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Old 03-20-2013, 10:52 AM
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Default Published bullet weight vs. actual bullet weight

It's been a long time since I've reloaded, but with factory ammo costs and availability, I've decided to start again.

My questions is:
Does it make any difference if the published bullet weight is different from the actual bullet weight?

I have a box of Speer Gold Dot .38 Super/.357 SIG 125 grain JHP where the bullets actually weigh 131 grains; same thing with Hornady 9mm 124 grain XTP.

The load data for both bullets is based on their published weights, both by bullet and powder manufacturers.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:10 AM
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No, no matter, use the published weight but it does matter on what scale you are using? Is it calibrated correctly?. Bullet weight will vary a bit but yours seems a bit high.??

I find more variation in lead bullets, probably the lube weight and the alloy variation.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:30 AM
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Sometimes you will get a different weight bullet or style mixed in with the "Correct Bullets", it happens...........

Just set it aside in a container and use later, since it will
not have the correct height for the cannelure and will not crimp correctly.

Good eye !!
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:11 PM
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two different bullets running to the high side .... that makes me think its time to check the scale against a standard
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:47 PM
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I have weighed bullets from time to time and never had any jacketed from any quality manufacturer have that much variance. Cast bullets, yes. In most instances the difference isn't enough to be able to see the difference on a target, (with handgun bullets). With rifle bullets, loaded to match specifications out of a match grade rifle, it will show on the target.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:59 PM
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Differences in the batches of lead used. Some more/less dense.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:58 PM
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Differences in the batches of lead used. Some more/less dense.
Agreed but well over a 5% difference in weight, I think not. I would also check the accuracy of the scale being used, especially if you're using the same scale to check the powder throw weights.
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:38 PM
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Agreed but well over a 5% difference in weight, I think not. I would also check the accuracy of the scale being used, especially if you're using the same scale to check the powder throw weights.
and well over 5% high in a jacketed bullet ....
bear in mind these are usually made with pure lead cores, which would become lighter with alloy components, as might be understandable of late.
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:52 PM
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Speer makes very good, consistent bullets. I am curious as to what scale you are using and it's calibration.
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:10 PM
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I'm using a MTM Case-Guard DS-750 digital scale (with new batteries). I calibrated it with 2 separate 50 grain weights. The Speer bullet was 131.5 grains, the Hornady was 131.2; I weighed multiple bullets pulled randomly from the boxes
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:24 PM
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Do you have any other bullets of anything that you can weigh? If find other bullets are running 6 grains over the label on the box, then you have a scale problem. Would be interesting to weight some 243 or 22 bullets in the 55, 70 grain range and some 30 cal 180, etc. Anything other than the 125 grainers you have. Do you have a shooting buddy that will loan you a few bullets for a few days?
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:39 PM
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I just weighed Hornady 124gr Hp/XTP part #35571 on a Dillon beam balance scale and it is 124 grains on the money. Brand new box. Factory sealed for your protection
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:14 PM
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safearm
sounds like the sun might be sending solar flares this way
or someone is using a cell phone next door

just kidding - I don't mean to make light of what could be a scale issue - but I have a Lyman 1500XP digital that cost $149
it just generates random numbers - I have absolutely no trust in it! especially when some powder charges, from minimum to maximum only vary .4 gr to .6 gr.

I'll pass on what I read here:
check weights are a must - something like this set:
Cabela's: RCBS® Deluxe Scale Check-Weight Set

and beam scales aren't messed up by static, radio frequency waves, etc

I picked up a used OHaus 10-10 for $60 at a gunshow and use my test weights frequently - never found it to be off more then a 0.1 gr

there are plenty of tricks and short cuts using a beam scale as fast as a digital
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:07 PM
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Most of the bullets I have weighed are within 1~2 grains, usually on the light side.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:17 PM
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Are you checking the scale zero with no pan then putting the bullet in a pan or paper cup to weigh it? If so your process is flawed. If you are checking the zero with nothing on the scale then you should just set the bullet on the bare scale to weigh. If your process is correct then your scale is defective period.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:19 PM
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safearm,

In over 50 years of reloading, and thousands of bullets weighed, I have yet to see any jacketed bullet from any major manufacturer vary from the nominal weight by even 1 gr, and usually less than .2 gr, regardless of the weight. This includes bullets from 40 gr. .22 cal to 500 gr.+ 45 caliber. This includes beam balances from Pacific, Redding and Ohaus and also exactly the same scale you are using.

You can argue all you want, but if your scale zeroes when turned on but shows weights for major brand jacketed bullets that vary as much from stated weight as you say you say you have seen then your scale is defective. This may be from shipping damage, it has been dropped, or a weight much too heavy for the strain gauge placed on it and it is damaged. If it was bought new and has always been this way then call MTM and see what they will do about it. If you damaged it by dropping or whatever then suck it up and buy another. By all means replace it though, it is a very real safety hazard.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipking View Post
Are you checking the scale zero with no pan then putting the bullet in a pan or paper cup to weigh it? If so your process is flawed. If you are checking the zero with nothing on the scale then you should just set the bullet on the bare scale to weigh. If your process is correct then your scale is defective period.
Chip King
If I were a betting man, I'd say you're right.

I'd say you need to calibrate the scale with the pan so that you know for certain your powder charges are what the read out says it is.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:53 AM
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Yep me too. The "Tare" setting
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
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I'm using a MTM Case-Guard DS-750 digital scale (with new batteries). I calibrated it with 2 separate 50 grain weights. The Speer bullet was 131.5 grains, the Hornady was 131.2; I weighed multiple bullets pulled randomly from the boxes


Safearm, I always weigh a sample of bullets when I load and those numbers are way off. While one manufacturer may have inadvertently placed a heavier weight bullet in the wrong box, to have it from two (and get similar weights) is highly unlikely.

As much as I like and trust my digital, I spent considerable more than $40 on it. You may want to consider a new scale.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:01 AM
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The OP's question was does this degree of error on the weights make a difference. The answer is absolutely yes, it does. You are down to only two real issues to check: The bullets are mis-marked, or the scale is mis-calibrated. I have never seen factory bullets off by nearly that much. Both Speers and Hornadys off that far? Extremely unlikely. Your scale is the culprit. It just about has to be.

I'm worried about your powder charges more than the bullet weights. I'd stop reloading today, don't shoot what you've already loaded, and get the scale checked. You could get hurt. That is just too far off.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:31 AM
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Thanks for all of the inputs. I purchased the scale at a large volume gun store; they exchanged it for a new scale without any questions. Now both bullets weigh exactly as published. I had not loaded any rounds using the first scale; I loaded and test fired some sample rounds this weekend without problem.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:20 AM
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I'm glad everything worked out for you and I'm glad you found the scale problem and fixed it before it became a problem.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:49 PM
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Default check weights

Safearm
you’re not out of the woods yet!

That your scale matches the published bullet weight at 124 gr. isn’t that critical.

What’s critical is the powder charge! Some 9mm loads don’t even have a full grain difference between min and max – the scale needs to measure the powder accurately (say for example between 4.7 gr and 5.3 gr)

Please get and use Check weights to verify your scale is measuring accurately within the powder charge limits you are loading

Fluorescent lights, cell phones, static, etc. can cause digital scales to be imprecise and more importantly inaccurate.

Fortunately I had been loading a S&W 686 with light loads only when I found out my digital scale was off using a check weight set
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:21 PM
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I still do not understand how the 50 grain check weights weighed correctly but the bullets did not?? That makes no sense.? It would weigh up to 50 but then go crazy above that.

I still suggest get a mechanical beam balance scale. Unless you pay major money for a lab quality electronic it is always going to be questionable. Sometimes simple is better. Plus the mechanical ones are lifetime warranty, not that anything goes wrong with them, They have been used for hundreds of years.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:56 PM
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So have slide rules. And I quit using mine to check the accuracy of my calculator about a week after I got it. And they conquered the fluorescent light thing back in the 80's.

IMO, any digital in the hundred dollar range is accurate and reliable.
But if you're more comfortable with a beam, cool. They're neat.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:03 PM
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OP said he calibrated it with 2 separate 50 gr weights
he didn't say he checked it after calibration, he may have -then you would be correct - it makes no sense
but my Lyman did some wierd stuff - the first indication I had was with the tare weight - with the pan off the scale - the negative values on the display would vary by tenths and even whole grains - but when I put the pan back on - it would display 0.0

As you suggest here - I took yours and others advice on the mechanical beam scale and check weights months ago - I hope the OP does too
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:22 PM
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bluejax01 - I wish you were right
I wish the Lyman 1500XP digital scale (cost $149) worked - it has a great setup with trickler mounted right next to pan - but it don't! I wish Lyman refurbished it or sent me a new one - when I sent it to them at 2 months old, but they didn't - they sent me mine back saying it was okay when it wasn't - I also took it to another reloaders bench and we compared it to his RCBS digital in his workshop- Lyman showed different weights everytime

now they sell the 2000XP digital scale with its 2000 grain capacity- I think I'll stick with my Ohaus

Hornady or RCBS and others may be fine, but as a general statement of $100 and up are fine, I have to respectively disagree
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:39 AM
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So have slide rules. And I quit using mine to check the accuracy of my calculator about a week after I got it. And they conquered the fluorescent light thing back in the 80's.

IMO, any digital in the hundred dollar range is accurate and reliable.
But if you're more comfortable with a beam, cool. They're neat.
Well don't come crying when we have a EMP blast.
Anything electric is going to die eventually.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:43 AM
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Well don't come crying when we have a EMP blast.
....
Damn, hadn't thought about that!
What's the title of the book? One Second After, right?
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:45 AM
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I've been in the 1 and 0 game my entire adult life.

I love electronic scales, admire the progress made, but will never have a blind trust of any of them.

While many electronic scales are quite accurate and reliable, I always give the 10-10 the nod when doing precision work.
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