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Old 08-26-2012, 01:06 PM
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Default Webley 38/200 reloading

Hello ,

i wouldlike to start reload the crtrgs for my "new" Webley
(a Tsahal service rev surplus )

would be nice to replicate ( or go close the concept )
the original bullet weight ( MKI ammo )

while waiting for the Lee 38S&W set dies arrival , i "slugged" the barrel and the cast i got is 0.363 ( bore )

the bullet of the commercial ammo i bought ( Fiocchi FMJ 146 gr ) have a diameter of only 0.3565 ( ah ! ..i tested and saw a poor accuracy )

well now i wouldlike start the experience with a HN ( coppered lead ) 180 gr 0.358 - the same i utilize in my 357 mag. Uberti Remington 1875

i also considered to size to 0,360/0,362 a commercial 200 gr lead S&W 40 bullet by customizing a Lee bullet sizer die

i considered to utilize a load of Vihtavuori N320 ( start from 1,8 gr about - i will see by my QL)

has anyone ever done something like this ? ?
and also in this cal ammo ?

Thank you in advance for the eperience sharing

regards

CC
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Old 08-26-2012, 02:32 PM
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I don't believe you'll find a .363 jacketed bullet for your 38/200. Most of the people I know are using unsized bullets from Lymans 358430 mould, which is actually a roundnose bullet, originally designed for 35 Remington rifles. There are also custom moulds available that closely match the profile of the original 380/200 military bullet. However, you would still need to cast the bullets yourself. Some early Ideal moulds are of sufficient diameter too, like 360271, but it's only about 150 gr. I've also seen Lyman 358311s that cast around 360-361. Trying to size down a 40 cal bullet to .363 is going to frustrate you beyond belief.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:03 PM
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You might be able to get him to send you some unsized bullets. You'll need to lube them if he does. LLA would probably work fine. 38 Cal. (38 S&W) : Matts Bullets
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:58 PM
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Great advice so far. Don't even bother with jacketed .357 bullets in your .363 bore--you won't get accuracy, but at the low operating pressures involved, there's a decent chance of getting a bullet stuck in the bore. You'll even find that some makes of 38 S&W brass are suitable for these smaller bullets, but others won't be--you can't get sufficient neck tension to make a consistent cartridge. Lead is the way to go, and Matt can help you greatly if he's caught up on his backlog.

I shoot a number of different revolvers in that caliber, and although it's practical to use 38 SPL component bullets for the .356-.357 Colts and Rugers, and often even in the .359 solid-frame Smith & Wessons, groove sizes of the older guns often are in the .362-.365 range. For these, you'll need to cast them yourself or track down a commercial caster.

Last edited by LouisianaMan; 08-26-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 08-26-2012, 04:58 PM
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If you can't find a properly sized bullet you can always use the factory swaged 148 grain hollow base wadcutters seated farther out in the case.

These bullets are very soft, especially the Speer, and over a charge of fast powder the base will expand to fill the grooves perfectly.

The full diameter nose seated out of the case will also help center the cartridge in the chamber and may improve accuracy.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:12 PM
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The Western Bullet Company has a 200gr lead bullet sized to .360" (Lyman #358430) that works very well for 38/200 ammo. I like their 170gr bullet (H&G #512) much better though, it's just about perfect for .38 S&W ammo IMO.
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:21 PM
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While the British designation for the cartridge (.38 S&W) was .38-200 as a result of original testing being done with 200 gr. bullets, the bullet weight finally settled on for service ammunition for the cartridge was 160 grains. It is a common misconception that a 200 gr. bullet was used! Any 158-160 gr. round nose bullet for .38 Special will do quite well. Other SWC bullets will be fine too, unless you want a bullet shaped like the military load.

Before settling on a .363 bullet try slugging the throats in the cylinder. There is no reason to use bullets larger than the throats if they are smaller than the bore.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:01 PM
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The published sources I've seen concur that the British Army indeed adopted a 200g LRN bullet as their Mark 1/1Z ammo in the late '20s and finally standardized the ammunition in the early 1930's. By the mid-to-late 1930s, Hague Convention concerns led them to adopt a 178g FMJ bullet, designated Mark 2/2Z. The "Z" designator indicated the use of nitrocellulose propellant instead of cordite.

Over on the Cast Boolit forums, you can see published original Brit tech drawings that we're using as a template for a group buy of molds to duplicate the 200g Mk 1 bullet, although our version will be flat-based rather than hollow-based to facilitate casting.

The 38 S&W 200g Super Police cartridge was in relatively widespread use in American police departments starting about 1930, and was virtually identical to the British Mk 1 ammunition. Sources I've seen are unable to determine which side of the Atlantic the design originated on, or whether their simultaneous appearance was coincidental.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:43 AM
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First , thanks to all for the quick replays

Well ,i have taken note of the suppliers you indicate
( ...i have already sent e -mails and i'm waiting for the answers )

meantime i will slug the chambers (....thank you Alk 8944) to "focusing" the correct bullet size and also will make a test with some 158 gr WadcutterHB

well , a.s.a.p. i will tell you the second episode

regards

CC
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:21 PM
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If the throats in your cyl are smaller that the 0.363" diameter of your barrel. You will probably end up taking the revolver to a smith before you get any accuracy out of it, unless you use hollow base bullets. Plus one on Cerberus62's suggestion of the HBWC's.
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:23 AM
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Good idea the hollow base , i quote it is the only way to obtain accuracy from this "granny" quickly and without particular problems :-))

.....but it is not his bullet :-((((

Today i received a negative answer from Matt's Bullets :-(((((
( it seem the USA law forbid the delivery of materials like bullets in Italy ) .....but i ask me , the other products from USA i buy currently in Italy ??? ( like IMR/Winch./Sierra/Federal etcc... - boh ! - may be it need some kind of authoriz. hi have not )

ok , we 'll find an other way - ;-))

Some of you know if the mould utilized from Matt for the 38 200 it is a his realization or came from a producer ( Like Lyman or other ? ) - so i could obtain it through the Ita importer and supply it to a local caster

i searched in the Lyman and RCBS website but i do not found anything

Waiting for some help

regards

CC
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
The Western Bullet Company has a 200gr lead bullet sized to .360" (Lyman #358430) that works very well for 38/200 ammo. I like their 170gr bullet (H&G #512) much better though, it's just about perfect for .38 S&W ammo IMO.
I've used these bullets, which seem to shoot well enough out of Enfield revolvers- at 25 yards anyway....





You might even be able to reuse them after firing. Here's one dug out of a 50 yard target frame (oops!) that just needs a little clean up:




Last edited by jaymoore; 08-28-2012 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:26 AM
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Mhhhh.... bullet recycling ? nice ! ...ecologically correct ;-)

In fact i asked also Western Bull. for these bullets ( i'm waiting for an answer)

Meantime i will check the mould availability with Midway Italy
( but if it is possible i wouldlike avoid the home casting )

Thank you

CC
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:07 PM
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One is certainly not going to get match-grade accuracy form an old Webley breaktop, and I wouldn't even expect much, or try very hard to achieve that. Further, there is very little point in trying to go with max loads.

I have had good results with loading the .38 S&W (same case as .38/200) with standard .357-.358 bullets in my .38 S&W-chambered revolvers (none of which are Webleys). However, If you want some larger diameter ones, Missouri Bullet Co. (Google it) sells cast .361" 145 grain cast lead RN bullets very reasonably. Load them over 3.0-3.5 grains of Unique and have fun.
----------------
Sorry - as it seems you may be in Italy, so much for using Unique and ordering cast bullets, unless those are available there.

Last edited by DWalt; 08-28-2012 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:55 PM
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.....third episode

I searched an saerched , but to no avail ;

Here in Ita it seem impossible to find any bullet lead
more then 158 gr. RN sized .362 - only .358 max !

I also tried to shoot more kind of commercial bullet ( lead only
and coppered also , WCHB and RN) with the same result :

The bullet (the best a.3585 lead ) force poorly into the lands
( "dance" into the barrel ) and the accuracy it is ......not poor , ......inexistent !

Finally i gave up and i ordered at NEI Handtools the appropriate mould ( 200 gr RN Lead sized .362 ) so i will
obtain the right bullet (even if this means i will have to
start to cast ) ....not easy the good results road

......in 20 days about the fourth episode

CC
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:27 PM
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I'm sure you will have good luck with the bullets you drop from that mold. Keep us updated...
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
I'm sure you will have good luck with the bullets you drop from that mold. Keep us updated...
Thank you ,

i do not know nothing about the cast world , ....i think i did the right thing ( also in the supplier choice )

a.s.a.p. i will tell

regards

CC
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:18 PM
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Do a little reading & you'll be casting good bullets before long. Believe me, a guy like you who can carry on an international correspondence in a foreign language is plenty smart enough to cast bullets! The real pros can make it sound like rocket science when it comes to thinking of every single factor, but simply making decent shootable bullets isn't that difficult. It will be a lot of fun--I think I like it as much as shooting!
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisianaMan View Post
Do a little reading & you'll be casting good bullets before long. Believe me, a guy like you who can carry on an international correspondence in a foreign language is plenty smart enough to cast bullets! The real pros can make it sound like rocket science when it comes to thinking of every single factor, but simply making decent shootable bullets isn't that difficult. It will be a lot of fun--I think I like it as much as shooting!

Thank you LouisianaMan , ...you are very kind

you're right about the pleasure - i feel the same ( really more fun to reloading then shooting )

Well , yesterday i bought the Lymann Cast Bullet Handbook so
, meantime my mould it is ready , i will can learn something from Mr. Venturino

I think (as for most of the life's things) the difficult it is only into starting to do ......and moreover i can 't deny , at this point , that should be really great start to cast bullets also for my other weapons

Especially the two rifle would thank me for getting away the stress of the FMJ bull. - ( a Enfield 4 LB 1945 and a Schmidt R. K31 1942 ) - a bit of respect for the age ...!

Well , step by step .... for now ( when the mould will be in my hands ) will start with the Webley bullets

a.s.a.p ( i hope ) i will post news about

Thank you again for your support :-)))

CC
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