LEE PERFECT POWDER MEASURE INCONSISTENT

Geo9547 · #1 10-05-2012, 06:33 AM

I am having a problem with this powder measure holding a consitent load. I will get it to 5.2 for 3 or 4 straight drops and then is will go to 5.1, then 5.4, then hold 5.2 for several rounds, well you get the picture. Consequently I am afraid to just keep on loading powder when it could be swinging 1 or 2 points either way. I am using Win 231 powder. I have checked the grains with both a digital scale and the Lee beam scale. Any suggestions about what I may be doing wrong, if anything.

My son has the same measure and he seems to be having the same issue with his rifle loads.

I have be reloading for only a couple of months so I have alot to learn but this one baffels me.

Thanks,
George

SMSgt · #2 10-05-2012, 08:16 AM

I use HP-38, which is the same as 231, and in my antique Herter's powder dropper, my loads never vary as much as 0.1 grain. 231 should be much more consistant than what you're getting. Longer spherical powders are another story.

You need to be consistant with your measure, meaning swinging the arm the same every time. Also run several drops before weighing as the powder must settle first. I usually drop about ten loads before weighing and making any adjustments. And keep the hopper on the full side.

Sometimes you get what you pay for. You might comsider investing in a better powder measure.

Maximumbob54 · #3 10-05-2012, 08:23 AM

Take it apart and clean it. My Hornady, Lyman, and RCBS powder measures will all do this if I don't from time to time if I don't clean them. I've used the Perfect Powder Measure and found it to be just as functional as the rest of them. It is in no way a lesser quality measure. If I can load a bucket of .223 with IMR 3031 and get consistant loads and the Perfect Powder Measure can chew through all those 3031 sticks then it's a good enough measure in my book.

mchech · #4 10-05-2012, 08:42 AM

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. That is just the nature of the beast. The variations in stroking the handle, vibration and the mount flexing causes the powder to settle different in the powder measure cylinder every time.

When loading ball powder in my RCBS Uniflow I accept plus or minus 0.1 grain as perfectly normal and the best I can get. My loads are safely under max so there is room for error. I made a powder measure stand from 1/2" thick steel. There is NO flex or vibration and I strive for a consistent stroke yet I get the variation. When loading extruded powder I set the measure to throw light and trickle to my set point. I retired my Lee measure because I could not eliminate the flex and vibration.

If you need "dead nuts" accuracy set low and trickle up.

Biginge · #5 10-05-2012, 08:51 AM

Go with RCBS and you should eleviate the problem.

Regards

Bill

Rule3 · #6 10-05-2012, 11:07 AM

I would "bet" your variation is more in you digital scale and Lee beam scale.

The Lee PPM is very accurate, been there done that tested it
ad nauseum. It works as well as my RCBS. Some flake powder no, but HP 38 is just fine.

Has it been "broken in" Run a full hopper of powder through it??

Guess there is not a stand alone Blue model to tell you to buy

carpriver · #7 10-05-2012, 12:01 PM

As has been stated drop 10 or so loads before your first measure. Clean the hopper after each reloading event. I clean the hopper with soap and water and let it air dry, the soap residue reduces static. clean all our medal parts well (no water) and use a dryer sheet in the drop tube. Fill the hopper full and go to the hardware store and get a flat washer that fits the hopper and place that on top of the powder. Your pulling of the press lever needs to be be smooth and consistent. If you do this your drops will improve to .01. Check out Lees web site, there all some helpful videos on the powder messure.

1sailor · #8 10-05-2012, 12:16 PM

I have loaded thousands of 9mm rounds using the same Lee measure as yours. I have only used W231 and Universal but I have found my loads to be amazingly consistant. I have been totaly amazed by it every time I empty a case into the scale to check it. It seems to throw charges as accurate as I could get with my RCBS beam scale. I'm not sure why yours would be any different but from my own experience I would say that with W231 it should be pretty much dead nuts on every time.

Rule3 · #9 10-05-2012, 12:32 PM

Why would one need to "clean" the powder hopper?? I have never cleaned one, Lee PPM, Lee Auto Disc, RCBS??
The coating of the fine powder dust(graphite?) is what keeps the static off which is why Lee says to run a full hopper through the measure.

mikld · #10 10-05-2012, 12:58 PM

I too, have loaded a bunch of 38s with W231, measured with my PPM, and kept charges less than 1/10th grain. For any powder measure to be consistant, the operator must be consistant. Every throw needs to be the same as the previous throw (lever speed, tap/no tap, bump lever at end of throw, how you hold your tongue, etc.). I have a digital scale that will weigh to hundredths of a grain. I have to ignore that third digit or I'll go nuts trying to adjust the measure. Also, the digital scale needs to be "zeroed" or "tared" often (sometimes more accurate is a pain in the butt).

Colhogan · #11 10-05-2012, 03:24 PM

This is why I just use the scoops with my Lee reloading system.
I've reloaded 10,000 rounds + with the scoop system and it works just fine..

67tempest · #12 10-05-2012, 03:38 PM

I throw 50 loads at a time and then pull 3 or 4 randomly out of the block to weight them. If any are more than .1 grain off one way or the other I dump the whole 50 back and try again. Most of the time they are darn near perfect but occasionally you can be inconsistant with the measure and that will affect the weight of the charge you throw. My loads are very mild so .1 of a grain one way or the other makes no difference. I wouldn't worry as long as your loads are with .1 of each other. When I load for bench rest rifle I throw every load low and then sneak up on it with a trickler to get it perfect.

arjay · #13 10-05-2012, 03:46 PM

I weigh every tenth charge on my old rcbs scale (even unique) when I'm doing pistol loads.It's been a foolproof method for 30 years

Geo9547 · #14 10-05-2012, 05:31 PM

Thanks for all of your responses. I know that there would have to be some variance but I was trying to square that with other reloaders with more expericnce than I have suggesting I make loads of say 5.0gr and 5.2gr and 5.4gr to see which I like best. Well, if 5.0 can be 5.1 and 5.2 can be 5.1 you end up with the same load?? Maybe I am trying to cut it to fine. Should probably just go for 5.2 and what I get I get. BTW, I strive to make the pull the same every time and I have put a pound of W231 through the hopper.

Thanks again,
George

Rule3 · #15 10-05-2012, 06:19 PM

I doubt you (or any one) is going to notice a difference in a .1 or .2 gr variance. You never said what bullet or gun?

johngalt · #16 10-05-2012, 08:21 PM

I was only ever able to get mine to work consistently by turning the handle to fill the powder tube, tap it a few times to make sure it is fully filled. Then turn it back to dump the powder into the case, and tap it again to make sure it empties.

IMO, the Lee PPM is ****. It leaks powder everywhere, it gets into the mechanism and binds it up, is difficult to operate consistently. Yes, if work hard enough at it, you can make it work. But there are lots of much better options.

Maximumbob54 · #17 10-05-2012, 08:30 PM

Always has to be a Lee hater in the thread.

GypsmJim · #18 10-05-2012, 08:37 PM

Do you load one at a time? If so, you're not consistent because of the lag time between loads.

Put all of your primed rounds in a loading block, then powder charge them all at once. Once you get in the groove in a continuous operation of the handle you'll probably minimize your variation.

My Lee powder measure is consistently right on the money.

Twoboxer · #19 10-06-2012, 01:32 AM

First of all, your scale is only accurate to +/- 0.1gr, and if you're lucky your powder measure will keep the same tolerance. So the variation in actual powder load - if all goes within tolerances - can be +/- 0.2gr.

If all didn't go well, any volumetric powder measure (like your Lee) would have a hard time throwing a charge significantly OVER the target weight, but could easily throw one a few tenths under.

So the point of 0.2gr steps in buildup loads is that the loads will actually cluster (in weight) around your target charge, and give a reasonable representation of it . . . on average.

If you want higher and repeatable accuracy, you're looking at an extremely significant investment in loading time, and likely in scales. And after you conquer that hurdle, you could then consider applying the same rigorous approach to bullet weights, brass size and weight, concentricity . . . and so forth.

tappedandtagged · #20 10-06-2012, 04:02 AM

I took mine apart and lubed it with graphite. That helped smooth it up. As far as consistent drops, I've had great consistency with ball and extruded powder. Flake (Unique), not so much. But my Unique loads are so mild I usually don't care if the loads are a couple tenths off. When the max is 13 and I'm only using 10 grains, I have a ton of wiggle room for my 44 mag plinking rounds.

Geo9547 · #21 10-06-2012, 07:30 AM

Rule3, the bullet is a Missouri 45 acp lead flat head and the gun is a S&W 1911 45.
To all, I am not trying to get dead nuts accurate. At my age, eye sight, nerves etc, I can only get so good. Being new reloading I didn't know if the variation I was seeing was "normal". It seems that it is.
As usual, great advice from everyone.

Rule3 · #22 10-06-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johngalt

I was only ever able to get mine to work consistently by turning the handle to fill the powder tube, tap it a few times to make sure it is fully filled. Then turn it back to dump the powder into the case, and tap it again to make sure it empties.

IMO, the Lee PPM is ****. It leaks powder everywhere, it gets into the mechanism and binds it up, is difficult to operate consistently. Yes, if work hard enough at it, you can make it work. But there are lots of much better options.

For $20 , 191 Lemmings must be wrong

Lee Perfect Powder Measure

1sailor · #23 10-06-2012, 12:27 PM

I must be one of the lucky ones or something. My PPM has been flawless since day one. I'm totaly surprised to read that anyone is having problems with theirs. Why the big difference. Mine doesn't do any of those things that some are complaining about. It just continues to constantly throw accurate charges that never seem to vary at all without scattering powder anywhere.

firecracker6 · #24 10-06-2012, 02:12 PM

I suspect you're experiencing 2 problems. First, it's not broken in. You can alleviate this somewhat by lubing the internals w/ graphite or just using it until it breaks in. Second, you probably have some powder sticking in the "throwing chamber." If it dumps a light charge try tapping the side of the measure a little (while the handle is down) and see if flakes of powder fall out. In the Lee manual Richard Lee recommends eliminating this problem by cutting off the handle stop with a knife. This will allow the drum to rotate down further to ensure all the powder gets dropped out. I bought my Lee measure in 1993 and it's proven to be a reasonably good one, as a matter of fact I still use it. My only real complaint is it won't dump fine powders correctly. If you try using a really fine powder like AA 5, 7, or 9 it will leak out the sides of the measure.

1sailor · #25 10-06-2012, 03:03 PM

Something I just thought of is that I am not using the Auto Disc Riser. I bought one but don't seem to need it. Everything works just fine. The measure does tap the primer feeder just slightly as it rotates but this hasn't caused any problems for me. In fact I think it may help the primers feed better (just a thought, no real evidence). If you guys that are having problems are using the riser, try it without.

Maximumbob54 · #26 10-06-2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1sailor

Something I just thought of is that I am not using the Auto Disc Riser. I bought one but don't seem to need it. Everything works just fine. The measure does tap the primer feeder just slightly as it rotates but this hasn't caused any problems for me. In fact I think it may help the primers feed better (just a thought, no real evidence). If you guys that are having problems are using the riser, try it without.

If you keep the Pro Auto rotated to being inside the swing of the rotation then yes it only slightly hits the primer tray. Let that thing swing out just a little bit though and it will send your primers flying if you aren't paying attention to it. I don't know that from experience though. I didn't have to dig all those primers out from the floor under the bench or anything. Nope, not me. I never do silly things like that...

I still love that press.