Howdy,
I'd like to know if anyone has any experience with a 750-950 fps lead bullet ,cast or swaged, load out of a .357 rifle.
Mine is 24". I thought I'd like the longer barrel for open sights.
I plan to shoot everything from 148 HBWC to 158 LSWC.
A single shot plinker/small game load is what I'm looking for.
I have Bullseye, Blue Dot, 231 and Unique around. What I don't have is any idea where a 6" barrel load puts me when fired out of a 24" barrel.
I'd appreciate any input you might have.
Thanks a million.
Mike

I don't have experience with the .357 rifle. All I have that addresses this combo is a VERY old Speer #9 manual (1974) that has a reference to 158 gr SWC. Speer says that this information has been superceded in new editions and is no longer valid. If it's like most of the loads in the modern manuals this has most probably been lowered. The Speer manual #14 does not have lead bullet info for .357 rifle. Confirm this elsewhere before using these loads.

Out of a 20" barrel

CCI 500 primers

.358 diameter 158 gr Speer lead SWC

Bullseye powder 3.5 to 4.0 grains 736 fps to 847 fps

It doesn't give any data on HBWC and I'd be very leery about shooting them in a rifle because a torn skirt could end up in the barrel.

You may have to start low and work up looking for signs of overpressure. Make sure that in the lighter loads the bullet ACTUALLY LEAVES YOUR BARREL AND HITS THE TARGET. This sounds like a very easy way to get a bullet stuck in the barrel with very bad results on the next shot.

The Hodgen powder web site has a "Cowboy" action section, that covers the load info you'll need. I have 2-357 carbines now and 2 others in the past. NONE of them worked with full wad cutter loads, so be careful you don't jamb your action full of too short of ammo (if you do, remove the end of the tube magizene to remove them). Other that that most firearms will handel all 38 and 357 ammo. Ivan

Hello Mike, I have used 3.0 grains of Reddot with a 125 thru 140 grain lead bullet for my wifes .357 rifle for years. It has always done well, it is accurate and hits the target with a descent ding, not a powder puff load. Patrick aka Executioner

My notes tell me that in a Marlin, a 158gr lead with gas check clocked 1661 fps with 13.6 gr 2400 powder. Same load in Ruger pistol was1260 fps. Notes also say 125 gr LeeRF from wheelweights was 1450 fps with 7 gr Unique and very accurate. Rifle could have been either a 18 or 20" I don't remember. 3-4 hundred fps gain in a rifle would be about right . Slower powder, more gain.

Under NO Circumstances should 148 HBWCs be fired in a rifle.

This factory target ammunition is loaded with fast burning powders that are consumed in the first few inches of barrel. The chances of a projectile not leaving the barrel is real.

If you handload 148 HBWCs with powders more suited to rifle length barrels as rwsmith has mentioned this greatly raises the risks of a skirt seperation.

I often shoot a few 357 lever guns and pump rifles, but not with ammunition loaded that light.

To get 750-950fps from a 24" barrel you are looking at loads that would yeild 500fps or less from your 4" revolvers.

Additionaly you are creating a round that would need to have the projectile lobbed in if the range was anything in the rifle area. You want more velocity so that the cartridge shoots flatter.

If recoil is the issue, go to light projectiles. Use 75 grain or 100 grain wadcutters and launch them at 1200fps.

If you wanted slower velocities you should have gone with an 18" carbine instead of a 24" rifle

Hi Folks,
I thank you all for the advice but some of you have missed the key elements of the question.
Not that I don't appreciate the advice.
I'm not looking for a hundred yard deer load.
I'm certain I will find a HBWC/LSWC load that is safe and will suit me.
If it can't be done I will report it, but I hoped to draw on the experience of someone who might have tried it before.
I'll be looking for a mild load that will shoot from the ground to the top of a tall oak.
A load that is comparable to a target pistol load when fired from a 24" single shot rifle.
An accurate 50 yard load. A .38 caliber .22 more or less, if that makes any sense.
It may end up a pig in a poke. If so, I'll stuff it with 110 grain jacketed bullets and 20+ grains of H110 and start packing the crow call on my walks.
Anyway, thanks again. I'll have to check out the Cowboy data. Everything else I was coming up with was more than I was looking for.
I'll let you know what I find out. (I might even report back with a round ball load)
Thanks again
Mike

As an addition. I have heard all my life about skirt separation and HBWC bullets. It's not that I don't think it can be done, it's just that I have never done it or seen it done. I've run them pretty hard at times. In the name of science I'll take the 27-2 and run them up to where they come apart and report what I find. I'll load Remington, Speer and Magnus and let you know where they fail. I love a good science project!
Thanks
Professor Stuhr

Why not use the minimum loads in a reloading manual? Just make sure they clear the barrel!

Check your rate of twist. The Rossi's seem to prefer bullets in the 125 gr range though do OK with 158.

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Front sight and squeeze

Hi mtgianni,
1/20
Thanks
Mike

Use 38 specials

Some lever guns do not like to feed LSWC, RNFP work better and you do not run the risk of detonation of a primer in a tube magazine. I never tried a wad cutter in a lever action, I predict feeding problems with that also.

If you are going to feed it individual as a single shot then perhaps, never tried it.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have tried dewc in a Rossi 92. It was a failure. They seem too short.

Howdy CMD,
Was it a accuracy failure or feeding failure or both?
This being a single shot rifle, my plan is to load them as long as I can. There is no need to accommodate any feeding issues.
It's a week or two from being a completed rifle and I'll start in and see what I can come up with.
I was just reminded that we are remodeling around here, but I'll get to it as soon as I can get it all done.
Thanks
Mike

If you ever deceide to shoot at longer ranges you will be happy if you bought the 158gr LFP or SWC bullets.........
plus they will take game and are a great plinking bullet.

Plus they usually work in................anything.

This is a very common and standard load for cowboy action shooters, where rifle velocities are limited to less than 1400 fps and lead bullets only are allowed. Many of the rifles do not feed 38 Special particularly well so folks load them in 357 brass.

Check the Hodgdon site or do a Google search for cowboy action loads for 357. You will find many, and a lot of them are based on Trail Boss although there are many suitable powders. My own load in 357 brass is 5.0 to 5.5gr of WSF with a 158 gr LRN, RNFP or LSWC bullet. I also use 125gr lead TC cast bullets on occasion.

Using HBWCs is not recommended for reasons already stated, but some do use DEWCs for single action revolvers. The problem with them in lever action rifles is that they will often have feeding problems.

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" I said, good DAY! "

I get about 950 FPS from my Rossi M92 20'' carbine using 4.6 gr of Unique under a 158gr LSWC. Soft shooting and fairly accurate.

158g LSWC over 5g of burning dirt - Unique.

Ought to fix you right up, fill the requirements.

Howdy,
Looks like Unique gets the nod. It looks like some people have used and is close to what I want.
I have a good amount around.
I hope to walk to my ammo bins and snatch up what ever I have loaded for PPC or bull eye and grab a hand full and turn them into squirrels.
I think this will be a lot of fun as I expect to flog it from one extreme to the other before I'm done.
Thanks everyone!
Mike

What Rule3 said. You can buy 38 Special ammo or reload your own. I use Trail Boss in my 38 Special and definately RNFP for a lever action tubular magazine. Trail Boss yields very low standard deviation and a case can not be double charged - bullet won't fit.

Standard load is - 125 GR. LRNFP; Trail Boss; 3 grains; 750fps; 11,600 CUP.

I have used that formula and got 720fps in a 6" S&W HE and 800 in a 24: rifle barrel. Very mild shooting in both.

As a note;
the 158 Lwc bullet in a 357 case will be at or near the rifles
lands and groves when it clears the case,for a smoth transfer
and allinement to the cenrter line of the barrel.

Bullets in a short 38 case will have NO SUPPORT when the bullet leaves the case and will have to "Float" to the barrel which could cause accuray problems.

Good shooting.

I'm shooting my ICORE load in my 77/357 with awesome results.

It consists of a 150 gr. RN cast from wheel weights in a Lee mold, 3.0 gr. Clays, and a CCI small pistol primer in .38 case.

It's leaving the muzzle around 950-1,000 fps and is ridiculous accurate at 25 and 50 yards.

[
Howdy,
Thanks for the data. That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for.
How do you like the Ruger? I spent from Christmas up to about two weeks ago looking for a rolling block in .357. Checked all over on line daily. Went to south Florida and back from St.Louis on the two lanes hitting pawn & gun stores along the way and took in shows of all kinds. Never found one, but was tempted more than once by the Ruger. It looks like a fun gun.
Thanks again for the data.
Mike






QUOTE=rather-b-huntin;137084837]I'm shooting my ICORE load in my 77/357 with awesome results.

It consists of a 150 gr. RN cast from wheel weights in a Lee mold, 3.0 gr. Clays, and a CCI small pistol primer in .38 case.

It's leaving the muzzle around 950-1,000 fps and is ridiculous accurate at 25 and 50 yards.[/QUOTE]

Hi Ed,
Thanks. My intentions are to to have the bullet engage the lands on the light loads. We will see how it works out.
Thanks and thanks for the data sent.
Mike

I love the 77/357! I initially bought it for my son to use for deer (he's 9, and a bit intimidated by the .243), but I'm pretty sure it's going to be my truck, atv, camp gun. I'm currently shooting it cheaper than bulk .22 ammo with my ICORE loads too. I installed a Skinner barrel mounted sight on it last week and it's the perfect packing rifle!

This was a feeding failure.

Howdy,
Today was the first day I got to shoot the Contender carbine.
It has it's likes and dislikes.
I'm going to like it.
Anyway,I said I would try to blow a skirt off a 148 grain HBWC. Turns out it is not as hard as I thought.
I have shot thousands of them with 3.5 231. It is one of those loads that shoots in most everything. The 52 will cloverleaf them at 25 along with the PPC /65. The 27 likes them and is not far behind. Never had an issue with them.
Today I ran several loads out of the carbine, when I was out I remembered I had PPC loads with me, 3.5, 231,148 HBWC.
So I shot a group at 25. I shot 5 shots and checked the bore between shots.
The group was Ok but I figured I shot six times by mistake and had a good flyer. (Never registered) I decided to put up a fresh target and try again. First shot looks like this.

Near perfect hole from the nose and a ratty hole from the trailing skirt.
I played a little longer checking the bore between shots and about every third one breaks up out of the carbine. One round didn't even make it on paper at 25.
Just a guess,but I'd bet they start coming apart in the 27 before or around 4 grains.
Thanks again everyone for your help!
Mike

If you're going to shoot WC bullets from your Carbine I would load DEWC bullets, not HBWC bullets.

I have shot exactly what you're looking for from my Carbine for years. Using .357 Magnum brass I load a 158gr LSWC over 4.0gr W231/HP-38 and that will produce ~900 to 950 fps from your 24" levergun. (w/CCI-500 primer)

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