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11-22-2012, 05:40 PM
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Need help with reading the reloading chart in Lee's Modern Reloading book
So I'm planning to load 158 plated bullets with Unique powder.. unfortunately I don't see the load info in the charts. I think they have it for 158 lead, but I'm guessing plated will be slightly different. I don't see it for 357 or 38.
Am I missing something here?
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11-22-2012, 05:58 PM
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Gorenut - As long as the bullets in question are just plated lead, I don't see an issue. If the overall design is pretty similar, length etc, you should be fine. The plating on these bullets is thin enough that it wouldn't matter. If you want to be super cautious, reduce the charge by 5% and have at it. You're loading Unique. Ain't like it's Bullseye...
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11-22-2012, 06:04 PM
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Ya I decided on Unique because I read its more forgiving, not to be mistaken for getting careless of course.
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11-22-2012, 06:06 PM
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Another thing I was wondering, is there a real reason to choose RN or FN over the other in a revo? I know in semis RN feeds better. I've pretty much decided to go with Berry's plated for starters.
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11-22-2012, 06:47 PM
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Quick plug for cast bullets: Missouri Bullet Co. Bullets work well in all my revolvers. And much cheaper than Berry's. with the right bullet, leading is a non-issue. And if you do get leading, just shoot two or so jacketed bullets through it to clear it.
Now to the load data: use cast data od the same bullet profile and length and you'll be fine. Just remember to start low!
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11-22-2012, 10:00 PM
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Straight from Berry's web site:
"Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads."
You need to look at the charts for jacketed bullets.
I see your dilemma - I just looked and Richard Lee doesn't have a load for Unique and jacketed 158 grain. No worries - Lyman, Speer and Hornady all say 4.7 is a good place to be.
Last edited by blujax01; 11-22-2012 at 10:11 PM.
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11-22-2012, 10:17 PM
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If they're plated lead bullets, load them to lead specs. This is what all the copper plated bullet makers suggest.
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11-22-2012, 10:37 PM
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You guys are awesome. Thanks for the quick and helpful replies. Can't wait for all my supplies to arrive so I can get started.
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11-23-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all357mag
If they're plated lead bullets, load them to lead specs. This is what all the copper plated bullet makers suggest.
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No, not exactly, not all. Read post #6 above
Rainer gives you both versions
Rainier Ballistics, LLC | Load Data
When I used to use Berrys I loaded them to midway FMJ data. In some calibers you can use max load data as they are not going anywhere near 1200 FPS.
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11-23-2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
No, not exactly, not all. Read post #6 above
Rainer gives you both versions
Rainier Ballistics, LLC | Load Data
When I used to use Berrys I loaded them to midway FMJ data. In some calibers you can use max load data as they are not going anywhere near 1200 FPS.
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So I ordered 158 grain Berry's flat point bullets. If I'm initially loading with Lee dippers.. should I just load what it has for lead starting loads or would this be not enough pressure you think? Right now I'm just trying to play it safe and not really looking for hot loads or pushing anything to its limits.
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11-23-2012, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorenut
So I ordered 158 grain Berry's flat point bullets. If I'm initially loading with Lee dippers.. should I just load what it has for lead starting loads or would this be not enough pressure you think? Right now I'm just trying to play it safe and not really looking for hot loads or pushing anything to its limits.
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I used the Lee Dippers when I first started. They are very accurate if you use them correctly. Scoop, do not tap the sides, use a flat edge and level off the top. They are spot on. You can make your own from empty brass or sand down the plastic ones to give you the exact weight you want.
I used any where in the start to max of the FMJ load. You can use the mid to high of the Lead load. It's not critical. Just do not exceed either of the max loads. Generally (I hate that word)plated or FMJ take a bit more powder than lead.
Go Here: The listed Alliant loads are the MAX so take 90% of that as a start. Load a few (10) and shoot those they will be mouse farts, move up slowly.
Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide
The max for a 158 gr lswc (soft lead) in 38 spl is 4.7gr So I would say anything close to that 5.0 grs (but that's me)
For the 357 Mag it is 6.0 grs for the same LSWC bullet
So the plated bullet has more neck tension so it takes a little more to get it moving than the soft lead.
Keep in mind that the Lee Manual is just a compiled list of data from other sources (manuals and powder companies) Lee did not do their own tests. If that is the only manual you have I suggest buying another, Speer, Lyman or both good.
I also would buy some HP 38/Win 231 as it meters better than Unique. You will find lots of 38/357 load data with it.
Unique is sooty at low charges. But it is still a good powder. I use it in 45 Colt and 41 Mag
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Last edited by Rule3; 11-23-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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11-24-2012, 04:58 PM
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Ok, so how about this as an initial load?
For both 38 and 357:
Berry's Copper Plated 158gr
50cc on the Lee Dipper/4.6-4.7gr of Unique
CCI small pistol primer
I know for 38, that's more of a +P load, but I'm fine with that. It'll let me load about the same no matter what brass I have and streamline my process as my first batch. I'm obviously not trying to produce ammo for maximum performance at this point, just decent range ammo.
Please feel free to correct anywhere I might have made an incorrect assumption. It's great that there are so many resources nowadays. Dunno how I would have gotten any help before the internet. It's not like there are too many shooters around here where I live in CA, let alone reloaders to mentor me. Seriously appreciated.
Last edited by Gorenut; 11-24-2012 at 05:09 PM.
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11-24-2012, 07:14 PM
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I would use that for the 38 special, but remember I am not responsible for anything. Just ask my wife.
My only other question is how did you weigh that 50 CC dipper amount? You did weigh it right? You can not go by what the chart says it is supposed to be, as it will vary by a lot! Some powders more than others. Depends on the temp, humidity, lot number altitude etc.
Don't try to " simplify" things and have one powder charge for 38 and the same for 357 mag it doesn't work that way.
If it weighs that by a accurate scale than you are OK for the 38 Special IMO. Not the 357 it is too low. Your start for 357 mag should be 5.4 grs=.90 x 6.0gr or a 10% reduction of the max load.
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11-24-2012, 09:43 PM
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I'd definitely be weighing it all on a scale as well (ordered one with the rest of my equipment). I got the numbers from Lee's charts. I noticed the +p 38 and 357 loads were the same for Unique as far as the dippers are concerned.
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11-24-2012, 10:01 PM
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One of the best ways to get confused reloading ammunition is to use Lee dippers and the Lee Reloading manual. I used the Lee disk powder measure for <2 years until I wore it out, it was the mechanized version of the dippers.
After 35 years of reloading experience, the Lee manual for FREE is still too expensive. The manual came with a $20 Lee press.
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11-25-2012, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorenut
I'd definitely be weighing it all on a scale as well (ordered one with the rest of my equipment). I got the numbers from Lee's charts. I noticed the +p 38 and 357 loads were the same for Unique as far as the dippers are concerned.
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NO, NO, NO. The dippers are very accurate and will drop the same charge if used correctly. BUT they are VOLUME not weight!
Don't even look at the chart. You must weigh the charge. Once you know the charge and if it is correct, then use the dippers if you want. Some powder vary several grains over some are under so you have no idea until you WEIGH on a ACCURATE scale.
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11-26-2012, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
NO, NO, NO. The dippers are very accurate and will drop the same charge if used correctly. BUT they are VOLUME not weight!
Don't even look at the chart. You must weigh the charge. Once you know the charge and if it is correct, then use the dippers if you want. Some powder vary several grains over some are under so you have no idea until you WEIGH on a ACCURATE scale.
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Ok, I'm very glad I brought it up. The book doesn't seem to explain the Lee Dippers' numbers very well on what they mean on the chart in regards to an actual measurement. I see that 357's starting grain is .7 higher than 38+p. I haven't gotten my hands on the Lee Dippers yet, but I was under the preconceived notion that they were measured out amounts for reloading with the chart number being which Lee Dipper size to use for exact loads (if that makes any sense).
Luckily I was going to measure through the scale anyways, but its good to have double confirmation.
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11-26-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorenut
Ok, I'm very glad I brought it up. The book doesn't seem to explain the Lee Dippers' numbers very well on what they mean on the chart in regards to an actual measurement. I see that 357's starting grain is .7 higher than 38+p. I haven't gotten my hands on the Lee Dippers yet, but I was under the preconceived notion that they were measured out amounts for reloading with the chart number being which Lee Dipper size to use for exact loads (if that makes any sense).
Luckily I was going to measure through the scale anyways, but its good to have double confirmation.
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Yes, they were measured and weighed at some point in time.
BUT the weight will vary. If I measure and weigh my dipped amount here it will be different than yours. The chart will give you the "approximate amount" This is all explained by Mr Lee in the manual.
Also, buy another manual. Speer, Lyman are both good ones.
PS: Just for the heck of it I got out my dippers and weighed a .5 cc of Unique. My batch weighs EXACTLY 4.1 grains on a calibrated balance beam scale. Yours may be very different.
Notice it is point 5 (.5 cc) not 50 CC which is a whole lot more.
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Last edited by Rule3; 11-26-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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11-26-2012, 08:42 PM
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My electronic scale came in first.. but I think I need to buy a calibration weight. I read in the review that it came with one.. but apparently not. Better put in an order, can never be too sure.
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11-27-2012, 07:06 AM
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Good idea, Gorenut. Even if the scale came with a calibration check weight, the weight provided is 50 grams which translates to 771.62 grains. Not even in the same ball park as far as verifying the accuracy we need. Midway, Natchez and Optics Planet all sell a set of Lyman Check Weights for under $30. Or if you're adventurous you may find some on EBay from Ohaus or Toledo Scale.
Maybe someone else has a less expensive option?
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11-28-2012, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blujax01
Good idea, Gorenut. Even if the scale came with a calibration check weight, the weight provided is 50 grams which translates to 771.62 grains. Not even in the same ball park as far as verifying the accuracy we need. Midway, Natchez and Optics Planet all sell a set of Lyman Check Weights for under $30. Or if you're adventurous you may find some on EBay from Ohaus or Toledo Scale.
Maybe someone else has a less expensive option?
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My first set of check weights was a set of washers. A friend worked in a hospital lab and weighed them on a balance that was accurate down in the microgram range. I converted the weights to grains and used an electric engraver to mark the weight on the washer. You might be able to have your friendly pharmacist do the weighing on his/her scale.
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