I just bought my first Reloading book (Modern Reloading 2nd Edition by Richard Lee) and reading it along w/watching some YouTube videos on different presses.

I was looking at the Lee Pro 1000 but I see a lot of problems on YouTube (might be operator error etc).

Not really sure what to get.

Looking to stay around $350.00 max.

Thanks again,
Jim

There's a Dillon RL450 with the "buy it now" option on eBay for $250.00. That would be a good one. Later you could order the 550 frame and upgrade it for around $100.00.

What about the Hornady LNL AP? This guy seemed to do a pretty comprehensive review of Dillon vs Hornady vs Lee, and the Hornady seemed to edge slightly ahead in a couple of areas, and it's a lot cheaper. I watched a view youtube videos of folks using it, and it looks like a good machine. I know nothing has as good a warranty as Dillon, though. I'm not going to be purchasing for a couple of months, so I'm gathering research and opinions in the mean time. Any Hornady LNL AP owners or previous owners care to comment?

I would go with Harnady LNL AP or a Dillon 550 if you need to reload rifle. If not there is the Square Deal B for pistol only. Problem with it is you must use the Dillon special dies.i have owned Dillon and used Hornady. They are both good machines. I tend to like the Harnady better. I like the Shell Plate setup on the Hornady better than the Dilllon.

Yes, I guess it helps to mention what I'll be reloading. I'll be doing .40 S&W, a little bit of 9mm, some .308 and .30-06, so pistol and rifle. Although, I currently have a Lee single stage, so I was thinking maybe using the progressive for pistol rounds (since I blow through pistol ammo like crazy) and using the single stage for 'match grade' rifle ammo. Thoughts?

Are you are a mechanical kinda guy and enjoy tinkering with machines? If yes the the Lee is a fine machine for the money, just be ready to tinker with it to get it to run right, sort of like an old British sports car or Vintage Harley. If you just want to get on it and start making ammo then get something else, anything else. I have had a Lee 1000 for 20 years set up as my .38 wadcutter machine, and when it works it is very fast, much faster than my Dillon 550. But the Lee can be a cantankerous beast and needs a tune up after every 1-2000 rounds. The Dillon has never needed tweeking to run right, it just works.

Edit: If you are going to make rifle ammo as well then get a Dillon, I often use mine as a single stage to craft my 06 loads, it's plenty beefy. Though they advertise the Lee as being able to change calibers it involves a complete tear down of the machine, you would be better off buying a separate machine for each caliber. You may be better of just getting a Rock Chukker

__________________
Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

I have the older Hornady Projector press that I've up dated with most of the L&L accessories .I load .9MM,.38 SPEC.,.357 MAG., .41 MAG. .44 SPEC.,.44 MAG., .45ACP and .45 COLT on it and love it. I do load all my rifle ammo on a single stage RCBS Rock Chucker press. I also know a few friends that use the Hornady L&L press and like them.

I have a Hornady single stage, a Lyman turret press, and recently got a Hornady progressive. Only been reloading for 3-1/2 years and not high volumes, so YMMV.

I only use the single stage for rifle hand loads. There are only two dies and you need to do case prep in between those two steps. Plus I prefer hand priming so I can check every primer's seating depth by touch. That's especially important for service rifles with floating firing pins. Finally, .308 Win requires a lot of work to resize and I don't want any deflection when doing that step. Don't want any deflection when seating rifle bullets either.

$325 won't get you close to a Hornady progressive. Don't forget that you'll need dies, bushings, and shellplates.

If your budget is set and you're only loading for pistols, a turret press might be a good alternative. No, it won't be as fast as a progressive, but it can be a lot faster than a single stage. Size & bell, then hand prime, load in trays, then seat & crimp back on the press. Probably can find a Redding T-7 or Lyman T-Mag II used for a good deal too.

I like the Hornady AP for longer runs of known-good hand loads. However, if I could only have one press for pistol rounds, it probably would be the turret. Especially if I were on a tight budget. I'd rather spend my $$ on quality dies, brass, powder and bullets.

How much ammo do you want to make?

I have a lee loadmaster (the 1000's bigger bro, like a dillon 650 for comparison). The lee works and makes great ammo. I can do 350-400 pistol rounds an hour on it. I can change calibers in 10 minutes.
But as stated, it can be fiddly. That accounted for in the production numbers I show.

I did a few hundred 9mm on tuesday. The fiddling bit was with primers (the usual suspects). Ran the tray empty and changed to a fresh tray and the next 6 cases came out with no primers...5 minutes of pulling the shell plate, blowing dirt off the primer trough, put it back together and it fed no problems the rest of the session. ***? I don't know. Just is what it is.
On the plus side it's nearly impossible to get a double powder charge.

I started reloading this past winter from scratch- total investment was about $350..since then I've learned and added a few things and I'd say you need $450 to really get what you need. I got a loadmaster kit from Titan Reloading.com for around $217, plus you need a few bits and pieces like universal decapping die, FCD, second primer tray (to speed thigns up), case feeding funnel, better scale, bolts to mount the press to a SOLID bench.

My next press will be a lee turret and i'll use it for rifle where I don't need hundreds of rounds, can do single stage for some things. Won't be much cheaper I suspect by the time its all setup with powder, case trimming (not needed on pistol), etc.

I just sold a used 550B Tuesday for $350 with the Strong Mount, Bullet Tray, Loaded Ammo Bin & Bracket, Roller Handle, extra Primer Tubes, a couple Stands, extra Tool Head, etc. That was a steal with all the add on's with it. I would guess that you could find a used 550B for $300 to $350 for just the Reloader if you looked some.

I have had 3 Dillons so far. My first was a 450, sold it to a friend years ago who is still using it. Replaced it with the 550B that I just sold. Which I replaced with a Like New 2011 Model 550B that has the Grease Zert on the linkage and Lube Ports. It also had all the add on's with it.
During the time I have owned Dillon Equipment I have not had a problem that Dillon did not help me with to my total satisfaction. Customer Service and Parts Support are both big issues if you use your equipment.

Bob

__________________
ICORE MO2908

Of course you should keep your single-stage press. Due to case prep for rifle brass, I still use the single-stage to reload rifle rounds. I started off with a Dillon RL450 many years ago. It was the predecessor to the 550. I upgraded mine to a 550. I bought a used Dillon 650 a few years ago.

From everything I've read, I'd steer clear of the Lee progressives. Dillons are tops and Hornady progressives are very good. If I were in your shoes, and I once was, I'd get a Dillon 550 and never look back. If you can find a good one used, so much the better.

I have used both the Dillon 550 & 650 and the Hornady LNL AP and I would honestly go with the Hornady. It's cheaper off the bat, and I'm still confused why Dillon would build a progressive machine that doesn't auto-index (the 550).

Rollbar, I have a Lee Loadmaster and also a RCBS Rockchucker. I don't recommend the Lee as a first press unless you are mechanically minded and like fiddling around with it. You will crush some brass and mash some primers and spill some powder. If you are just starting out it's a good idea to use a single stage to learn every part of the process.

Are you the same Rollbar on reno4x4.com? I'm in Reno and if you want to check out my setup drop me a p.m.

What caliber(s) are you going to be reloading?

starter progressive?!?!
no such thing son
its like buying a power saw ... fisher price don't make one so you go by quality .. Milwaukee, DeWalt, Porter Cable .. if you want it around for a while.
in the press world ... its Dillon.

where I do say "get a Lee" is where a single stage is called for.

__________________
it just needs more voltage

Why is that? Can you give the reasons you think that's a fact? I can find just as many people that say the same about the Hornady L&L. If you think the Dillons are the best, what makes you think that? I'm interested in all opinions.

Thanks!

Mike

Off topic here we come...

Add press out of price range mentioned by OP, then discuss/argue qualities of said press. Let me get some popcorn...

So far, I can't comment on the press suggestions as I don't believe a progressive press is suitable for a new reloader who has no experience and read only one book on the subject. I would suggest reading The ABCs of Reloading, getting a quality single stage press and learn what each and every reloading step does and why it's done. Then after a couple thousand rounds under your belt, go to a turret or progressive. Starting with the fastest, most complex, most automatic, press will surely lead to frustrations and mistakes, and mistakes when reloading can be catastrophic. It's much easier to learn to drive in a Toyota w/auto trans than a 8 speed Ferrari...

Good point... I totally forgot what the OP was looking for and hijacked the thread. Sorry about that!

Mike

I would vote for saving a bit longer and getting a Dillon 550 if you have your heart set on a progressive. I think another good option, unless you will load extremely high volume, is to get a single stage or a Lee 4-hole turret press kit (kits can be had for a little above $200). Both of these will still be useful is you decide to upgrade to a progressive in a couple of years.

DILLON, its the only way to go.

I found yet another Dillon 450 on eBay that is within' your price range. It's $220.00 plus shipping. That gives you a total of $250.00 in the press and leaves the other $100.00 for the upgrade.
Dillon RL 450 Upgrade Frame Change Kit: Reloading Machine Upgrades & Updates

That keeps the press near the $350.00 limit you originally mentioned. It might go a little over, but not by much.

exactly my thoughts.
your not really saving money on a lee progressive if you ultimately find yourself replacing it with something better later on. the tools are the foundation of any craft. Get em right the first time even if it means scrimping and saving for a while to do it

__________________
it just needs more voltage

+1 on the 550.

Had a Hornady L-N-L. Worst ***. Worst Customer Service. Needed a replacement spring. Broke first day. Asked for 3, got 1, charged for 3. Sold it for 50% of what I paid, got a Dillon.

Twice I needed parts (my fault, totally)=both times parts were there (no charge) within 48 hours. Once the delivery was on a Sat. Needed a primer cup (lost mine during a move)--C/S convinced me that I needed the whole arm (so it was easier/quicker to change)=no charge.

That's strange you had bad customer service. Hornady has sent me several free shellplates when I was having an issue, and has been 100% accommodating of any questions I had for them. Haven't had anything break on the LNL that wasn't my own fault.

I tend to agree that starting out on a true progressive press could be challenging in terms of learning how to hand load from scratch. However, I don't see any problem with starting on a turret press (or a Dillon 550B). You can use it as a single stage press with batch processing until you're comfortable with performing two or more steps on a case at a time.

My experiences with Hornady customer service have been consistently good. When I called last week to ask some questions about the progressive press, I mentioned that I have an older Hornady powder measure without a baffle in the hopper. The tech immediately said "Please let me send you one." Their support on the progressive press also has been excellent.

Posts like this contribute nothing to the conversation other than to aggravate some of us.

While the Dillon 550B is widely used and loved by many, it has some limitations. 4 die stations isn't enough if you want to crimp in a separate step, especially if you want a powder check/cop die.

The Dillon XL650 is an entirely different animal. Fantastic machine AFAICT. Unfortunately, it costs substantially more than a Hornady (especially when adding alternate calibers) and has much slower primer changeover. That said, I wouldn't want anything else if I needed 500+ rounds a month of a single caliber.

Yes I'm on Reno 4x4.

I will be using/needing the press because I shoot iCORE and Steel Plate matches and thought of the savings in the future.

I am mechanically inclined but I don't want to have to fiddle w/the press all the time.

I will reload .38spl and .45acp for now.

Thank you all so much for the information-I will research it and go from there.


Sure love my S&W 586 (first S&W). I shot last Saturday against the bottom feeders and came in third using a revolver



Sample Video (jbsgroup01):
SWFA Steel Shooting Match. - YouTube

SWFA Steel Shooting Match - YouTube

One question that has been bugging me as well, in regards to the bullets.

I see everyone using lead bullets and I was going to use FMJ bullets.

Reason, I was always under the impression (old days I guess) the lead will build up, and harder to clean etc. and I just don't want to mess with it. I don't mind paying a few cents more for FMJ but if not needed then.......

Is this true?

The finest Customer Service and the lifetime "No BS Warranty" .

Need a part? Call them up and they ship it out free of charge. If a non user serviceable part happens to break send in the rig and they refurbish the whole kit and kabootle and it comes back to you like new.

__________________
Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

Rollbar, you might want to steer away from the Lee. The priming system works good for large pistol, but small pistol it can be a pain. When loading 9mm I frequently have to take the shell plate off to unjam something. Straight wall cases are easier but I still get occasional problems. Since you are loading for competition the Lee might cost you time you'd rather spend on something else. A little more money now for a Dillon or other brand might save you some hassle. I like my Lee, but messing with it is a hobby unto itself.

Bullet wise, I primarily shoot lead. Some of my guns lead a little, but I've learned how to clean it out and it's not a real problem. The big issue is does your bullet match the load you want. I had a lot of trouble with commercial "hard cast" bullets leading. A bullet that is too hard for the load will lead. A bullet that is too small for the bore will lead. With a revolver the size of the chamber opening is important. What kind of lube is on the bullet is important. If you can find someone shooting the same gun as you who uses lead maybe they can recommend a good brand of cast lead bullets. When the bullet matches what you are doing with it you should get good results with lead. Now I cast my own so I can control everything and I get good results.

Watching this video is a little overwhelming since I am new to reloading.

I will NEED to reload two different calibers (.38spl/.45acp) so buying the different heads and priming the different calibers will cost some extra money according to the video (time around 16min).

I will be shooting more .38spl right away.

After watching the video maybe two turret presses will be best, one for each caliber I'm thinking so I can leave them set up (what do you think about that scenario).

I use about 350 rounds per match not exceeding 500 (in case we are battling it out etc.

Just in the past two weeks I have spent $200 bucks in ammo for these matches w/entry fee +-

Thanks again for the help,
Jim



Dillon 650 & 1050 Demo.

Choosing the Dillon 1050 or Dillon 650 Progressive Loader - YouTube

Dillon makes excellent machines; however, the cost involved are pretty high. The Hornady L-n-L AP is the equivalent of the Dillon 650, but at a much lower price (for instance, Graf's has it on sale for just under $400, shipping is $5.95 from Graf's, sale ends today), and caliber changeover on the Hornady is fast, simple, and much less expensive than on the Dilon. I have an older Hornady progressive (predates the L-n-L, which was developed from it), and my experience with Hornady customer service has been excellent, never any problems, always at least equal to Dillon in that regard. They also have a lifetime warranty, and are quick to respond.

Do stay away from the Lee progressives, they are usually quite troublesome. While I have a lot of Lee dies and bullet moulds, I won't go near their progressive presses (unless I somehow come to desire a new never-ending project). Generally good ideas, but poor execution.

One other thing - since you are very inexperienced at reloading, I strongly recommend that, if you do go with a progressive, don't try for speed. Go slow, check every step, and be extremely careful. There is a lot of room for error using a progressive, and those kind of errors are the ones that end with a blown-up gun! Watching You-Tube videos is helpful (unless the video is showing incorrect techniques as the right way to do it, and there are quite a few out there). I also recommend you get several different reloading manuals, read all of them, and compare. Better to start slow and become proficient and safe than to run out of the tent at night not knowing there is a cliff next to you! That next step can be a long and dangerous one.

I have had a dillon xl650 since 1996. The case feeder would jam every now and then and I have noticed for a while that they changed the design of the case feed bowl and funnel. So i went on their website and ordered the updated bowl and funnel. Two days later I get a call from Dillon asking why I was ordering practically everything for a case feeder except the motor. I told him that I wanted to update the case feeder to the new design because it was jamming. He said since I was having a problem with the case feeder that if I sent it back to them they would update it, test it out and send it back to me for free! If that is not great customer service I don't know what is.
The press runs flawlessly now. I have to go shoot just so I can make more ammo! I know it is more money than you want to spend right now but it is well worth the investment. Mike

Yes, reloading is indeed rocket science and requires an IQ of 200 min.

C'mon.
I read one book, boought the lee loadmaster and had at it. No first person help, never reloaded a thing in my life. Still have both my eyes and all my fingers and the gun is fine too. A few thousand rounds later (2500+) and i'm still learning, but still in one piece too.

There has to be something between a single stage go in slow and go spend $1000 to get a dillon and all the bells and whistles! Both are more expensive choices than necessary.

I do know a guy at the range that got the 550 as his first foray into reloading and blew up his gun wtih a double load - something that's practically impossible with a loadmaster.

My recommendation would be a lee turret. It's got great reviews, can load anything, can be used like a 550 or single stage. You won't outgrow it as it can be used for other things/calibers/duties in the future. It can load more per hour than a single stage but need not be as confusing as a progressive. It can autoindex or not. And it's cost should come in under the OPs budget.

HAd a Hornady L-N-L Ap. Got a case of Blue envy. Drank the Blue kool aid. Bought a 550. Missed my 5 station auto indexing L-N-L AP. Sold the 550 and bought another Hornady. Happy now. 5 stations let me use a powder cop die if I like. CS and warranty is equal to Dillon according to the times I have used either. Both were simply outstanding. My L-N-L allows for long, trouble free runs of loading. I have less problems with the primer feed for sure. Also have a lot more room around the dies than with the Dillon for my big hands. I love the quick release bushings and the powder measure is lightyears ahead of the 550 I had. Both are great machines. Try them before you buy if you can.

__________________
War Eagle!!!

Despite the fact the conversions are on the pricey side I would also recommend you take a look at CH4D's 444 X Pistol Champ press. Reason is it allows you to run single stage at several different steps, it has a shorter press stroke than the Redding T7 which is a terrific press, but I doubt you want almost 4" of ram travel to reload 38 special or 45acp. Just offering this as a suggestion for something else to consider. I know that it is priced over the $350 price you mentioned, but it does come set up with a set of dies.

A Dillon 550 can be run as a single stage press one case at a time. The Internet is filled with Lee progressive press horror stories. For every Lee owner that never has (or has very few) problems, there are 95 other owners that wish they had bought another brand of press.

Dillon customer service is #1, responsive, correct, life time warranty. Yes a Dillon press will wear out parts. Aluminum does not have a infinite fatigue life like carbon steel. Eventually a repeating load will crack an aluminum part because aluminum work hardens and becomes brittle. I am on my 4th ram pivot / handle bracket for my 1982 Dillon RL 450.

Dillons just work. Read the owner's manual and 98% of the problems are covered. Cleaning the primer arm and lubrication of moving parts are all that's needed -- no tinkering required.

I have a Dillon 450, 550, two RCBS RockChuckers, and a Lee entry level press that is used for seating bullets at the range. The Lee struggles to resize 38 special brass with a carbide sizer die. Lee is a 3-letter word for junk. I've worn out enough Lee equipment to have that opinion. New oats always cost more then old oats from the horse.

__________________
S&WHF 366

WoW-All great info.

Tomorrow after the Revolver Steel Match I am going over one of the members house to look at their Dillon press and some others he has.

I'll keep researching. Lot of things to think about.

I have read that Dillon's set up, comes set for the caliber you want to reload which is nice.

What about scales-$140.00 for an electronic scale

Thanks again for all the help,
Jim

Wow- Reloading Tools 2011 Product Overview from Hornady® - YouTube

Speaking of aggravating statements that add nothing to the conversation...

Another question for you. How much do you shoot of each caliber per month/year.

I agree with the guy above who said no such thing as a starter progressive. One intermediate option would be a Lee Turret Press, which is simple in that it performs one operation per lever pull, so it is a single stage in that regard. It also has a simple manual priming system, which is the Achilles' heel of ALL Lee progressives, and I have owned a Load Master and used a Pro 1000 quite a bit. I now own four Dillons.

If you wanted one press to do it all, get a 550. You still need a single stage press to support the progressive, as others have said, and you should probably teach yourself how to reload on the single stage before you try to perform four operations at once that you are not familiar with, as another forum member said.

Dillon has the best customer service around, you can reach them when you need to, which isn't always true with Lee, and they warranty their machines almost indefinitely, whereas Lee charges you when a $2 plastic arm breaks. I don't intend to Lee bash, though, and I have several of their products - in fact I think everything Lee makes works quite well except their progressives. The turret press will give you about 100-200 rounds an hour with the powder measure and swing priming system, and will cost you about 175, assuming you have a caliper, scale, bullet puller, etc.

Hope this helps. Great member responses, and this is why I like this forum.

-KframeRob

Uh, no.

I was a newbie reloader 4-5 years ago. I ignored all of the advice re: starting with a single stage. I'm glad I did. I went right to a progressive and have been perfectly happy, safe and productive.

To read some posts, one might think reloading is a mix of rocket science and voodoo. In reality, it's quite simple and anyone with a bit of brains and a cautious eye can do it. Just follow published data carefully and go for it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I thnk the dillon is similar to the lee in that the dies are mounted to a plate you change, so once adjusted they stay that way. Changeover on that and shell plate is 3 minutes maybe.
I shoot 9/38 so use the same primers, nothing to change. YOu'll have to change primer feeders/primers. Time depends on the press you choose.
Case feeder - on the lee the 9 and 38 take different ones, changeover is 3 or 4 minutes. No adjustments needed.
Powder of course needs changed, if not type at least load. This takes me another 4 minutes maybe.

To on a loadmaster changeover is 10-15 minutes. I try to load enough of one caliber than I can go a month or more before needing to change again.

What most around here do is spend the winter loading for the summer. I'll do that this winter also. I know for PPC I need 1200 rounds of 9 to compete plus whatever I want to practice with. If I can make IDPA shoots I could potentially do 12 of them at 150 rds per. Then after PPC there is the Invitational (200 more plus practice) and then we shoot steel plates till the end of october. For 38 practice plus 600ish for competition if all I do is the snubbie class at PPC.

At even a low count of 350/hour from my loadmaster those what, 3500 rounds, will take 10 hours spread over a few snowy saturdays. Changeover won't be a concern really.

If you want to do 2 presses, go with the dillon square deal B. each one will come with the dies pre-set at no extra charge. minimal setup and BAM! your up and running. best deal I can think of.

__________________
Defend your family first!

I shot in the Revolver Only Steel Match and placed First. . Had a great day.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1346542946.720126.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1346542958.319531.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1346542968.685592.jpg


Sent from my iPhone 4S

Never thought of it per yr etc. but per match is about 150/250 max 500 depending on how many outs and how many missed etc. and ow many classes I'm in. Also figureiCORE.


Sent from my iPhone 4S

Another question is since I'm in a very dusty place the garage isn't going to work so i was thinking of using one of the spare bedrooms to reload.

Is that a bad idea?

I did think about a small 8x8 corner room in the garage w/a small A/C unit but then cost of that etc.

The house would be easier but I do want to keep the roof on

Thanks for the info today Dave, nice meeting you, and glad you won in the Revolver shoot today.