Loading for a Marlin 1895 in 45-70

[Capt. Bob]

I am going to start loading for a new Marlin 1895. I have just orderd my dies, brass and bullets. All I could get was 350 grain Hornady JSP. I would like to use IMR3031 or H4198 because that is what I have the most of on hand right now. I am open to other recomendations though. Has anyone else had any experience with this cartridge? thanks

[Ivan the Butcher]

Lyman loading manuals have lots of info. You can safely get very hot (and highly unpleasant) loads with 3031. So you may want to start with loads that duplicate black powder velocities, making small batches and slowly working up in speed. I have 4 45-70 rifles and enjoy shooting the with moderate loads and don't enjoy but use the Guide Gun with hot defense ammo. You also may want to look into cast bullets in the 300 and 405 grain weights, these you can buy or cast and lube your own. You will soon find out why after a 140 years, this is still a popular and capable cartridge. I don't know how much brass you bought, but from my and other's experience, You should order more now, It won't be cheaper in the future!(same goes for bullet moulds). Ivan

[Mike_in_VA]

I have not tried the 350 gr Hornady bullet.

Here are two loads that did well in my 1895:

Starline Brass
Remington 300 gr JHP

49.0 gr. IMR3031
CCI 200 Primer
Vel 1448 fps
1.8" group

55.0 gr IMR4895
WLP Primer
Vel 1692 fps
1.5" group

Higher or lower powder charges opened the group size.

For cast bullets, Accurate 5744 is good.

[ArchAngelCD]

When I load lead bullets suitable for my trapdoor I use wither H4198 or more often now AA5744. I recently bought a Marlin in 45-70 too and I am loading 300gr and 350gr JSP or JHP bullets and i also chose 3031. I'm loading to top end Trapdoor pressures or starting Levergun pressures, many times those are the same. At my age I'm not interested in going to the top of the pressure range and hurting my shoulder. Actually, I think 4198 will work just as well but i have a few pounds of 3031 I want to use up since I no longer use it in my 30-30 rounds. (using LVR in the 30-30 now)

[Snapping Twig]

I load two levels with each weight bullet, trapdoor level and 1895 level.

You can use pistol powders to achieve excellent results with BP level original loads - trapdoor.

Here's a nice site for that:

Lever Gun Performance Studies

For the modern high velocity stuff, I have been using 4198 to great success.

Castboolits has a nice NOE 420g mould, check them out.

[zeke]

H-4198 is excellent choice for 300/350 grain jacketed bullets from 1895 . Look at Hodgen reloading manual starting charge for lever actions. With the hdy 350 jrn, this gets you around 1850-2000 fps depending on barrel lenght. Would be very wary about increasing up to their listed max's, unless a glutton for punishing self and rifle.

Premium pre-fit recoil pads make a huge difference.

[Nframecollector]

I used to shoot the Elmer Keith recommended load of 53 grs. of 3031 with a 405 gr. cast bullet! Backed it off to 48 grs. after shooting 500 rounds. Too much recoil and unpleasantness!!!

[chief38]

Well I will admit to loading up some real Wuss loads for my Marlin 1895. I use 36 grains of H4895 under a 300 grain lead flat nose bullet. I can shoot all day long with that load and not only is it mild & accurate, but it is one of the cleanest burning powders I have ever seen! For punching holes in paper that's all I need! For hunting I obviously would load up toward the maximum and use heavier SJHP bullets.

[Ivan the Butcher]

A friend of mine died about 8 years ago, and I inherited all his lever gun and black powder ammo. There were 60 rounds of 45-70, 5744 loads in the assortment. I sighted in my Browning 1886 with a 100 yard zero. I used it in a Cowboy action side match called "speed rifle", which is 1 or 2 sighters then on the clock 5 rounds as fast as you can, this is **** off hand. My buddy never won a match of any kind, he had a lot of "kiss your sister seconds", but not one first. Using his ammo I won with no misses (5 second penalty) and a total time of 2.2 seconds. I was the first shooter, so the steel target plate only had a 1 1/2" group at about 70 yards. When I returned to fold of gunshop commandos, I told his best friend that he finally won a match. I had a pile of his cast bullets, his can of powder, and the load data off the 3 boxes ammo, BUT I could never that load to shoot like that again! I have gotten other really good results with AA5744 and with Trail Boss.
With Trail Boss: load the case to the bottom of the seated bullet, but DO NOT compress the powder, use a standard large rifle primer and it will do very well. Different brands of cases have different volumes, so fill a case with the correct charge. Measure from the case mouth to the top of the powder, mark that distance from the bottom of the bullet, and use that as a seating depth guide. If your crimp groove isn't aliened properly (and you will want to use it), adjust the powder level so there is less than 1/16 inch of space between bullet and powder. This is Hodgdon's method for best load, I've used it on 45-70 and 38-55 loads, they will be in the area of Black powder velocity.(These 38-55's did a 5/8" 10 shot group @ 100 yards out of my high wall.) Ivan

[dla]

Originally Posted by Capt. Bob

I am going to start loading for a new Marlin 1895. I have just orderd my dies, brass and bullets. All I could get was 350 grain Hornady JSP. I would like to use IMR3031 or H4198 because that is what I have the most of on hand right now. I am open to other recomendations though. Has anyone else had any experience with this cartridge? thanks

Good powder choices, good bullet. Personally, I like H4198 better than 3031 because Hodgdon's "Extreme" series is much less temp sensitive. I would get 100fps+ variation between cold and hot with 3031 with my 1895. But 3031 is still a very good powder for that cartridge.

You'll have to experiment a bit to find your rifle's sweet spot. I recommend that you don't get too hung up on trying to achieve max velocity - because it is not needed (and diminishing returns - you can't flatten the trajectory meaningfully). When you find the sweet spot your group will go from 4moa to sub-moa. I shoot a Guide Gun and different weight bullet so my pet load is of no value to you.

After you've full-length resized your brass once you might consider neck-sizing only. I have a Lyman neck-size die that works well for me but I believe that Lee makes one as well - really saves on the grunt work.

I strongly suggest the Lee Factory Crimp Die as it is simply a better mousetrap for achieving a strong crimp. You'll need to make sure you've got a good crimp to prevent bullet setback - very important. I've found Nickel-plated brass to be more "slippery" than plain brass.

Don't let your COL get past 2.6" or it won't cycle in the 1895 action.

Have fun!

[Capt. Bob]

I loaded up various charge wts. with H4198 today a shot till my shoulder got too sore. I settled on 49.5 grains and am really pleased with the groups. I am already getting better groups than my two other lever guns (both Winchesters).

[cochise]

Good for you.
I shoot Hor 350 grn FP with 41.5 grns 4198 in Rem cases and had to use a Lee crimping die. Theyr'e not hot loads but not mild either. You need to watch what cases you use in 45/70 they are different and can be a problem if you try to inter-change load data.

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by Capt. Bob

I loaded up various charge wts. with H4198 today a shot till my shoulder got too sore. I settled on 49.5 grains and am really pleased with the groups. I am already getting better groups than my two other lever guns (both Winchesters).

Other than AA5744, H4198 is my favorite 45-70 powder. I recently tried AA5744 and while I'm usually very hard to turn away from time tested powders like H4198 I really like AA5744 in the 45-70 and I think I will be using it for a good long time.

[Hayden]

For the 45-70 loading, I would Highly suggest you take a trip over to the Marlin Owners Forum. There is days of reading in the 45-70 forum there and in the reloader forum. Those guys have great info. I have learned a lot over there and just getting started reloading for this also. Like these guys above, I have chosen IMR 3031 4198 and Reloader7 for powders. I like the 405gr cast and picked up 250 of these from Lazercast.

Hayden.

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by Hayden

For the 45-70 loading, I would Highly suggest you take a trip over to the Marlin Owners Forum. There is days of reading in the 45-70 forum there and in the reloader forum. Those guys have great info. I have learned a lot over there and just getting started reloading for this also. Like these guys above, I have chosen IMR 3031 4198 and Reloader7 for powders. I like the 405gr cast and picked up 250 of these from Lazercast.

Hayden.

I have shot 45-70 ammo using IMR4198, H4198, H4895, AA5744, Trail Boss and IMR3031 but I have yet to try RL-7. With all the good powders i already have on the shelf for the 45-70 it will be a while before I give RL-7 a try. (mostly with a 405gr LFN bullet)

[dla]

Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD

I have shot 45-70 ammo using IMR4198, H4198, H4895, AA5744, Trail Boss and IMR3031 but I have yet to try RL-7. With all the good powders i already have on the shelf for the 45-70 it will be a while before I give RL-7 a try. (mostly with a 405gr LFN bullet)

I've tried a bunch of powders and found that you can get a sweet spot with all of them. My point is that the 45-70 is a very, very easy cartridge to load and get great accuracy.

The fastest I've used is H4198, the slowest H4895 (even tried H335). And of course IMR3031 and Alliant Reloader 7. IMO, Hodgdon has the best stuff, but again, a fellow can get great results with just about anything.

Now I personally feel that the faster powders give better results, which is why I don't use Varget, H4895, H335, etc. But I don't think there is all that much difference from H4198 to BenchMark.

Unless you are hunting armor-plated Grizzlies, just about any bullet in the 350-400'ish range will knock a big hole in darn near anything. You don't need a "premium" bullet. I like the 405gr Rem JSP, but I hear they are hard to come by nowadays. Hardcast bullets are 1/2" hole drillers and I don't care much about the "fantasy" bullets at $2/shot.

A 405gr@1800fps has the same momentum as a 270gr@2700fps (375H&h).

Summary: Just about any of the faster powders give great results and a great big chunk of slow moving lead is not fragile or lacking in penetration. And the 45-70 can be loaded to an impressive power level for a lever-action carbine.

[Beaver]

I've reloaded quite a lot for three different Marlins, two 1895/24" and my favorite was the 1895 Cowboy w/ 26", full length mag. 10 rds in this gun made it a little heavy, but formidable. My first loads 25yrs ago are affectionately named "Snot Blowers", we just had to go large. 405gr Rem Jacketed and 51gr. 3031. They'd get sticky in the Cowboy, but the 24" rifles shot them very accurately. My normal load now is 350 Oregon Trail cast with 48 gr. 3031. Doesn't blow snot as well, but more fun to shoot.

This round and rifles from Marlin have simply become some of my favorite rifles. My current 1895 45-70 is an early straight stock, Williams peep, factory front bead for now. I've owned this gun at least three times over the years, trading it around with the local gun-pigs like me, of course.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

38.0 gr of IMR4198 and a Remington 405gr JSP is what my 1895ss liked. Shot around 1650 fps. That shouldn't be too hot. But as aways use at your own risk. I'm pretty sure that's a Marlin (or strong action) only load.