I am interested in developing load data for SD wadcutters in 38 spl and 44 spl. I am starting with 3 different 148gr styles in 38 and a 208gr in 44. I am crimping at the top lube groove on each. Seating depth turns out to be very close to 140gr TCs and 150gr RNFPs in 38 and 200gr RNFPs in 44. In this case i am measuring from the bottom of the bullet to the crimp goove, trying to keep the volume of the case the same. I am starting at the light end loads for those bullets using Bullseye, WIN 231 and Unique. Comments from those with experience would be great.

Differences in cast bullet seating or 'shank' depth can get ya into trouble real quick with what's called 'load density'. Wise of you to recognize the dangers.

My best advice would be to find out which mold the bullets were made from and use the mold manufacturers data. The Lyman Cast Bullet handbook has data for Lyman molds , as does the Lee book.

I like the LoadbooksUSA single caliber manual as they have Lyman , Lee Redding/Saeco and RCBS cast bullet/mold data as well as Speer and Hornady swaged lead bullets.

Case volume would be more appropriate I believe when using bullets of similar profile and bearing surface. When using bullets with a great difference in both profile and bearing surface, I would tend to be more confident with specific load data.

The challenge here is developing loads for a bullet that is not seated as originally intended. By crimping at the lube groove I am increasing the available case volume. It is a configuration not found in the manuals. This is a cartridge that is regularly discussed but the load data information is sketchy especially in 44spl. As a SD load velocities faster than target loads are desirable.

You are going to turn the wadcutters around with the base out?

There is probably a 200 fps spread in barrel lengths here from a 2 inch to a 6 inch. Maybe more.

You are not going to push those lead wadcutters fast in my estimation. They are going to shed lead and with a likely decrease in accuracy too.

The old FBI load was 158 L-SWC-HP in lead at 850 fps . I think the Buffalo Bore one is 1000 fps or something in that range.

This is for a steel framed gun right? I am not sure that an alloy gun would hold up well.

Sorry I cant provide any load info though.

I would recomend staying in the 38 Spc range. I wouldnt get up in +p range but that is just me. I would also carefully check the primers after firing too. With those fast powders like 231 it wont take much to get some cratered primers.

If you are loading solid DEWC's or BBWC's you can load these warm using load data from Lyman.

If you are trying to use HBWC's in the conventional way with the hollow base to the rear the base will expand tightly if the pressure goes much beyond low target load data and either the skirt will tear and obstruct the bore or the bullet will blow out the center leaving a tube of lead obstruction in the bore.

If you are trying to load the HBWC's with the hollow forward you will likely have difficultly stabilizing them. The bullet diameter is generally minimal, relying on the expansion of the skirt to grab the rifling and seal the bore. Many years ago I tried loading some HBWC's backwards for use in a 2" Detective Special and they keyholed and tumbled terribly even at 10 to 15 yds. Never could get them stabilized to make a useful load. Some people claimed success by putting a gas check over the front nose of the bullet and then loading backwards but it was too much trouble since I didn't cast and couldn't see buying a box of gas checks just to make them work. IMO wad cutters make for a poor self defense bullet and will likely be not better than any solid RN or SWC despite what you may imagine the flat nose to do. If they where any good they would have been loaded as defense ammo for police by the major companies years ago. Not that they won't kill someone, just not significantly better than the typical RNL. If you want to develop a good defense load get some JHP's by Speer, Hornady, Sierra or Nosler and work with them.

You didn't tell us what type of WC bullet you're loading. I'm guessing it's a DEWC because it has a crimp groove because HBWC usually don't. (I said usually but not always) DEWC should be crimped in the crimp groove and the HBWC bullets should be seated flush with the case mouth.. Of course there are some HBWC bullets that do have crimp grooves and you can crimp in those grooves if you wish. Doing so does not drastically change the case volume so you can safely use the load data in your manual and if you are worried about low velocity use the Max charge in the manual.

The pictures below are for the new reloaders of for those who don't reload so they can see what I'm talking about.

HBWC bullet no crimp groove


HBWC bullet w/crimp grooves


DEWC bullet

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You are spot on with your seating depth by comparing the bullet shank depth.

I used to swap bullets (lyman 358477/hg#50) & use the same powder charge. The crimp groove on the 358477 & the 1st lube groove on the hg#50 (wc) have the same bullet shank/seating depth. The bullets weighted the same, seated to the same depth, had excellent accuracy with the same loads, had the same poa.

The 44spl is an animal unto itself, there’s not a lot of data out there. I’ve shot 1000’s of wc & hbwc’s in the 44spl. I used a lyman 429348 wc for years & finely sold it & bought a Mihec 220g hbwc mold for the 44spl/mag. I always used the data for the light 200g target loads for the 45acp when I loaded/tested any wc/hbwc loads for the 44spl.
Any of these starting loads will work
Bullseye= 3.6g
231=4.0g
Unique=4.2g
If I was a gambling man I would bet that you’ll end up with the magic #5=5g of any 1 of those powders with that 204wc seated in the 1st lube groove. Just for the heck of it you should ask how many people use 5g of bullseye, unique or 231 for their pet 45acp load.

A link to a bunch of different 44spl loads, history & uses over the decades.

Index of /44_Special_Articles

The 38wc/hbwc you should have no trouble finding data for.

Some 38spl sd bullets that I make/use/shoot. A lead hbwc, a jacketed hbwc & a segmented jacketed hp that needs tested.



Some 44spl sd bullets that I make/use/shoot. A lead hbwc, a jacketed hbwc & a segmented jacketed hp that needs tested.

I know it's been debated before , but I would never use a handloaded round , especially something with the hollow base turned out front or any other homemade 'gadget' round. Given fevered pitch of todays anti-gun , anti-lethal self-defense political climate and public emotion. You would be crucified on 4 cable network news shows till you know where freezes over.

Use what the cops use. Another reason I use Glasers. The name "Safety Slug" sounds a lot better than "Black Talon" or "Hydra-Shok"

These are the 3 wadcutters in 38 spl and the 208gr 44spl I am working with. Also pictured is a loaded 44spl cartridge and a 200gr RNFP with a similar loading depth to the crimp groove. The seating depths of each are different I did not yet try the HBs.
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I said this to friends of mine just a couple of days ago.

They wanted to know what SD handload I used and I said "None."

I use the factory loads.