try W231 and 2400. W231 will get you good mid-range loads for the range. 2400 will get you mid-to-upper range loads with plenty of oomfp and great accuracy in my experience. 2400 and 44 Magnum go together like peanut butter and jelly. Both are pretty clean when loaded in their effective ranges of pressure.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:44 AM
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I'm using Unique for target loads. I found that a heavy dose of it burns clean(ish). The AA9 is my full magnum loads. AA9 pushes a 240 cast out at over 1200 fps (only a 3" barrel) which is about par with factory magnum with the same weight.

I didn't realize that there was a surplus equivilent of H110. I will have to look into that as I am trying to get a Widener's group order together with my buddies. I will go through 8 lbs soon enough.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:06 AM
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WSF is a cleaner, better version of Unique so to speak. It is a tiny bit slower in most calibers, burns pretty clean in the 9gr+ range. You may find 2400 a bit better off the top end than AA#9, but it still likes to run hotter for best combustion.
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:33 AM
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Most powder will burn cleaner at the top end of the pressure range so like said above, if you're not loading to high pressures you will find some soot left behind. Also, the bullet lube will also cause soot/dirt to be left behind.

If you are looking for target velocities use a faster powder that can be loaded to higher pressures to keep things clean. W231/HP-38 is a great choice for the lowest velocity loads as long as you load to high pressures for that powder. For medium loads with lead bullets HS-6 is a great choice. (again, when loaded to the higher end of the pressure range) As you know the slowest powders will deliver the highest velocities, like 2400, W296/H110, AA#9, 4227, Lil'Gun, Enforcer and so on.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:35 AM
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Do yourself a favor; skip the milsurp pulldown powders, which vary wildly from lot to lot, and go with Alliant 300-MP, which is nearly the same price with canister consistency and availability.

For example, Barlett's (gibrass.com) WC-820 is $100/8 lbs right now. Most online retailers of 300-MP are $110-120. Powder Valley is $109.50.

Here's my 300-MP range report/comparison with H110/296 on THR, with pics!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8182920

Last edited by nody; 07-08-2012 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale53 View Post
I have used H110/296 and WC820 (H110 burn rate lot) for many years and at least 10,000 rounds in both my Smith 29 and 629's as well as my Rugers and that remains my powder of choice for the .44 Magnum. It is much cleaner burning than 2400, as an example, but you will no doubt have some dirt with any powder. H110 is one of the better choices.

My bullet of choice is a M-P Mould home cast bullet (a 250 gr Keith H&G #503).

Yes, you DO have to have adequate case neck tension for proper burning.

Dale53
Are you looking for 44mag loads? Or are you looking for 45acp-level loads? Big difference.

If you just want put-put loads then go to a faster powder. I've used 6gr of Clays. I don't recommend TiteGroup because it hides in that big case and is easy to double-charge if you're working with a single-stage.

If you want 44mag loads then AA#9, 2400, Enforcer, H110/296, & LilGun will all work nicely when loaded to max. Cleanliness doesn't mean a whole lot to a revolver, but you'll get less chamber fouling at full pressure.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:18 PM
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Are you looking for 44mag loads? Or are you looking for 45acp-level loads? Big difference.

If you just want put-put loads then go to a faster powder. I've used 6gr of Clays. I don't recommend TiteGroup because it hides in that big case and is easy to double-charge if you're working with a single-stage.

If you want 44mag loads then AA#9, 2400, Enforcer, H110/296, & LilGun will all work nicely when loaded to max. Cleanliness doesn't mean a whole lot to a revolver, but you'll get less chamber fouling at full pressure.
I use Unique for low end loads. The AA9 was used to duplicate factory level full magnum loads. But I've use it up and want to try something else because the AA9 was dirty shooting. Yes, I was using 18.5 grains, which is just above starting levels, but the velocity matched factory ammo and was very accurate, so I didn't go any higher.

What I'm asking my powder to do is burn clean and give me factory like full magnum results. I'm sure AA9 would have burned cleaner closer to max loads, but the mid/low load I was using gave me the velocity I wanted and recoil felt the same as factory 240 grain ammo. The AA9 just shot dirty at that level.

All the reviews of H110 on Midway/Cabelas seems to say it hurns clean. Will most likely pick up a pound of that. 300 MP.... The data online looks good, but my books don't mention it and I can't buy it locally. I still might look into it for a group order from Powdr Valley or somewhere like that.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:46 PM
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For full power Mag Loads H110 but you need mag primers unless you have Winchester LPP. 2400 powder is the way to go IMHO. You can down load it some or have full mag and no mag primer needed. Unique and Blue Dot is flaming dirt unless used at max levels.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:58 PM
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full house load and clean .. nope you cant have it.
7 grains of powder will make less of a mess than 24 every time as the full load has more stuff to make a mess with.
you can pick a few nits here and there to clean up a load a little. but that should always take a back seat to performance.
Make power, and put it into a pin point group first.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:58 PM
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I shoot my 629s for target 99% of the time, so I don't need a wrist-wrenching recipe. I load 240-grain lead semi-wadcutters over 5.0 grains of Clays and recommend that powder highly. A lot of people shy away from it for handgun use because it is a shotgun powder first and foremost. But it is about as clean-burning as it gets. Unique and Bullseye leave a sticky black coating on your hand and gun; Clays does not.

Just today, I shot 50 rounds loaded with 5.0 grains of TiteGroup and 50 with 5.0 grains of Clays at 25 yards. The felt recoil was about the same and the TiteGroup load was a smidge more accurate but the difference in cleanliness was remarkable. There was no wind this morning and every TiteGroup round left a cloud hanging in front of me that made me think I was shooting a black powder gun by comparison to the small amount of smoke left by the Clays loads. That's important in an indoor range. And the TiteGroup empty cases were dirtier to handle than those the had Clays in them.

I use a five-inch 629-4 Classic DX for hunting and the only time I load it with full-house magnum fodder is for deer hunting. Since I may go an entire season without seeing a deer I want to harvest, I can't see spending the time to handload ammo for hunting. Accordingly, I use factory-loaded 240-grain Hornady XTP ammo for hunting and ironically, it and my Clays handloads shoot to the exact same point of impact at 25 yards and almost the same POI at 50 yards.

But like most handloaders, I'm never satisfied so I'm going to try Winchester's AutoComp in my 44s and .45ACP. Reviews I've read on it rave about its cleanliness and two friends of mine recommend it, so it's worth a try. Maybe I'll realize the accuracy of TiteGroup with the cleanliness of Clays.

Ed
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:46 AM
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If you're using cast bullets, the greasy grunge you'll see on the outside of your gun and on your hands is mostly bullet lube residue. It just wipes off. Use the powder that works for you and hang the "dirt". It'll come out in the cleaning ritual.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:58 AM
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My preference is for Vihta Vuori powders. With VV 3N37, I get great shooting loads in the 1,250 fps range for a 240 JHP bullet and with VV N-110, I get loads in the 1,400 + fps range. These are chronographed loads that are not far from published velocities from VV load data. Accuracy is superb and both are very clean. The down side is that you pay a bit more for VV powders and they are usually hard to get locally. Buy in bulk to save some money and Hazmat fees.

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Old 07-09-2012, 07:17 AM
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Mike has nailed it, I believe. I use a lot of VV. N110 and it's so clean you can go two or three range sessions without cleaning the gun, if you're so inclined. As already stated, cast bullets will leave residue in addition to the burned powder, so keep that in mind. Vihtavuori powders in general are cleaner burners, if one is to accept the testimony of many users.

H110 is also a pretty clean burner as long as you stay with a near-max charge and use magnum primers to light it up.

Best wishes,
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AveragEd View Post
I shoot my 629s for target 99% of the time, so I don't need a wrist-wrenching recipe. I load 240-grain lead semi-wadcutters over 5.0 grains of Clays and recommend that powder highly. A lot of people shy away from it for handgun use because it is a shotgun powder first and foremost. But it is about as clean-burning as it gets. Unique and Bullseye leave a sticky black coating on your hand and gun; Clays does not.

Just today, I shot 50 rounds loaded with 5.0 grains of TiteGroup and 50 with 5.0 grains of Clays at 25 yards. The felt recoil was about the same and the TiteGroup load was a smidge more accurate but the difference in cleanliness was remarkable. There was no wind this morning and every TiteGroup round left a cloud hanging in front of me that made me think I was shooting a black powder gun by comparison to the small amount of smoke left by the Clays loads. That's important in an indoor range. And the TiteGroup empty cases were dirtier to handle than those the had Clays in them.

I use a five-inch 629-4 Classic DX for hunting and the only time I load it with full-house magnum fodder is for deer hunting. Since I may go an entire season without seeing a deer I want to harvest, I can't see spending the time to handload ammo for hunting. Accordingly, I use factory-loaded 240-grain Hornady XTP ammo for hunting and ironically, it and my Clays handloads shoot to the exact same point of impact at 25 yards and almost the same POI at 50 yards.

But like most handloaders, I'm never satisfied so I'm going to try Winchester's AutoComp in my 44s and .45ACP. Reviews I've read on it rave about its cleanliness and two friends of mine recommend it, so it's worth a try. Maybe I'll realize the accuracy of TiteGroup with the cleanliness of Clays.

Ed
Clays is a great plinker powder - very clean. Fills the case with fluffy barf-green flakes. TiteGroup is the color of soot, has a very high nitro content and will melt the base of lead bullets. But you have much more load latitude with TG.

Been there, done that with AutoComp in the 44mag. The published load data doesn't get the pressure up enough for it to
burn clean.

Here is some 4" barrel 44mag load data you might find helpful - Load Data

Last edited by dla; 07-09-2012 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
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If you're using cast bullets, the greasy grunge you'll see on the outside of your gun and on your hands is mostly bullet lube residue. It just wipes off. Use the powder that works for you and hang the "dirt". It'll come out in the cleaning ritual.
For some reason I had not even thought of that. Its the blue crayon like lube. I didn't think it would vaporize and come spewing out the cylinder gap that soon.

I'll have to load up some jacketed bullets and see if I still get the dirty crud.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:16 PM
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For some reason I had not even thought of that. Its the blue crayon like lube. I didn't think it would vaporize and come spewing out the cylinder gap that soon.

I'll have to load up some jacketed bullets and see if I still get the dirty crud.
the stuff has to spray the bore ahead of the bullet or it won't work. you'd always have dry lead in contact with the bore till ya get to the lube groove which gives the front half of the bullet ideal conditions to lead line the bore.
after the bullet passes any given point in the bore, its subject to high pressure and searing heat which burns off most of the lube.
with cast, messy is a good thing. Its not unlike soldering. clean surfaces solder easy dirty ones dont take. Bullet alloys are just a different ratio mix of solder
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:04 PM
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dla, thanks for the heads-up on AutoComp. I was about to go to my local gun shop and buy some! I have friends who swear by it in the .38 Super and .45ACP; I thought it might also work well in the .44.

Ed
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:28 AM
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Winchester 296 and Hogdon 110 are probably the two cleanest buring magnum pistol powders. 296 is probably a little bit cleaner burning. Both are fine, though.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:02 PM
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But how do those powders work at low charge weights? A lot of magnum handgun powders are very dirty and burn very inconsistently unless loaded fairly hot and I handload all my handgun calibers strictly for target shooting. The only use I have for "magnum-level" loads is deer hunting and the only revolver cartridge I use for hunting is the .44. Since I might go an entire season without firing a shot and have a factory load that shoots well in my 629s, I don't bother with handloading handgun hunting ammo with the exception of for my 14" Contender in 7-30 Waters.

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Old 07-12-2012, 01:17 PM
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But how do those powders work at low charge weights? A lot of magnum handgun powders are very dirty and burn very inconsistently unless loaded fairly hot and I handload all my handgun calibers strictly for target shooting. The only use I have for "magnum-level" loads is deer hunting and the only revolver cartridge I use for hunting is the .44. Since I might go an entire season without firing a shot and have a factory load that shoots well in my 629s, I don't bother with handloading handgun hunting ammo with the exception of for my 14" Contender in 7-30 Waters.

Ed
H110, W296 and LilGun have a very narrow load range. Basically you need a case full to keep the pressure up so the stuff will burn. Manufacturers warn against reduced loads with those powders.

My advice is to buy the correct powder for the application. If you want put-put loads, use a fast pistol powder. If you want loads for armored grizzlies, use slow pistol powders ( Enforcer, H110/296, LilGun).

I personally would skip the mid-range powders (longshot, Autocomp, Power Pistol, Unique, etc.) because they don't really offer anything (can't go slow and clean, and can't go fast). I know people like Unique because someone who used a Sears catalog for toilet paper at the outhouse endorsed it - but times have changed.

The only reason I'm anti-TiteGroup in 44mag is because the stuff really hides in the big case. Soooo easy to miss a double-charge and turn your revolver into a multi-piece takedown special. Otherwise it is a very good powder with a wide load range.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:04 AM
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I loaded some jacketed rounds up with AA9 (my currentbpowder) and found that it shot very clean. It seems that the gunk is indeed just the cast bullet lube and not the powder fouling. So.... I went out and bought another lb of AA. I figure I've already found a load my guns likes very much, so why change it. The only thing that may make me change it in the future is the cost. My local supplier went up on his prices (29.35 a lb vs 28.40 before). I can get H110 for 25 a lb at a big box store, but it takes more per shot, so the cost per powder charge is about the same... Unless the local supplier goes up again.

I understand we need to support our local small shops, but I find that more often than naught, my lolayties lie with my pocket book.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:46 AM
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Jes my opinion; but I think the quest for "cleanest burning powder" is the latest "buzz word". I have been shooting my S&W 629, Ruger Super Blackhawl S.S., my Dan Wesson 44H, G2 .44 Mag. Contender, and a Puma M92 in .44 mag. all with most available powders suitable for .44 Magnum, both jacketed and lead (Bullseye to W296 and a bunch of WC820). I have never had a gun fail to function due to "dirty" powder. Some leave a bit more soot and residue but all my guns get cleaned after each shooting session. I've read complaints of shooters' hands getting dirty after a couple hundred rounds, but that's what soap and water are for, and I usually have a hand towel to wipe my hands and gun during a shooting session (and then there's baby wipes for those that want clean hands when shooting). My stainless steel guns all get a dark ring around the chambers and face of the cylinders, but thats with every powder I've shot (including factory ammo, but I haven't shot any of that in 13 years). I don't know anybody that wears a white tux to go shooting, and some GSR is inevitable. If I want to eat or drink something after shooting, I'll wash my hands. My wife knows when I've gone shooting, not by my dirty hands or face, it's 'cause of that big smile on my face...

Jes an old reloader's opinion/rant
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Old 07-13-2012, 02:45 PM
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Worrying about which powder is cleaner burning when shooting cast bullets in a revolver is probably a waste of time.

Given a choice between the ones mentioned, I pick #2400 because I have never felt entirely comfortable with 296/H110. I don't like the fact that 296/H110 must be "used as directed" (no "working up," no reduced charge weights) and the requirement for magnum primers. I would rather not have to keep magnum primers around. I probably would resort to 296/H110 if loading 300-gr bullets, but I don't load those any longer.

For the magnum revolvers, #2400 is about as good as it gets, for me. I like it well enough that I keep H110 around for .410 skeet loads, but always buy a jug of #2400 for the magnum revolver rounds. It is one of the few things I buy that I think has gotten better over the years, instead of worse.
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