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Old 01-05-2013, 06:38 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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Default How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?

Using W231, how fast can I push a 148 gr. Wadcutter (Hornady) before I have to worry about leading in the barrel? My reloading manual shows a charge of 3.5 gr. of W231 at 800 GPS. This is for .38 Special.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:39 PM
Moonman Moonman is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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A number of things can affect leading.
1) Cylinder Bore Sizes
2) Barrel Groove Size
3) Bullet Speed
4) Bullet Composition ( Hornady's 148 grain WC is
a HOLLOW BASED WC) and cannot be pushed too fast
as it just might blow it's skirt off, and leave it in the barrel,
NOT GOOD with the bullet following it. The Hornady bullet
is SWEGGED Lead (Soft), not cast.
It is probably .358 in diameter as the .357 diameters were discontinued.
5) Barrel/Cylinder alignment.
6) Roughness of the FORCING CONE.

You need to check the above and start LOAD testing with YOUR FIREARM.

USE A RECOMMENDED STARTING LOAD AND GO UP.

You'll need a CHRONOGRAPH for accurate FPS info.

Your firearms Barrel/Cylinder Gap will effect velocity also.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:55 PM
Steve in Vermont Steve in Vermont is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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According to the Hornady manual you're pushing that bullet to the max. I load that bullet and powder all the time using around 3.0 gr. Very accurate and no leading. Remember, that bullet is designed for target shooting so why push it? You won't gain any more accuracy and risk blowing the skirt off.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:56 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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Thanks, guys.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:02 PM
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Alk8944 Alk8944 is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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Velocity/pressure has little to do with whether a load causes Lead fouling or not, contrary to popular lore. What is important is bullet fit and proper lubrication. With commercial bullets, regardless of manufacturer, you will usually get bullets too hard, undersized often, and decorated with a hard wax product that does very little if any lubricating. It does look pretty and stays on the bullets during shipping though, which is what it is intended to do.

If you are buying swaged Speer, Hornady or Remington HBWC bullets you better resign yourself to the fact that you will get leading. If you but your bullets from a caster that allows you to specify hardness, diameter and lubricant type you will be fine. You should be able to drive a 15 Brinnell bullet which is .002 over groove diameter and lubed with proper lubricants to as much as 1400 FPS without excessive leading. This is assuming flat-based bullets. Do not try to push a HBWC faster than 800-850 FPS, leading has nothing to do with it. Since you did not specify hollow-base or flat-base wadcutters I have tried to address both situations.

I speak from over 50 years experience and many hundred-thousand cast bullets shot. I use Saeco lube formula, bullets of anywhere from 8-18 Brinnell or so, depending on application, in a multitude if handguns and rifles. I push .357 Magnum with loads that generate 1500+ FPS from an 8 3/8" revolver with both plain based and gas checked bullets and rarely see enough leading to be concerned with.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:09 AM
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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Default 3.5 231

Howdy,
My load in my 52-2 is 3.5 231 and 148 grain Remington HBWC.
The bump up from 3.1 to 3.5 cut a already good group size in half.
Some times a person has to look around a little.
I don't know FPS but it will lead up a little however it will still be shooting good at 150-200 round mark. A pass or two with a brush wrapped in a
Chore Boy pot scrubber knocks it right out.
Good luck
Mike
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:59 AM
Forrest r Forrest r is offline
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Reading the leading will help you understand where you can go with your tests.

Leading @ the beginning (forcing cone end) of the bbl indicates a bullet size/fit problem.

Leading at the end (muzzle end) of the bbl indicates a lube problem.

The faster you drive the bullets the more the different problems show up.

Lead bhn falure is when you don' have any problems with fit/lube as you work your loads up & all of a sudden you have massive leading in the bbl.

Your not really using the best bullets (soft swaged lead) for speed. They also aren't lubed for speed but that can easily be fixed with any tumble lube.

Let us know how your tests came out & what you did.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:18 AM
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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Forrest R, thanks for the information. I just done cleaning my SP101, last night and it had a bunch of lead at the forcing cone. I had an old box of 158 gr LRN, that I figured I'd try out. Had build up after only 50 rounds and they had horrible accuracy. Guess I need to pull one of the remaining ones I threw in my scrap lead bucket to measure the sizing. I wasn't shooting too hot either, only 4.0grs of W231.

Anyone point in the right direction to find some Chore Boy?
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:43 AM
Moonman Moonman is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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I found Chore Boy Pads at a Grocery store.

MAKE SURE IT'S 100% COPPER, NOT PLATED OR COATED.

You can look for BRONZE WOOL at a hardware store or big box store too.

DO NOT USE STEEL WOOL!

You could also purchase a LEWIS LEAD REMOVER TOOL.

Available at MISSOURI BULLET COMPANY, BROWNELL'S, MAYBE MIDWAY USA.
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Last edited by Moonman; 01-06-2013 at 09:51 AM. Reason: info
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  #10  
Old 01-06-2013, 01:15 PM
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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Don't risk the higher pressure ripping the hollow base skirt off the bullet. These aren't bullets meant for high pressure. No hollow base bullet is meant for high pressure. The design is only meant to be accurate for target shooting and target shooting is usually done best at slower speeds.
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  #11  
Old 01-06-2013, 01:30 PM
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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Lots of good advice here. As maximum said, HBWCs are not intended for high velocity/pressure. The softness and hollow base are intended to make sure it seals throats/cones/bores with a variety of dimensions.

Start low & work up. Slug your chamber throats and forcing cone
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:38 PM
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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As mentioned above............
ALL 148 LHBwc bullets loaded with the skirt to the rear should be kept at 800-850fps maximum for safty reasond ,in what ever length barrel you shoot.
The 148HBwc's are ment for target use and the "Wildcat" SD, HP, SD loads are ment for very close range work ,if used.

BBwc are better for 850fps plus velositys since some powders used by reloaders can have a +/- 50fps swing . Not all powders are perfect with 10-15fps difference in their results,due to guns and barrel lengths.

I have lost 177fps in target loads going from a 6" barrel down to a 1 7/8" snub nose,with reloads.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:06 PM
rsrocket1 rsrocket1 is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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I found Chore Boy at both Ace and Walgreen at about $3 for 2 pads which should last for many years. Bronze wool is also at many Ace stores. Get the coarser stuff, not the fine stuff. You want to wrap a couple of strands around a bore mop, not a bore brush. Make sure the bore mop starts out with a good fit. After the strands are wrapped, it should be a very snug fit.

A few in and out scrubs with this will get all the lead out in less than a minute. Do this outdoors because as you pull the mop out, you will see lots of silvery dust come out which is lead dust and you don't want to breath that or let it settle indoors.

The Chore Boy/Bronze wool strands are actually scraping the lead off the barrel without harming the insides. That's why you want to use copper/bronze and not steel.

If you want to keep the mop white, just clean the barrel with Hoppes #9 first. The mops are only $2-$3 so I don't bother.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:22 PM
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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you can push it up to about 950 - 1000 but leading is the least of your worries.
WC's tend to tumble much above this velocity rendering them useless as anything other than a very short range gut buster load
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:47 PM
Moonman Moonman is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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venomballistics,

He was loading Hornady 148 grain Hollow Based W.C. (sweged).
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:16 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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Thanks again. I KNOW that the HBWC (swaged) are not the best bullet for pushing fast, that's why I was asking how hard I could push them.....
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:04 AM
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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If you are thinking of using them for SD use...........
most cases call for two shots.

What if the 1st bullet looses its skirt in the barrel??
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:02 AM
Moonman Moonman is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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Nevada Ed,

If the first bullet looses its skirt in the barrel, (skirt pieces stuck in the riflings),

second bullet will cause pressure to increase, along with 4th, 5th, 6th.

Leading could continue to increase until a bullet stopped in

the barrel with a possible bulged barrel as a result.

A photo was on the forum the other day of a pistol and a rifle

barrel with MANY bullets stacked up one upon another inside the barrels.

We have such a pistol barrel at my club that we use for

training purposes, it's been cut-away to show that about 10 bullets

were stacked up inside the revolver barrel (a tunnel of lead).

Shooting, and even reloading and shooting, still not noticing the

bullets were NOT exiting the barrel.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:47 AM
all357mag all357mag is offline
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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You're using target bullets. Stick with target loads. In spite of what some guys think, speed directly affects leading. For paper punching stick with minimum loads, you'll find these the most accurate.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:17 PM
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How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading? How hard can I push a 148gr. WC before leading?  
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Default Anybody?

Just a quick question.
Has anyone ever blown a skirt off a HBWC with published non +P data in .38 special?
Not just heard of it, but saw it happen or did it?
I have never seen or even heard of it being done but that doesn't make it so.
Anyone?
Thanks
Mike
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