Your Advice About .44 Special Brass

[doc540]

I have an adequate supply of .44 bullets and .44 Mag brass for silhouette match practice.

But I have about 300 pieces of used .44 Special brass.

Is it getting rare enough and expensive enough to stash away and only shoot the .44 Mag brass?

Or should I just work up some .44 Special loads and start banging away?

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Not rare..........Lots still being made. Shoot it up.

[OldDominion]

Originally Posted by doc540

I have an adequate supply of .44 bullets and .44 Mag brass for silhouette match practice.

But I have about 300 pieces of used .44 Special brass.

Is it getting rare enough and expensive enough to stash away and only shoot the .44 Mag brass?

Or should I just work up some .44 Special loads and start banging away?

I just got 500 more from Starline. If you don't load them to near .44Mag levels they will last a looooong time. OD.

[Rule3]

Depends if you are shooting a 44 Mag revolver or 44 Special. I would use the Mag brass only to avoid carbon rings to have to clean out. The only thing about either is that there is none to find just lying around so usually have to buy it new.

But to answer your question, just checked Midway and they have Starline in stock.

[doc540]

Originally Posted by Rule3

Depends if you are shooting a 44 Mag revolver or 44 Special. I would use the Mag brass only to avoid carbon rings to have to clean out. The only thing about either is that there is none to find just lying around so usually have to buy it new.

But to answer your question, just checked Midway and they have Starline in stock.

(slaps forehead)

Exactly! That's why I'm not shooting much .38 Special in my 686.

Carbon rings are a pain in the kazoo.

What IS the secret to cleaning out carbon rings, anyway?

Think I'll just load the .44 Mag brass.

Thanks!

[GBertolet]

I use 44 spl brass in my 29 all the time, with no trouble concerning carbon buildup. Maybe I'm just lucky. I just use a stiff brass brush, dipped in Hoppes #9, making a couple of passes through each chamber, after every time I use it, which prevents any buildup. I prefer the specials for very light charges of dense powders, such as Bullseye, as there is less airspace in the cases. Also, Merry Christmas everyone!

[Titegroups]

As long as you have 44mag brass you already have 44spl brass, just needs trimmed to size.

[tinkerunique]

I'd use the Spl brass for target shooting. The Magnum will handle the Magnum and Special rounds. The Special loads will be gentler to shoot. If you do much target shooting, the Special is less $$ to reload and/or buy.

[tappedandtagged]

Originally Posted by doc540

(slaps forehead)

Exactly! That's why I'm not shooting much .38 Special in my 686.

Carbon rings are a pain in the kazoo.

What IS the secret to cleaning out carbon rings, anyway?

Think I'll just load the .44 Mag brass.

Thanks!

My dad gave me an old Taurus that had been shot who knows how many times with 38's (pawn shop bought used). The carbon ring in it was pretty bad. I actually thought I was loading my stuff too hot (only mid level loads) because I was having sticky extration. Someone on here clued me in. I took a 357 case, flared it out to where it would just barely fit in my cylinders and pushed them in and out of each cylinder. I had quite a pile of carbon and crud on my desk when I finished.

The sticky extraction went away. I never went any hotter since the accuracy was good and the velocity was matching factory.

Oh, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by doc540

(slaps forehead)

Exactly! That's why I'm not shooting much .38 Special in my 686.

Carbon rings are a pain in the kazoo.

What IS the secret to cleaning out carbon rings, anyway?

Think I'll just load the .44 Mag brass.

Thanks!

Well I was gonna share the "secret" but tapped and tagged beat me to it

I think I learnt it from Skip!

Over flare a 44 mag/or 357 Mag so it just fits the cylinder. Tap it in with a small hammer or piece of wood. It scrapes out the cylinder. Then finish with a oversized bore brush and solvent.

Don't tell any one or it will not be secret any more.

[handgunner356]

Brownells and I'm sure others offer both 38 and 44 chamber brushes that are larger and longer than regular bore brushes. They make short work of carbon rings, just don't make the mistake of pushing them down your barrel they don't want to come back out(or so I'm told).

[DWalt]

You can load .44 Special brass up to very respectable levels of hotness if you want to. Elmer Keith (and others) did a lot of that before the .44 Magnum existed. Personally, I have always used relatively mild .44 Special loads exclusively in my two .44 Mag revolvers (one Model 29, one Ruger Super Blackhawk) and a Model 94 Winchester. I just don't like recoil and muzzle blast all that much.

[doc540]

Win231 doesn't show a .44 Special load on their website.
Hornady manual says 6.2 max of Win231 and 6.5 max with Unique for 240gn SWC.

Guess I can work up something using Unique.

[DWalt]

At one time, I loaded 6 grains of 231 behind a 240 grain cast SWC in .44 Spl cases, and it's a light load. I used it extensively for CAS.

[doc540]

Originally Posted by DWalt

At one time, I loaded 6 grains of 231 behind a 240 grain cast SWC in .44 Spl cases, and it's a light load. I used it extensively for CAS.

Noob question:
Why would Hornady say it's "max" if it's really a light load?

I'm not doubting you, just trying to understand why they would rate it max.

Is it a lawyer load?

thnx

[DWalt]

It could well be a max load for a very early .44 Special revolver before modern heat treating was used. The first .44 Specials were S&W triple locks dating from 1908, and those were not heat treated. That didn't begin until the early 1920s. There may also have been some .44 Specials of doubtful metallurgy and design made by other manufacturers. Used in a modern .44 Magnum (or any newer .44) 6 grains of 231 is a very light load. The handbook publisher would have no idea of what revolver age or type the loads would have been used in, so the loads published would represent an abundance of caution to be in conformance to SAAMI peak pressure limits for the cartridge (which is about 18,000 psi). Another issue is that early .44 Spl cases were of the balloon head type which was not capable of containing high pressures. And, believe it or not, there are a lot of those ancient cases still in circulation.

As I said, Elmer Keith and friends loaded .44 Specials to near-.44 Magnum levels and managed to blow up a few SAAs in the course of their experiments. That's what led to the .44 Magnum and revolvers built to take such pressures.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by doc540

Win231 doesn't show a .44 Special load on their website.
Hornady manual says 6.2 max of Win231 and 6.5 max with Unique for 240gn SWC.

Guess I can work up something using Unique.

Type in HP38 and there are lots of loads, same powder. It's odd they do not have W 231 (only one load)



44 S&W Special
Cartridge Load Data Starting Loads
Maximum Loads
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure 165 GR. CAST LRNFP HP-38 .430" 1.365" 4.9 893 8,200 CUP 6.0 1040 12,000 CUP 185 GR. CAST LRNFP HP-38 .430" 1.400" 4.4 810 8,000 CUP 5.6 953 12,500 CUP 200 GR. CAST LRNFP HP-38 .430" 1.450" 4.5 743 8,300 CUP 5.6 918 12,500 CUP 200 GR. NOS JHP HP-38 .429" 1.460" 5.5 806 10,100 CUP 6.0 898 13,100 CUP 220 GR. BERB FP HP-38 .430" 1.460" 4.8 695 8,200 CUP 5.8 845 13,000 CUP 240 GR. CAST LSWC HP-38 .430" 1.450" 4.2 717 8,400 CUP 5.2 858 13,200 CUP

[DWalt]

While CUP pressure measurement is still "Legal" under SAAMI standards, virtually no one uses it as the whole concept of copper crushers to measure pressure is so imprecise. Virtually all manufacturers have switched to piezoelectric gauges for chamber pressure measurements over the past 40 years. Just as a rough rule of thumb, peak pressures in PSI are about 20-30% greater than the CUP measurement. In essence, CUP is currently obsolete as a pressure measurement unit.

[forestswin]

Originally Posted by doc540

Noob question:
Why would Hornady say it's "max" if it's really a light load?

I'm not doubting you, just trying to understand why they would rate it max.

Is it a lawyer load?

thnx

Hornady loads are only for their bullets and their lead bullets are swaged not cast. DWalt's load was for cast.

[doc540]

Originally Posted by forestswin

Hornady loads are only for their bullets and their lead bullets are swaged not cast. DWalt's load was for cast.

Yes, that's right, thanks.

So cast bullets (Brinell 12) can be loaded a little hotter than the Hornady swaged, am I understanding that right?

[forestswin]

Originally Posted by doc540

Yes, that's right, thanks.

So cast bullets (Brinell 12) can be loaded a little hotter than the Hornady swaged, am I understanding that right?

Doc, I just know the Hornady loads are great for their swaged bullets and I'm still looking for a good cast recipe.

I'm out of cast bullets - gonna order some today from Penn Bullets.

Hoping to see you and the forum come up with a good one for the 686 while I'm waiting for mine to come in.

[mkk41]

I too save my magnum brass for magnum power level loads and use specials for lower power stuff. Lighter charges are more consistant in the shorter case.

Trimming adds to the possibility of confusion.

I do know of a few ranges that do not allow MAGNUM headstamped rounds , not matter how far back it's been trimmed or how light it's been loaded.

You can load and shoot Casull-level loads in .45 Colt brass or Elmer Keith-level loads in .44 Special brass and that's OK. Yet powder-puff loads in any case headstamped MAGNUM is forbidden.

Which is why I bought 1000rds of that special run of .41 Special brass.

[venomballistics]

Im my world, Ive determined that there was no 44 special load that could not be trumped in some way by its counterpart in a magnum.
but having a fair bucket of the stuff to play with, I drilled out the primer flash holes in all the special cases so as to use them for indoor wax loads. If these manage to migrate into a batch of magnums the length difference assures that they'll not make it into a box.

[GBertolet]

Maximum load data for swaged bullets, such listed in the Hornady and Speer manuals are not necessiarily based on maximum chamber pressures, rather on what will provide good accuracy without leading, considering the limitations of the soft lead in their respective bullets. One additional note however, maximum data for the 38 cal HBWC is real, as the bullet heads can blow off, possibly leaving the sides of the bullet still stuck in the bore. An unsuspecting shooter can fire another round, and we all know what could happen then!

[mikld]

Originally Posted by GBertolet

I use 44 spl brass in my 29 all the time, with no trouble concerning carbon buildup. Maybe I'm just lucky. I just use a stiff brass brush, dipped in Hoppes #9, making a couple of passes through each chamber, after every time I use it, which prevents any buildup. I prefer the specials for very light charges of dense powders, such as Bullseye, as there is less airspace in the cases. Also, Merry Christmas everyone!

Me too! If I'm using a relatively "dirty" powder, I'll just remove the cylinder and soak it in mineral spirits/Marvel's Mystery Oil/Kroil. Crud ring comes right out with a patch...

[bloo]

don't buy your brass from Midway. Get it right from the Starline web site with free shipping. To remove carbon rings us a chamber brush. Just a little larger dia and longer than a bore brush.

Ted

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by bloo

don't buy your brass from Midway. Get it right from the Starline web site with free shipping. To remove carbon rings us a chamber brush. Just a little larger dia and longer than a bore brush.

Ted

I would agree,
If you do not need any other shooting supplies.

Providing Starline has it in stock (which they don't) and you want a minimum of 500.

[TAROMAN]

When I buy brass, its always from Chestnut Ridge Supply. They are big Starline dealer with good prices and $7.00 shipping, regardless of quantity ordered.

[doc540]

don't have my receipt handy, but I got it with free shipping

already resized 1K rounds on a Rock Chucker