You all have great expertise and I always appreciate the info I find here. I thought these questions might hijack a thread, so I thought I'd ask them separately.

I have been following several threads by newcomers, those considering getting into handloading. I appreciate the complexity and expense of many of the available set ups as well as the attraction to something like the Lee Handloader.

I am sorta pondering this same move and have been saving .38 spl brass for some time, I must have 500 rounds of Lawmand and Blazer brass that's been through my Mod 10-5. I'm attracted to hand loading to save a litte money but mostly to dig a little deeper into shooting - for the same reason, I like driving my car but I also like working on it too.

Several questions from a noob related to this:

1. Do you also have to get a brass cleaner or are there other methods to clean that don't require another machine?
2. Are powder dippers accurate enough for hand loading .38 or is a scale necessary?
3. Does brass - once fired through the same gun - need to bee resized?

I don't need to crank out thousands or even hundreds of rounds. I probably shoot 100 rounds of .38 every other week or so. I'm more curious about the process of hand loading than anything else.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Dan

1. Some reloaders wash the brass with various solutions,but dirty brass works just fine.It may add a little wear to a resizing die.
2. A scale is needed to check what a measure really drops.
3.There are some applications where just neck sizing or no sizing works well,but for the most part just resize.

Regards to # 1, try Citric Acid or Bar Keepers Friend. Put a couple of tablespoons into a glass or plastic container, add a quart of hot water, then the brass, stir. After a few minutes you'll have clean brass. Rinse thoroughly (3X) and dry.
# 2 - You're dealing with something that explodes, you need scales.
# 3 - Yes.

Like said above, a tumbler is not necessary and there are many commercial or home made solutions that can be used. Of course you can always just wipe it down with a rag and use it dirty but I wouldn't want to put dirty brass through my dies.

Powder dippers IMO are not accurate enough using charts but are accurate and repeatable when you weigh the charges and select the correct dipper. You can also adjust the size of the dipper to throw a slightly lower charge if you need to but that also can only be done with a scale. You can buy a Lee scale for very little money that will do what you need.

All brass needs to be resized to put it back to SAAMI specs and to insure proper neck tension to hold the bullet in place. Even when you use rifle brass in the same rifle you need to neck size for proper neck tension.

I know you are trying to get this done with as little cost as possible but I have found over the years you always end up spending more than less that way. Once you get into reloading you will want better tools so you buy twice instead of once, costing you more money in the end. Buy well and buy once and you will save money and enjoy reloading more.

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SWCA #3437

1) brass need not be cleaned, though doing so may help function in some picky guns and it just looks better.
2) Lee makes a very reasonably priced measure .. forgo the dippers and use a scale ... you NEED to know exactly what your putting into that case.
3) brass fired in a bolt action rifle may be neck only sized for that particular rifle. Thats the only exception and it is only a partial exception .... this die does the depriming anyhow, so why fight it.

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it just needs more voltage

If your needs are small in volume and the budget is tight look into the Lee single stage presses. Check out some youtube vids.

For years before I got a tumbler I just used Brasso and a old cotton sock to clean my brass. It was thin enough to get down into the base of the brass to clean out the burnt powder and could be rotated on my hand for a cleaner area if needed.

Cleaned or wiped down brass is easier on dies and will over the years keep the dies from getting pitted with crud that will later damage the brass as it is feed into the dies.
Dies should be taken apart and cleaned every now and then to keep them in new condition if used a lot or if in humid temeratures.
My "Regular" steel .38 spl 3 die set is over 40 years old and still kicking loads out.

Since you are shooting out of a revolver, your rounds (hopefully) are not rolling around in the dirt so a quick wipe down is enough if you don't want to spend money on a tumbler. Half the time, I don't clean my 38/357 cases unless they are really sooty from too light a load.

Yes you can get away with just dippers if you follow the Lee guide which already overestimates the weight for most powders in a dipper, then recommends a mid range load. You usually end up with a charge at the low end of the spectrum. It will go bang and will spit the bullet out of the gun.

To be safe, use fully jacketed or plated bullets to ensure you don't wind up with a stuck jacket in the barrel which might happen with an undercharged hollowpoint bullet. Too low a charge with an undersized hard lead bullet can cause leading in the barrel. It's not difficult to clean out the lead, but it can destroy accuracy in less than 50 shots at the range.

The best thing to do is to buy a scale, even a Lee Safety scale is better than no scale at all (or worse, a $10 electronic scale). If you use it just to check your dipper drops, you will be fine.

You won't regret buying a single stage press, because you can use it for many other functions later on. Banging on those dies with a mallet will get old pretty quick, especially when you start to realize how much money you will be saving when your shots cost $0.14 each rather than $.30-$.50/shot for factory ammo.

If you wind up casting, those shots can get down to $0.04-$0.05/shot.

A big benefit of reloading is that you can tailor your load to shoot anything from "BB gun recoil" to "FBI loads" and pay the same few pennies per shot.

1. Harbor Freight tumbler (look for coupons)
2. Crush walnut media - pet store lizard litter
3. RCBS Rock Chucker





Go for it!

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Professional Trainer

1. Just wipe the fired brass down with a cotton rag, dipped in a bit of rubbing alcohol if they really need cleaning. You will need to invest in a simple primer pocket cleaning tool.

2. Powder dippers and an inexpensive scale are needed at a minimum.

3. Full length resizing is essential when loading for my .38 Special. Even though all the brass was fired in my revolver, I do not know which case was fired from which chamber. To tension and seat the bullet properly you need to resize the case anyway.

Hello Dan-- BRASS NEEDS TO BE CLEAN--It will wear the dies out & makes the bullet go in harder. Anything that vibrates can b made to clean brass. Take some cat litter & put it in a coffee can & add a little liquid car wax & lean it up against your out of balanced grinder.222222222222 A dipper will work fine if u level it out every time with a powder like unique. 3333333333333 The brass has to b resized or the bullet will b too loose. People in the country aint got time to go to town to buy the new fangled stuff. Too much gas & time. All u need is a 1 arm press & a set of dies. I would suggest an rcbs jr. in a garage sale where someone has bit the dust & his spouse b it male or female <in the new rule change>does not have a clue what it is -for $20. JUST something to think about. Happy lead slinging.

1. Your brass needs to be clean of dirt and grit. It can damage your dies and cases both. A simple wipe with cotton cloth will do. I abandoned cleaning primer pockets long ago as it has no effect on reliabililty.

2. Dippers are too subject to variances. I'd invest in a scale to verify charges, even mid-power ones. While I don't use electronic scales, there are suitable ones out there for a reasonable price.

3. Resize the cases. Neck tension has more to do with holding the bullet than crimping.

I started with a Lee Challenger single stage press kit. It comes with the basics needed to get started, except dies. I have used it to reload many, many thousands of rounds.

Lee Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Anniversary Kit

I would also suggest a dial caliper and loading trays, neither of which are very expensive.

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"Shall not be infringed"

When I first started reloading I could not afford a tumbler so I got a shortened wooden dowel and some 0000 steel wool. After about twenty minutes I had twenty or thirty done and then wiped them down on a cloth and they looked nice and dirt was gone.
As far as a scale the Lee Safety scale is cheap but a bit tricky, I had one and you can find better scales used. Even a cheap digital is better than nothing and better than just trying to guess the measure of your charge.
I have Lyman 310 that I reload with now because I find its easier than trying to get into the basement and sit down at the bench. It neck sizes the cases but before I stopped using my bench press I took and loaded weighed and identical bullets in identical nickel cases with the same loads and the loads from the 310 were a bit more accurate. The only trouble with neck sizing cases is that since you are neck sizing your brass, cases fired from another gun might not fit. The 310 is a nice tool and they are all over ebay. I payed $30 or so for this one with the .38 Special dies with it.

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Vaya con Dios

I'm not a fan of the Breach Lock system because to take advantage of it you have to buy a breach plug for every die. that runs into money which I feel is an unnecessary cost especially when on a budget. If you lock down the lock nut your adjustment is there so what's the big deal of turning the die into the press, 10 seconds or so...

You can't go wrong with the Lee Classic Cast Press. (@$94)

Since you're loading only handgun rounds there's nothing wrong with a Lee Classic Turret Press either. (@$95)
With that press you can safely load between 180 to 200 handgun rounds on an hour.

If you do decide to go with a turret press Kempf's Gunshop has a kit for $209.95. Add the Pro Auto Disk upgrade for $12.95 at the bottom of the page and add a scale and you will be very well set up. The kit includes a set of 4 Lee dies, caliber of your choice.

Like I said above, buy good equipment the first time and save money in the long run.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Where the Hell is Lonestar? Post it up and you may find someone in your area that is on this forum. Maybe you could drop by and observe the reloading process and how the equipment works. I'm in Southern California and would help anyone in my area to get started and I'm sure there are guys near you. Give it a try. Rod

I reloaded for ten years before I moved away from exclusively using dippers (no scale). This limited me to conservative loads, but was no problem.

I reloaded for fifteen years before I cleaned my first piece of brass. No ill effects on my guns, my dies or my accuracy.

You need to re-size cases every time they're fired.

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Now go make God proud...

When I started, I took some advice I found here and purchased a Factory Reconditioned Lyman Orange Crusher for $75.00 I think. Built like a tank and has worked out very well for me.
I also stepped up and got carbide dies.

I turn out 50 at a time and I do it in stages over a couple of nights. My kids help too!

Good luck

Gents...thanks to everyone for their advice and observations. The collective wisdom on this forum is amazing. I'll look around ebay, continue to look at the kits, but definitely continue to look through this forum!

Dan

I actually put the spent brass in a pillowcase once i have about 1000 rounds and hang them into the washing machine with some light soap. Im sure a water hose and 5 gallon bucket would suffice with a bit of agitation.First i deprime the rounds. I have seen some say they dont clean the primer pocket and only clean the brass every 5 reloads or so but golly i just love to see them shine.I am reloading .38 specials with a lee handloader $25. I spent about $25 on an electronic scale. At first i weighed every load but the dipper is almost spot on. The trick is to dip it and not to scoop it. Scooping can compact the powder. $25 on micrometer. 500 cast bullets 158gr cost 30$ shipped and an 8lb bag of win231 and 2,000 primers cost $217 shipped. I am pretty content doing it by hand and i am horrified reading the stories of rounds being double powdered and primers getting sideways in a press. I had bought a lee pro 1000 but returned it without using it. Im sure it can be a good product . I am on a family budget and can not justify a more costly press. Id rather be safe than sorry and 190$ for the pro 1000 well it might just end up and expensive boat anchor.
Gl and have fun

I just got a Horizon Pro-50A electronic scale on Amazon for $45.99 shipped. It's accurate down to .02 grains and I'm actually quite impressed with how good it works. Of course, always back up everything you do with a good beam scale, but for convenience and good accuracy this scale is hard to beat. I'm actually surprised not more folks in the reloading community know about this little scale. For the money I've not found any other digital scale that comes even close; and I've scoured many reloading forums and read hundreds of posts and articles to research which scale to get. As far as I'm concerned this is a supreme deal for the money. Got it today, calibrated it, tared it. Everything appears to work flawlessly.

I'm still using dippers and they are fine if you know the limitations. Striking the excess off the top of the dipper with a card gives better consistency. I check a lot of charges with the balance to find out the Min, Avg and Max I get with a particular powder out of a dipper. The slide rule that is included with Lee dippers is ONLY a guide to get you in the ball park as to which scoop throws how much. If I get to where the dipper's max charge is close to max listed load, I throw the powder from a smaller scoop on the scale and add powder until it balances. I will get an adjustable measure one day but in the meantime I can put the money to better use elsewhere, like into bullets, primers and food.

OK, so Im a newbee just getting setup, but I have learned a few things reading, and working on getting all my gear.

Moneys tight for me, and Im sure a lot of others here also. Kids, a house, daily bills... moneys tight. But Ive found some value out there. Frankly if you have any space at all, I would spring for a press. A hand loader would be nice for once in a wile... but as my only choice... Id rather have a nice basic press. they are not that pricy, stone simple, and pretty much last forever. As was said... they come up for sale used for chump change. I was left a old Lyman truline Jr form my dad when he passed. So I have zero cost in that, but ive seen many well under 100 bucks. For loading lower round numbers once in a wile... Just grab a beam scale. They are not that pricy, and they just work. may be slower then dig scales... but your not throwing hundreds of loads a day.. and no batterys to go dead... it can sit on a shelf as is for years, and will still work. Some loading blocks, or if your handy... just make them. a few min with a saw and a drill and your done.. cheap, and easy.. a small funnel to load the cases... and bam.. your done. No reason you can toss this together for less then $150 bucks. Put up a stock of primers when you can find them, and research loads and find a powder to work with, and your set. At your use a pound of powder will last a LONG time!! realy no reason NOT to at least neck resize.. as was said normaly the depriming die sizes them.

So advice from a poor newbee thats walking the same road as you.. A bench mounted press will prove to be much more usefull if you have a space. [and if not, search loading setups on Workmate style folding benches. ] If you do advance to much more rounds... the basic single stage press is still handy for doing odd ball loads.

When I first started reloading I did not have a scale. I reloaded only for one caliber. Used an rcbs little dandy powder measure and the chart that came with it. My loads were chosen with the help of a reloading mentor. Only had one can of powder so things were simple, effective and cheap.

30 years later i still see the wisdom of the little dandy, one can of powder and a loading block.

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The American dream is alive

You are after my own heart. Second hand press, beam scale and drilled loading blocks. I don't look to spend any more than I have to to keep me shooting or else I won't be shooting. Cheap is gud.

Ya, same here. With a house, and kids, bills, and todays work market.. Money is not hanging around waiting to get spent! You Id love to drop big cash on a top line setup. But its not happaing. So we work with what we have. Would I make better ammo on 5K worth of gear? Nope. Might be a little faster... but its not going to make me a better reloader. Not that there is a problem with the nice stuff. Not at all, and I hope maybe down the road, I find some nice 40 year old top line press for a nice price.

About any used Single Stage press should work.
If buying new I would get the Lee Cast Iron Classic.
Make sure you sizing die is Carbide in the set. Get the 4 die set so you crimp as a 4th step.

No problem with Lead Bullets. I load and shoot them in Thousands a year quantitys. I recommend a 158 Round Nose for practice.
missouribullets.com


For powder I would use Unique. It has been working for over 100 years, and has no surprises. No rapid pressure spikes for small increases in powder, etc.

A dipper will work for you. I would select one that will measure approximately 4.2 grains of Unique when struck off with the file card. I would verify this dipper measurement with a set of scales. The 4.2 grains of Unique load should work fine with a 158 grain lead bullet.

Lots of younger reloaders are uncomfortable using a dipper. Us older reloaders who started 40+ years ago probably started with dippers. My first reloading was done on a Lee Loader using dippers in 38 Special.
Get a Single Stage Press, the dippers will work with midrange loads just fine.

As was said above wipe the fired cases off with a little solvent on a rag. Keep it out of the inside of the cases.

You can keep adding equipment as you go. Such as Beam Scales, and an Automatic Powder Measure. Hand Priming Tool, etc.

Be safe and enjoy a new hobby.

Bob

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