Concerns, what should I worry about?

[Houdini1953]

I am very new to reloading. I have a single stage Lee Classic single stage press with 45ACP Lee carbide dies, RCBS 40 caliber Carbide dies and RCBS 9mm RCBS Carbide dies.

I have an RCBS powder measure with the large metering screw and a RCBS 505 balance scale and a digital scale as well.

I also have a Lee Second edition Modern Reloading hardbound handbook! In it it tells me that to reload my 9mm cases to use a starting charge of 5 grains and a maximum load of 5.7 grains using Hodgdon Longshot. This is using a lead cast bullet of 125 grain.

I have loaded 5 rounds with any where from a minimum of 5.0 to 5.2 grains and measured them all at least twice using the 505 scale as well as the digital scale.

I am very concerned with bullet seating and pressure issues these bullets I have have what I believe is called a cannalure and I have seated them just past the cannalure about midway between the cannalure and the tapered part of the bullet.

I have measured the overall length of these bullets against a 115 grain hollow point 9mm and they are quite close to the same, so I guess what I am asking is should I actually shoot these rounds I have produced and what should I look for while shooting, worried about over pressure as well as a possible squib round!

[SteveFi]

do you have a set of calipers? those would tell you the length & then you can look in your manual & see if you are too short or too long. eyeballing vs factory ammo isnt a good idea - I know my mk I eyeball isnt calibrated that precisely or accurately

[Houdini1953]

Originally Posted by SteveFi

do you have a set of calipers? those would tell you the length & then you can look in your manual & see if you are too short or too long. eyeballing vs factory ammo isnt a good idea - I know my mk I eyeball isnt calibrated that precisely or accurately

Yes I do and they are very close in overall measurements and looking at them side by side they look the same as well, the overall caliper measurements are almost identical!

[SteveFi]

as long as the oal is not less than minimum or longer than the maximum listed for your load in your manual then they should be ok. if you are worried, fire 1 & then examine the case for excess pressure signs. if you are using a semi-auto pistol a squib round probably wont work the slide. if you are worried about that check after the first round. if you want - fire a single round & check case & barrel then repeat a few times to check.

Are these your first reloads? sounds like you were careful with the powder so give em a try & enjoy

[arjay]

How does the length of the bullet you're using compare to the length of the bullet in your manual? I'm curious as to how much bullet is inside the case.

[rwsmith]

Comparing to a factory round is ok, but the C.O.A.L (or just O.A.L.) is published info and with a caliper there is no reason to guess at it or be uncertain. Either it's in the usable range or it isn't.

You right to be concerned about this. It can affect pressures drastically. If the overall lengths are ok, and with the care you've take in the powder charge, it sounds like you are good to go.

BTW - do a plunk test with the barrel to make sure they chamber right.

[Houdini1953]

The oal for 125 lead bullet is 1.125 and I am measuring 1.115,1.1159,1.161,1.159, and1.159 on my first 5 bullets!

[11e40]

it's good that your paying attention to detail. i don't think .010 " will hurt hurt if your loads are not max. shoot one & see how the recoil is & case looks. hth.

[SMSgt]

Originally Posted by Houdini1953

The oal for 125 lead bullet is 1.125 and I am measuring 1.115,1.1159,1.161,1.159, and1.159 on my first 5 bullets!

And herein lies the problem with any quoted COL: Exactly what brand 125 Lead bullet, and what shape lead bullet are you refering to?

A 115 grn LRN from company "A" may not use the same COL as a 115 grn LRN from company "B." Nor will a LSWC from either company use the same COL.

Bullet maker reloading data for a 115 grain LRN is based on their bullet. Powder maker reloading data may or may not specify what brand bullet is used to develop its data. Both may have completely different COLs.

Worrying about a few thousands of an inch COL difference will drive you nuts.

[steamloco76]

One tip for 9MM and carbide dies- 9MM Luger cases are slightly tapered which causes much more friction and effort than other pistol brass when resizing.

All you need to make sizing 9MM slick and easy is water based case lube-I use RCBS. Just get a tiny bit on your fingers and "finger-up" about 15-20 rounds of brass. All it takes is a very, very little amount! You will see how easy the resizing goes. When it starts to get tough again-it is time to 'Finger-up' another batch.

When you are completely done loading the ammo and inspecting it for any defects, wipe the cases with an old t-shirt/cloth then put them in you preferred storage container.

[Rule3]

Your 9mm bullets should not have a cannelure. What you should be concerned (not worried) is getting another manual such as Lymans 49 or Lymans CAST bullet. Your lead cast bullet is a totally different animal than comparing it to a JHP bullet.

As SMSGT said, your OAL is not going to be the same as another bullet. You need to do more reading on how to determine OAL and seating before you pull the trigger.

[steamloco76]

Definitely get a copy of the Lyman's 49th Edition Reloading Handbook. I've been reloading for over 25 years and the Lyman manual has the best and latest cast bullet information.

[Granddad]

A lot of very good suggestions in this string. At start loads and 0.01 shorter than the manual spec you should be fine. A little longer (but within SAAMI max OAL) would have been better in that it gives you a slight margin of safety. Don't get to distracted by factory round dimensions, rather stick with the manual specs. Since every chamber and bullet combo is unique, previously mentioned "plunk test" is the way to go.

[Rule3]

The "manuals" OAL is ONLY good if you are using the exact same bullet they did or one that is so close you can't tell the difference.

LEE load data is gathered from other places and complied in the book, They do not state what bullet nor do they give the tested oal.

If you tell us what brand of bullet or post a picture it would help a lot.

[mikld]

Remove the barrel from your gun. Make sure the finished cartridge will fall into the chamber freely ("PLUNK"). Invert the barrel and the cartridge should fall out of the chamber. If your ammo does this, the OAL is close enough to shoot safely.

[Houdini1953]

Here's a picture of the bullets I have they are 125 grain lead cast by Hunters Supply out of Oregon.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by Houdini1953

Here's a picture of the bullets I have they are 125 grain lead cast by Hunters Supply out of Oregon.

OK, this helps a lot. AS mikid said above do the Plunk test. You should find that seating he bullet to just leave a "thumbnail" width of the driving band showing (the part before the bullet starts to round off) will be about the right length,

Then a slight taper crimp and drop it in your barrel. It should plunk in and drop out when you turn the barrel over. Start with the min load of powder. Load about 10 and see if the cycle and feed in your gun.

I use a very similar bullet and my OAL is 1.121. Let be Know what yours comes out to. Should be close.

If you take a closer pic of a loaded dummy round (no primer or powder) We can tell if it looks OK. Your 5 to 5.2 grains of Longshot should be fine to start with the lead bullet.

Again, never compare a different bullet (lead) to a FMJ or a different shape like a HP to a RN. The OAL and how much of the bullet is seated in the case is all different.

[rwsmith]

And you can't find an OAL for your need, the Saami specs say that a 9mm Luger should have a minimum OAL of 1.000" and a maximum OAL of 1.169". This is what all factory ammo is made to. You can look on the Saami site for any cartridge/chamber drawings. They are in PDF but the site is a little difficult to navigate, but everything is there.

[SMSgt]

That greenish band is not a channelure, it's the lube groove.

Rule3 is dead on with the smidgon of driving band showing after seating. About 1/32" exposed is a good estimate, but again, each gun--even from the same maker--has it's own preference. As long as the bullet is not seated beyond the driving band, I wouldn't even measure it. It will be fine.

COL is such a nebulous dimension. It will vary with every weight bullet, every style bullet, ever gun, etc. It's too long only if it won't feed or chamber. Your only real concern is too short of a COL, and that is easily obvious. People spend far too much time concerned with COL.

[Houdini1953]

Here is one of the five bullets seated primed and charged with powder.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by Houdini1953

Here is one of the five bullets seated primed and charged with powder.

Just me, you do as you wish but:

I would seat it deeper, right up to the edge as I described above leaving just a few thousandths of that driving band. What die are you using to crimp?? From the picture it looks like a heavy roll crimp or you crimped it so hard in the lube groove?? It doesn't look right to me.

[scooter123]

While I agree with the others that you should be perfectly safe shooting these loads it's only because they are loaded light. If you had loaded any rounds with 5.4 grains or more I would recommend breaking them down just to be safe.

I would ask you to read the header for your load data in the Lee Manual a bit more carefully. If you do that you will see the header for length says "MIN LENGTH". That means the SHORTEST recommended length is 1.125 inch, not 1.115 inch.

As a basic rule anytime I'm working up a new load I set my overall length to be the minimum length PLUS 0.010 to 0.015 inch. Doing this provides a bit of a cushion for potential variation in seating. I'll also leave my overall length at this slightly long value unless I find there is a compelling reason to edge down towards the minimum.

Final notes. First, don't be so miserly with your load testing. IMO you won't learn anything from just 5 rounds loaded with various weights of powder. Personally I like to test a minimum of 25 rounds at each charge weight, it allows me to see how consistent they are and what kind of accuracy they produce.

Second, don't rely on just only source for reloading data. Bullet profiles can vary and it's quite possible that your particular bullet has a minimum overall length that is different than that published in your Lee manual. One place you should look for data for the bullet you are using is the manufacturer of that bullet.

Third, that groove in your bullet isn't a cannalure, it's a grease groove. So, by placing that groove so that it's fully enclosed in the casing you've got that correct. BTW, from the coloration of that band I suspect these are pre-lubricated bullets to that's one concern you don't have to deal with.

Fourth, there will be occasions where you'll have to make an "educated guess" with some parameter in your load. Unfortunately some bullet manufacturers are now not publishing any load date due to concerns about liability. Personally I think that a rather weasely way to run a business but it is what it is. In addition there will be many times when you won't be able to find data for your choice of bullet and powder. When this happens you'll need to look for a bullet that is close to yours that you can find data for your powder choice. Then you start light, load a bit long, and examine every fired casing for signs of overpressure.

Fifth, if you are using bullets composed of alternate materials such as pure copper or a sintered compound, make sure that you have load data for this bullet using the exact powder you intend to use. Unfortunately because of a large difference in density for these types of bullets they will have a significant difference in length and profile in comparison to a traditional lead based bullet. This is one area where IMO you cannot make an "educated" guess, you need exact data to load to. If you don't have a powder listed in their guide, wait until you have that exact powder before proceeding with loading.