Range Report 3

125JHP · #1 02-09-2013, 07:26 PM

Tues, Feb 5th - Range Report Part 3

357 Mag

I found this rifle at the Phoenix show.They seem to be very scarce and typically command a premium so when I saw this example on a table, at almost half the going price, I tried to keep a straight face while grabbing it.

My normal desert shooting spot only accommodates 10~15yd targets. I can get 25 and further by angling out over the scrub but 1. I don't like the backstop and 2. I frequently change targets and am wary of coon-tails common to the area. I avoid them whenever possible.
So I decided to try the shooting range a nearby ranch has setup. They have invited me over several times but when I do drop in, I always seem to do more gabbing than shooting and even then, get distracted and forget what I'm doing... so I have tried to stay at my desert spot where I can replicate my methods in a timely manner without distractions. Today there wasn't anyone down at the old ranch house so I went down to use the range (good thing I remembered the gate combo they gave me).

I may as well get my excuses out up front....
1. The picnic table used to shoot off was too low for me to get a comfortable rest off of, so I had to perch my off-hand on top of the wish-bone rest to get the sights aligned. Not the most stable rest.

2. I found out just how bad the stock sights are. At 25 yd the front completely covered the 2" target dots I used. Next time there will be a peep sight and some sort of small front bead or fiber optic out there.

A couple other things I discovered are...
o- It has an unexpected kick with some of the higher end loadings, I don't know why but I expected it to be like a 223 or less.

o-The feeding is not that smooth sometimes and can jam unless you rack the lever quickly or tilt the receiver to the left a little. I've heard of this issue and need to look into it more. At least it fed both 38 and 357 without problem once I figured that trick out.

Finally I don't know if I am going to like my friends range setup. It goes out to 300 yd and has a nice hill backstop but the problem is it is oriented 90 degrees N-S right into the suns path. This doesn't seem good for the chrono as the sun gets pretty low on the horizon and even today it was peeking under the sky screens. I didn't seem to have any false readings however. I might have to build an enclosure for it so I can work on rifle loads down at his place. I can see 300 yds with a scope.

I shot several different loads. Although I was mainly interested in the XTP I took the opportunity to add long barrel data to my spreadsheet for many of my pistol loads just for the heck of it.

Comparing the same loads from the Range Report #2"

158 JHP.FP Hornady XTP -6" pistol 3N37 9.0 1141 fps
Hornady XTP -Rifle avg.grp 1.75" 1366 fps

158 JHP.FP Hornady XTP -6" pistol AA-5 9.0 1151 fps
Hornady XTP -Rifle avg.grp 1.9" 1353 fps

158 JHP.FP Hornady XTP -6" pistol AA-7 10.8 1187 fps
Hornady XTP -Rifle avg.grp .85" 1431 fps

158 JHP.FP Hornady XTP -6" pistol AA-9 13.4 1178 fps
Hornady XTP -Rifle avg.grp 1.4" 1559 fps

158 JHP.FP Hornady XTP -6" pistol 686 LilGun 17.0 1253 fps
Hornady XTP -Rifle avg.grp 1.5" 1789 fps

All groups averaged under 2" however the RR2 AA-5 example opened up to 3" with a low flyer (more likely it was me).

Overall it was nice shooting. It looks like I need more work with this gun before moving out to 50 yd. Maybe new sights will help.

I might also mention that I don't use maximum spread for group sizes. I calculate the average group size using the average-to-center distance. This is a little more accurate in that it helps smooth out flyers and adjusts for the average distance each hole is from the center of the group. You can't easily do this without the computer which is why ES is used so often.

Just for additional info, here are what some of the 38 plinking loads do out of the longer tube...

150 LSWC Cast-H&G 12A Bullseye 3.7 38 Spl 1051 fps
150 LSWC Cast-H&G 12A Zip 4.1 38 Spl 1050 fps
158 LSWC Cast Unique 4.4 38 Spl 1062 fps
158 LSWC.m Billy's Moly Coated AA-5 5.6 38 Spl 1072 fps
158 p.FP Berry's Plated DS 3N37 6.5 38 Spl 1177 fps
158 p.FP Berry's Plated DS AA-5 5.6 38 Spl 1022 fps
158 p.FP Berry's Plated Bullseye 3.4 38 Spl 809 fps
158 p.FP Berry's Plated DS Zip 4.0 38 Spl 956 fps
158 p.FP Berry's Plated DS AA-5 9.0 357M 1143 fps
158 p.FP Berry's Plated DS Zip 6.5 357M 1291 fps
165 LSWC.GC Cast Lead LilGun 14.4 357M 1692 fps

The green 4.1 Zip load ended up at the top of the accuracy list with an Avg.Group of 1.03", The worst was the 165gr gas checked LSWC at 2.34".... this trip.

I had one load (not shown) with a pierced primer and at an extra hi velocity. I'm still investigating the anomaly, but this leads me to Lesson #2 and that is... while pistol rounds will shoot fine in a rifle, if you are loading higher pressure rounds for use in a rifle, then use rifle primers to minimize the chance of primer piercing. In my haste to put together some 357 Mag rounds I was using already primed brass and failed to consider this. I was once again lucky everything stayed together.

Skip Sackett · #2 02-09-2013, 07:34 PM

We need a picture of the rifle first. Otherwise, this whole report didn't really happen!

125JHP · #3 02-09-2013, 07:40 PM

deleted ...

Skip Sackett · #4 02-09-2013, 07:54 PM

That longer tube does wonders for that Lil' Gun load, doesn't it! Take it on up to maximum published data if you don't see any signs of pressure along the way. (Which I doubt you will!)
You will be surprised at how well that little bugger performs!

Here is that video of me shooting a hedge apple with my wife's Marlin. The load is the one that Brian Pearce published in a Rifle Magazine article on the 357Mag Marlins.

Gotta click on it to watch it: (50 yards)

125JHP · #5 02-09-2013, 08:09 PM

Good shooting!

Maximumbob54 · #6 02-09-2013, 09:52 PM

I have got to get my Rossi .44 out to the range to see how well I can do.

You guys have inspired me!!!

(obligatory pic)

Skip Sackett · #7 02-09-2013, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 125JHP

Good shooting!

I cheat, my eyes are old, I have a scope on it!

Skip Sackett · #8 02-09-2013, 10:24 PM

Bob,
I have one of them only in 45Colt. The 44Mag levergun is a Marlin too.

That Rossi like those 454640 bullets, I can tell you that! @ 100 yards, they are minute of clay pigeon accurate too!

I don't have any pictures of them right now, tomorrow I will get some.

Maximumbob54 · #9 02-09-2013, 10:27 PM

125JHP - I want the exact same rifle that you just found but I'm probably going to end up with another Rossi as they are just so cheap and available.

Skip - That's the bullets those loads have in them!!!

papajohn428 · #10 02-10-2013, 06:08 AM

I'm not a fan of Buckhorn (Marlin Factory) sights, I made do with peep sights for years but have finally surrendered and put glass on all seven of my Marlins. You can't hit small if you can't see small!

I think a 357 levergun is about as useful and fun as a light rifle can be, and mine has seen something north of 20K rounds in the ten years I've had it. With the ammo it likes (mine) it will stay under a half-inch at 50 yards, and I burn about a keg of Lil Gun in that gun each year.

Maximumbob54 · #11 02-10-2013, 09:06 AM

Papa, you have filled me with hyper envy over that picture.

4barrel · #12 02-10-2013, 01:22 PM

These things will go over 100yrds. with the right loads. This is something I was playing with and when the weather breaks will try to improve on. You really need a scope to fine tune it.-------The load was a little hot & I had to use CCI mag. rifle primers. <These are Ruger & rifle loads.> The target is 10 years old but if I dont run out of gas I am still going to try it again. Too much to test. The 158 jhp seems to hold up better down range.

Maximumbob54 · #13 02-10-2013, 01:31 PM

If you are willing to load them one at a time then I bet the Hornady Interlock SSP bullets would be real screamers.

125JHP · #14 02-10-2013, 06:01 PM

4barrel, thanks for the post - what is that load label off of? Looks like some good data to enter into my database to try.

papajohn, what type of scope rail do you have mounted on 4 of your rifles? are they held only by the rear dovetail?

Not being a purist by any means, I might go with a scope, now that I see they are common on a lever. I generally take my bifocals off in order to see the front sight clearer, but then everything else is a blur but I was always taught.... Front-Site,Front-Site,Front-Site.

papajohn428 · #15 02-11-2013, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 125JHP

papajohn, what type of scope rail do you have mounted on 4 of your rifles? are they held only by the rear dovetail

I use the XS Lever Scout Mount, the front end uses the rear sight dovetail, the back end is screwed into the holes in the receiver. VERY solid system, there is usually a little fitting needed for the dovetail but it's easy to do. I've used them since about 2001, never had an issue with one, regardless of how many rounds or how much recoil is involved.

For scopes I've had good luck with the NcStar 2X7 "Pistolero" scopes, eye relief is ten inches, which is perfect, and they are under $60 last I checked. I have yet to kill one, even on 44 Mag and 45-70 Marlins that see a lot of rounds. For cheap Chinese scopes, they seem to hold up well. Optics are good enough for my needs, but obviously the optical quality isn't top drawer.

The key to making this system work best is to get the scope mounted as low as possible, with the objective bell right down on the rail. It might even keep the scope from flexing under recoil, if done right. I just keep playing with scope ring heights until I find a set that gives me what I want.

XS Sight Systems - Scope Mounts

When done right, and with a little practice, snap-shooting is as fast as with open sights, yet with a lot more precision involved. I can keep a beer can on the move at 50-60 yards for as long as the ammo holds out, and it's a great training aid for hitting critters on the move!

DGNY · #16 02-12-2013, 12:31 PM

Thanks to the OP for this data and the story. And to others for the scope/mount contributions. The Marlin 94c is indeed a gem. So much is such a compact package.

Wondering if the XS rifle's rear dovetail/front-of-the-mount anchor requires a set screw?

Regards,

Dyson

125JHP · #17 02-12-2013, 09:12 PM

I will find out in a couple days... with some more XTP/FP. I found a couple red-dots on the shelf, so that is covered. Now to mark some 'carbine' cases (notch the rim) and prime them with SRP and start walking my way up to that Lil'Gun load that was mentioned. I will update the results when it gets done (gotta warm up a little first).

papajohn428 · #18 02-13-2013, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGNY

Wondering if the XS rifle's rear dovetail/front-of-the-mount anchor requires a set screw?

The screw that holds the front of the scope rail in place is threaded into the tenon that slides into the dovetail. Once it's snugged up tight, nothing will move, up down or sideways. It's a well-executed system.

SMSgt · #19 02-13-2013, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajohn428

I'm not a fan of Buckhorn (Marlin Factory) sights, I made do with peep sights for years but have finally surrendered and put glass on all seven of my Marlins. You can't hit small if you can't see small!

I think a 357 levergun is about as useful and fun as a light rifle can be, and mine has seen something north of 20K rounds in the ten years I've had it. With the ammo it likes (mine) it will stay under a half-inch at 50 yards, and I burn about a keg of Lil Gun in that gun each year.

I hate a bragger!