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03-31-2013, 10:17 PM
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What is your favorite powder for .38 Special and .38 +P?
I have been using Unique. It is just filthy in a .38. Just wondering what you all use?
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03-31-2013, 10:28 PM
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Moderator SWCA Member Absent Comrade
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I use a lot of W231/HP-38 for all my handgun loading especially .38 Special and 45 Auto.
W231/HP-38 for the .38 Special
HS-6 for the .38 Special +P (but W231 will also work)
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03-31-2013, 10:29 PM
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Universal Clays and Tight Group for me.
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03-31-2013, 11:00 PM
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Universal here also.
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03-31-2013, 11:19 PM
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Bullseye and TG.
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03-31-2013, 11:21 PM
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Are these cleaner than Unique?
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03-31-2013, 11:21 PM
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VV350
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03-31-2013, 11:24 PM
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W231 is nice and clean, I've also used the newer WST which seems very clean, Also I've used Clays seems like what little fouling it does have seems (opinion) softer and easy to clean up
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03-31-2013, 11:30 PM
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I'm partial to Unique for both regular .38 Special loads as well as +P loads. Unique will clean up once you get to the middle of the charge weights. My M10 likes 4.6gr with a 158gr SWC for a standard pressure load. I've also worked with W231 for little bit as well, 4.5gr with a 158gr SWC shoots really well. I haven't worked up any +P loads with 231 as I think Unique serves that purpose better. That being said I'm certainly aware that W231 is fully capable of +P loads too, I just think that Unique fits that application better.
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04-01-2013, 12:10 AM
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Unique, same as you.
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04-01-2013, 12:33 AM
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W231 is great for +P loads and is cleaner at that pressure level than
standard pressure but also works well for standard loads. Bullseye is
smokey but is a great powder for standard loads along with Titegroup.
The cleanest powder I have used for standard pressure loads is WST,
the replacement for the discontinued 452AA.
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04-01-2013, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 336A
I'm partial to Unique for both regular .38 Special loads as well as +P loads. Unique will clean up once you get to the middle of the charge weights. My M10 likes 4.6gr with a 158gr SWC for a standard pressure load. I've also worked with W231 for little bit as well, 4.5gr with a 158gr SWC shoots really well. I haven't worked up any +P loads with 231 as I think Unique serves that purpose better. That being said I'm certainly aware that W231 is fully capable of +P loads too, I just think that Unique fits that application better.
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I am using 4.6 grains of Unique under a 158 grain SWC. I find it absolutely filthy. It is accurate as heck though. One jagged hole at 15 yards. But man is it a mess.
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04-01-2013, 05:44 AM
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Try a pound of Universal. It's a clean burning, great metering, wide application powder.
If you like Unique's for its range of applications, Universal is certainly worth a range test.
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04-01-2013, 06:05 AM
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Unique or HP38
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04-01-2013, 07:17 AM
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W231. I gave up on Unique years ago.
Mark
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04-01-2013, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD
I use a lot of W231/HP-38 for all my handgun loading especially .38 Special and 45 Auto.
W231/HP-38 for the .38 Special
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^^^^^THIS^^^^^^
I also like Bullseye for 38 special.
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04-01-2013, 07:49 AM
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W231, Great For Both Applications.
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04-01-2013, 08:30 AM
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In 38 special I use 3.8 grains of Accurate #2 with 158 GR. SWC that is very accurate in my 8 3/8 27 with very little recoil.
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04-01-2013, 08:30 AM
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Been using Unique for decades. May switch over to W231/HP-38 once my supply of Unique runs out.
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04-01-2013, 08:59 AM
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Yet another Win 231/HP38 user here. Usually HP38 is cheaper by a dollar or two so I stock up on that. I managed to find a four pound jug of Win 231 on sale a few months back so I'm at least good for a little while before I have to pay today's current goofy new prices.
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04-01-2013, 09:10 AM
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Bullseye works great and you get more rounds per pound.
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04-01-2013, 09:20 AM
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I use HP-38, which is Winchester 231, with a different label, and usually a bit less expensive. For mid range power, it is an excellent powder. I use it for .38 special, .44 special, .45 ACP, and 9mm.
Reasonably clean burning, and the same powder removes one factor that can cause a Kaboom. The big difference in how dirty the gun is lies in shooting lead vs copper coater or copper plated.
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04-01-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarge1967
Are these cleaner than Unique?
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No they ain't! If you're shooting lead bullets with wax lube then the rounds are going to be dirty. The lube is the primary culprit with the graphite in the powder the second cause. Bullseye and Unique have always been known as grimy although ATK(the producer) announced a few years ago they were making a cleaner Unique now.
TiteGroup is right up there in dirtiness!
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04-01-2013, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&WIowegan
No they ain't! If you're shooting lead bullets with wax lube then the rounds are going to be dirty. The lube is the primary culprit with the graphite in the powder the second cause. Bullseye and Unique have always been known as grimy although ATK(the producer) announced a few years ago they were making a cleaner Unique now.
TiteGroup is right up there in dirtiness!
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I have shot lead out of revolvers in the past without all this grime. Maybe it just the brand of bullet I am using. They are made by S&S Casting.
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04-01-2013, 10:29 AM
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This issue with Unique was just discussed at length in another thread the other day and it was pointed out that your load and crimp will have as much as anything to do how it burns. Not sure what your load demands are, i.e., bullseye/wadcutter or just general plinking but honestly Unique is a bit on the slow side for anything but heavier bullets and moderate to full power loads. Don't get me wrong this powder will do it all and almost always with good accuracy but light loads in the 38 special would not be my first choice. Of course I am lucky to have a large selection to powder to pick from.
For Bullseye or target work I changed over to AA #2 years ago after shooting Bullseye for close to 20 years. Both give superb accuracy with very little velocity spread but are a low volume charge that you need to be carefull with. For more power with heavier bullets I really like 4756 at least the batch lot I have on hand and AA #5 both of which fill the case a bit more. There are at least a half dozen good powders for this cartridge maybe more but I would look for a powder that will fill at least half the case and learn to crimp. The crimp or bullet pull factor will have a lot to do with performance and burn.
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04-01-2013, 10:53 AM
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I am loading 4.6 grains with a 158 grain SWC. I would call this a "standard" .38 load.
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04-01-2013, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarge1967
I am loading 4.6 grains with a 158 grain SWC. I would call this a "standard" .38 load.
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I agree that is a moderate load that should be accurate and running maybe 750 fps or so. Pleasant range load for sure. This is a lead SWC bullet —right ? if so put a fairly stiff roll crimp on it and see if the load performs any better and cleaner. I bet it will
regards
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04-01-2013, 12:42 PM
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I have used Unique with lead and Jhp in my 6" down to my
1 7/8" snub nose with mixed results.
It depends on the bullet weight, primers, fps and type of
crimp that you are using in your loads.
As mentioned , this powder is best at medium to +P velocity
in the 38 spl but it will give me +P in my snub nose with the
little 110 Jhp to the 158gr Lhp with Alliant data and burns
clean until I load it at target speeds with the 148 and 158gr
LRN bullets.
This powder will be dirty or clean and have poor to great
accuracy in your revolvers.............You just have to work with
it to see what works best for you and don't be scared to put
a good crimp on your high fps loads.
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04-01-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed
I have used Unique with lead and Jhp in my 6" down to my
1 7/8" snub nose with mixed results.
It depends on the bullet weight, primers, fps and type of
crimp that you are using in your loads.
As mentioned , this powder is best at medium to +P velocity
in the 38 spl but it will give me +P in my snub nose with the
little 110 Jhp to the 158gr Lhp with Alliant data and burns
clean until I load it at target speeds with the 148 and 158gr
LRN bullets.
This powder will be dirty or clean and have poor to great
accuracy in your revolvers.............You just have to work with
it to see what works best for you and don't be scared to put
a good crimp on your high fps loads.
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Amen to that. Spoken by a shooter and loader who knows the game
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04-01-2013, 01:32 PM
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Bullseye for target loads.
Red Dot for standard velocity, mid range loads.
Unique for +P loads .
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04-01-2013, 01:44 PM
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Dirt, schmirt. They all work and a quick clean after shooting is all you need to do.
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04-01-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garbler
I agree that is a moderate load that should be accurate and running maybe 750 fps or so. Pleasant range load for sure. This is a lead SWC bullet —right ? if so put a fairly stiff roll crimp on it and see if the load performs any better and cleaner. I bet it will
regards
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I will tighten up the crimp a bit on my next batch of .38s when I make them again.
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04-01-2013, 02:17 PM
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I'm loading all my .38/.357 lead with VhitaVouri N320. About as clean as a gunpowder comes. Works well from target/plinking loadings up through +P and into the slower/lighter .357 weights. My hands aren't filthy from removing cases and loading rounds while handling the cylinder. I shoot mainly 2-3" barrel J frames, oh yeah and one K frame (2.5").
Stu
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04-01-2013, 04:02 PM
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Normally it is Bullseye. Right now it is what ever I can find on the near empty shelves. At present that is 700X.
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04-01-2013, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunkhome
Normally it is Bullseye. Right now it is what ever I can find on the near empty shelves. At present that is 700X.
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I hear ya'
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04-01-2013, 04:10 PM
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Bullseye and unique work for me
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04-01-2013, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunkhome
Normally it is Bullseye. Right now it is what ever I can find on the near empty shelves. At present that is 700X.
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I actually feel guilty for having a nice stash of powder knowing so many who want to shoot are out there trying to find anything let alone their first or even third choice. The situation is the worst I have ever seen in 45 years and by a long ways. I saw shortages during the Viet Nam years on brass and a few other things then again in the 80's but nothing like we are experiencing right now.
Hang in there
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04-01-2013, 05:23 PM
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Unique is dirty, but.......
I hope I'm not repeating myself, but I find that Unique is very dirty, but it cleans up very easily from a few hours at the range.
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04-02-2013, 08:35 AM
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Well, Bullseye is dirty... Never realized how much until I started shooting stainless revolvers. I am willing to do a little extra cleaning for the superb accuracy and the 3000+ loads per pound.
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04-02-2013, 01:37 PM
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Some reloaders are lucky and can get a "Clean" powder to shoot well in their guns with their reloads, which is nice.......
I just have to keep using the "Old Dirty" powders that get all
over the revolver and go through the powder thrower like rocks
but kick out groups that can be covered with a 50 cent piece...
So far they have beat out SR 4756 & 4759, IMR 4227, Universal Clays, 800x w540 and w231 in my year of testing loads in my two snub nose M49's.
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04-02-2013, 03:20 PM
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I've always used Win231. I tried Unique years ago and came home wearing half of it.
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04-02-2013, 06:15 PM
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Banned
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3.5gr of Bullseye with ANY 158-165gr lead bullet for 38spl loads.
SR4756 and the same bullets for anything +P.
FWIW
The reason you wore half of the Unique you shot was they were too light of loads. Put it up to near +P or use older data and that will go away.
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04-07-2013, 02:59 PM
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I would have to add bullseye for just plan plinking rounds in 38. But not +p.
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04-07-2013, 03:07 PM
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Bullseye....the end!
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04-07-2013, 06:50 PM
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Bullseye for target work. Power Pistol and Unique for heavy loads....
I don't know what you mean by dirty...
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04-07-2013, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelwrench
Bullseye for target work. Power Pistol and Unique for heavy loads....
I don't know what you mean by dirty...
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I mean my hands were black after 150 rounds through my 4" model 64. It was like I had been shooting Black Powder.
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04-07-2013, 08:23 PM
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A cheap $10-15 pair of light leather golf gloves will solve that dirty hand problem......... I even use them shooting trap.....
or not.................
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04-07-2013, 09:08 PM
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Unique is "dirty" at low pressures, but cleans up nicely at higher pressures. Unfortunately, 38 and even 38+p is a low pressure round. 38 special loads are about 12,000 psi at max and Unique is just barely getting happy at this pressure with lots of soot and unburned flakes.
I shoot the Lee 358-158-RF seated to .355" with 5.0g Uniuqe and the powder is pretty happy at that load which gives me about 990 fps through a 4" Ruger Service Six.
With your 750 fps loads, you'd be much happier with Clays. I load 3.0g and with my bullet, I get 750 fps and a real light recoil. If you seat your bullets shallower, you might need to bump the charge up a couple tenths. The powder burns completely and generates lots of pressure for consistent veolcities, but you don't want to squeeze any more velocity out of this powder or you'll be over pressure quickly.
If you want more velocity and a clean burn, get some Hodgdon Universal Clays aka Universal. It is based on Clays technology and is a slower powder which performs like Unique, just cleaner and more expensive. International Clays is between Clays and Universal (sort of like Green Dot being between Red Dot and Unique).
I love the economy of Bullseye, but it will turn a stainless revolver into what looks like a blued revolver in 50 rounds.
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04-08-2013, 07:24 AM
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Universal for me, found it to be a better overall powder than Unique.
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04-08-2013, 11:29 AM
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Unique and 158 LSWC for me. Different lubes are what I notice resulting in smoke and soot.
WILDPIG
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