W231 .38 and .357 Magnum loads.

J

JeepinSoldier

Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
609
Reaction score
660
Location
Occupied Colorado
I like to use 231 because I can use it in all my calibers from .380 to 45 ACP.

I have not loaded .38/.357 in years. Looking for loads for 158 grain lead semi wadcutter for:

.38 Special target - for this one I guess the old standby of 4.0 grains 231 is best.

.38 Special +P stockpile, general use.

.357 target.

.357 medium load / general use.

The guns that these loads will be used in are: Model 10 3", Model 65 3", Model 13 3", and Model 19 4".

Yes I have load books - and have searched the net but the data is all over the place.
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
I continue to use Winchesters and Speers +P load data for W231 with relatively soft 158gr lead bullets of 4.5grs to 4.7grs max +P. Usually I use 4.5grs. These loads run between 830 to 900 fps from my 4" revolvers depending upon the gun and primer used. Lead loads listed by Hodgdon are all downloded to cowboy action levels which is a very mild target level.

For the .357 mag I load hard cast bullets at full power (1,250 fps +/-) mostly using 2400 and AA#9. If I was going to use W231 in the .357 mag with 158gr lead bullets I'd keep the load below Speers 5.4gr max and and less than 1,000 fps with soflt swagged or cast bullets. For hard cast work up to no more than 6.7grs max Winchesters data,
 
Some recent results with W231 for +P 38 spl; once fired Federal brass,
WSPM primer, 5.1 grs 231 and TV 158 gr cast SWC. S&Ws 10-5 4" vel=
1003, ES = 14 fps. 10-8 3" vel = 982, ES = 20 fps. 10-5 2" vel = 910,
ES = 12 fps.
A .357 mid range load used Win. brass, WSPM primer, 5.8 grs 231 and
same TV cast bullet. Velocity in my S&W md. 28-2 4" = 1039 fps and
ES = 10 fps.
 
alwslate said:
Some recent results with W231 for +P 38 spl; once fired Federal brass,
WSPM primer, 5.1 grs 231 and TV 158 gr cast SWC. S&Ws 10-5 4" vel=
1003, ES = 14 fps. 10-8 3" vel = 982, ES = 20 fps. 10-5 2" vel = 910,
ES = 12 fps.
A .357 mid range load used Win. brass, WSPM primer, 5.8 grs 231 and
same TV cast bullet. Velocity in my S&W md. 28-2 4" = 1039 fps and
ES = 10 fps.
Click to expand...

Can you provide dails on the TV cast bullet? Never heard of them. Any idea what the hardness is?

I recently started load workup for a 4" 686, w/ a Dardas 158 grn / .358" / SWC-BB / 16BHN. I picked Dardas, as I've had very good results w/ their 200 SWC / .452", 45acp bullet.

Starline 357 brass, & WWSP primers.

Never loaded 357 before, & was not sure what to expect. Started out w/ Unique: 5.1, 5.4, & 5.7. Groups tightened up as the charge increased, & no leading, so intend to try 6.0, & 6.3 soon.

Also plan to try Titegroup, as I've got a bunch.

I also noted that all groups fired hit very low. I had to crank the rear site all the way up - to hit point of aim. I'm thinking a snappier load might require less sight adjustment.
 
I have always used the 4.0 grain/158 LSWC load using Federal small pistol primers.
Recently a friend remarked that he always uses magnum primers with 231.
I'm planning to load a batch of each and do a chrono test.
Just wondering what primers others are using with 231?
 
Steve C said:
I continue to use Winchesters and Speers +P load data for W231 with relatively soft 158gr lead bullets of 4.5grs to 4.7grs max +P. Usually I use 4.5grs. These loads run between 830 to 900 fps from my 4" revolvers depending upon the gun and primer used. Lead loads listed by Hodgdon are all downloded to cowboy action levels which is a very mild target level.

For the .357 mag I load hard cast bullets at full power (1,250 fps +/-) mostly using 2400 and AA#9. If I was going to use W231 in the .357 mag with 158gr lead bullets I'd keep the load below Speers 5.4gr max and and less than 1,000 fps with soflt swagged or cast bullets. For hard cast work up to no more than 6.7grs max Winchesters data,
Click to expand...

Thanks Steve, and others that have posted!

Exactly the answers I was looking for! I know you should experiment and develop your own loads, but I dont have alot of time currently and am looking for safe target and medium loads to start with that generally are accurate in S&W K frames.
 
Im planning on using the Missouri Bullet Company LSWC's.

For the .38 and .357 light loads:

.38 Match
.358 Diameter
.38 Special
158 Grain SWC
Brinell 12
For Target Velocities

For the .357 medium loads:

.357 Action!
.358 Diameter
.357 Magnum
158 Grain SWC
Brinell 18
For Magnum Velocities

I want to keep the .357's at around 1000 - 1200 fps.
 
JeepinSoldier said:
Im planning on using the Missouri Bullet Company LSWC's.

For the .38 and .357 light loads:

.38 Match
.358 Diameter
.38 Special
158 Grain SWC
Brinell 12
For Target Velocities

For the .357 medium loads:

.357 Action!
.358 Diameter
.357 Magnum
158 Grain SWC
Brinell 18
For Magnum Velocities

I want to keep the .357's at around 1000 - 1200 fps.
Click to expand...

I use both those bullets (the same other than hardness) They soft ones with HP 38/W231. If you plan on using the same powder for 357 use the same softer bullets.

HP 38/W 231 is my all around favorite powder for loading pretty much every caliber but if you want to load 357 magnums there are better powders for the hard cast bullets. HP 38 is to fast for true mag velocities so you are just going to be shooting +P 38's out of 357 Mag brass (which is fine)

Reduced loads of 2400 or similar slower powder will give more of the magnum punch. You do not need to go beyond med level loads and beat up your hand and guns for general shooting.

A side note to TAROMAN, I see no reason to use a Magnum, primer with HP 38. Hodgdon does list the use of them in their data which I called them and they stated that they use Mag primers on all tested Magnum loads and powders to keep things consistent. Most manuals and tests with will not indicate a mag primer except for powders like H110 ,HS 6
That's why 2400 has an advantage, it can be reduced much more and no mag primer needed compared to H110.
 
TAROMAN said:
I have always used the 4.0 grain/158 LSWC load using Federal small pistol primers.
Recently a friend remarked that he always uses magnum primers with 231.
I'm planning to load a batch of each and do a chrono test.
Just wondering what primers others are using with 231?
Click to expand...
Even though W231 is a ball powder it doesn't seem to be as hard to ignite as it's slower brother, W296. While W296 seems to do best with a magnum primer I have never seen the need for a magnum primer with W231.

I'm very interested in your test with both. Please make a new thread so we can talk about it when you gather your data.
 
Hodgdon's current load data lists a Max charge of W231 under a 158gr SWC as 5.0gr in a .357 Magnum. The pressure they report is not even a hot standard pressure .38 Special load. Older sources list a charge range of 6.0gr to 6.7gr W231 under a 158gr SWC. The Max charge of 6.7gr might be a little on the hot side so I would work up from 6.0gr slowly.

Sorry I don't have first hand W231 .357 Magnum data because I use HS-6 when I want middle hot lead magnum loads instead of W231. I see no reason to use W231 though if that's what you have.
 
GCF, Tennessee Valley Bullets, one of the forum vendors. Check their
web site for information on their bullets. Titegroup works well for mid-
range .357 loads. Win. brass, Win. std. SP primer, 5.6 grs Titegroup,
TV 158 gr cast SWC = 1056 fps in my 4" 28-2. I use magnum primers
with 231 because consistancy is improved over standard primers.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
Hodgdon's current load data lists a Max charge of W231 under a 158gr SWC as 5.0gr in a .357 Magnum. The pressure they report is not even a hot standard pressure .38 Special load. Older sources list a charge range of 6.0gr to 6.7gr W231 under a 158gr SWC. The Max charge of 6.7gr might be a little on the hot side so I would work up from 6.0gr slowly.

Sorry I don't have first hand W231 .357 Magnum data because I use HS-6 when I want middle hot lead magnum loads instead of W231. I see no reason to use W231 though if that's what you have.
Click to expand...

There is something peculiar about Hodgdon's data for W231 under a 200gr LSWC for both .38 Special and .357 Magnum. The COAL listed is significantly shorter than other published data. If you look at Hornady data for their very soft, swaged LSWC, the max appears to be based on keeping velocity below the point of bad leading rather than excessive pressure. The introductory text in my Hornady manual is fairly explicit about the velocity limits for their LSWC. Given the pressures show in the Hodgdon's data I'm guessing that they are using the same approach.
 
JeepInSoldier,
Here is my 2 cents with this load - now these are "every day target loads", nothing close to or over the top mind you.

Bullet - 158g LSWC (your choice)
Powder - Winchester 231 @ 4.0g
Powder range - 3.4g up to 5.0g (LEE revisied 8th Edition)
Burn Rate - #29 (Hodgdon)
Primer - Winchester WSP
Bullet seating OAL - 1.580"
Velocity - 744.5 fps
Test gun - S&W 357 mag. model 28-2 w/6" barrel

This load is a soft shooting & accurate load (tested out to 50 yards) again nothing to write home about but easy on the wrist and fun to shoot all day.

Just some FYI... have fun and be safe
 
alwslate said:
GCF, Tennessee Valley Bullets, one of the forum vendors. Check their
web site for information on their bullets. Titegroup works well for mid-
range .357 loads. Win. brass, Win. std. SP primer, 5.6 grs Titegroup,
TV 158 gr cast SWC = 1056 fps in my 4" 28-2. I use magnum primers
with 231 because consistancy is improved over standard primers.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!
 
I see all of these load data and velocity results and some mention of accuracy. Is it fair to ask what kind (size) of groups these rounds are producing?
 
I've had great results from HP38/231/with 158g SWC & FRN in both 38 & 357 mag at 900 to 1100 fps in 5.5" barreled m627. They work very well also in Ruger Vaquero and Security 6.

I've used comparable recipe for velocity/accuracy for Tite Group. Prefer the HP38/231 for slight edge in accuracy.

Looking for 357 Mag load for 158 SWC lead @ 1200+. Older manuals sure have hotter loads than newer ones. Have misplaced Skeeter's 2400 data, but IIRC that was for JHP not lead.
 
m657 said:
I've had great results from HP38/231/with 158g SWC & FRN in both 38 & 357 mag at 900 to 1100 fps in 5.5" barreled m627. They work very well also in Ruger Vaquero and Security 6.

I've used comparable recipe for velocity/accuracy for Tite Group. Prefer the HP38/231 for slight edge in accuracy.
Click to expand...

When you say "comparable recipe", are you reffering to actual charge weight?

I've noticed that Hodgdon's 231 / Titegroup data for the 158 LSWC shows almost identical max load / velocity for the two. Max load pressure is a bit higher for the Titegroup, IIRC. Also noticed that the HP38 / 231 shows a much lower starting load - for some reason...
 
don't have the actual numbers at hand right now, but as I've done considerable reloading with these components can comment on results in my own use....

It seems I get best results in a certain velocity range, which is often down a couple .tenths of charge weight, from the max listed.

Not sure what really accounts for that result.

My main use at the range these days is the rather large steel plates from 4" to 14" out to about 30 yards. I like to have "bowling pin" minute of accuracy for anything I load, with comfort of recoil to enjoy several hundred rounds on target with no residual aches & miseries. As a geezer I have plenty of those without adding to the collection. And with geezer eyes upon me, the demands of such as Bulls Eye targets is simply frustration.

Falling plate racks at 25 yards is my main method of establishing what these loads need to do.

There is little difference between 750 fps or 1100 fps, as the plates go down easily when 200-230 g of cast lead initiates an impact anywhere on the plate.

Moving to 38 caliber, several of the plate racks at my club tend to get stubborn when using 130 gr even at 1100 fps....yet the 158 gr tends to overcome such reluctance.
 
m657 said:
...don't have the actual numbers at hand right now, but as I've done considerable reloading with these components can comment on results in my own use....

It seems I get best results in a certain velocity range, which is often down a couple .tenths of charge weight, from the max listed.

Not sure what really accounts for that result.
Click to expand...

Well, actual numbers aside, are you using a bevel base SWC, gas checked, or plain base?

For my 4" 686 (no dash), I'm currently loading a Dardas 158LSWC-BB / .358" / 16BHN. Initially tried 5.1 - 6.3 Unique / WWSP / Starline 357 brass. Results were just so - so, w/ best groups at 6.0 grns.

Groups for all but max, were well below point of aim.

Thinking the bevel base isn't helping, & also 16BHN may be a bit too hard for target 38spl / 38spl +p velocity w/ this powder.

Titegroup & 231 are up next, as I've got it on hand.

Oh for the record, fully understand the "geezer" thing. No seriously, don't ask... ;=]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

AJ
Max Loading for .357 Mag with 2400
2 3
Replies
41
Views
2K
rockquarry
R
T
CFE pistol for .38 and .357?
Replies
16
Views
1K
SLT223
SLT223
O
38 Smith & Wesson Short 148 LWCHB seating depth
Replies
2
Views
218
Oldgunslover
O
J
38 Special Load w/RNP Bullet Load Data Needed
2
Replies
22
Views
2K
sniper
S
D
357 Bunny Loads for old man
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
slickracer
S

Latest posts

Back
Top