Case Separation?

[Road Rat]

I went to the range today to shoot up some .38's I reloaded last Winter..............simple until two of the cases separated!!

They appear to have been already almost through - only a couple or three shiny spots on the connections.

Time to go back and very closely inspect all the cases....

Just sharing:

[Forrest r]

Odd?????

I've shot countless 1000's of 38spl's/357's over the decades and have never had any case separation like that.

Split in the side/body of the case, absolutely.
Cracks in the neck area from too many reloads, yes.
Wore the nickle plating off of cases and have the brass showing thru, yes.

Perhaps someone else has seen or experienced this in 38spl cases and will chime in.

Thank you for posting the pic's.

[SMSgt]

Brand of brass would be helpful.

[Road Rat]

Originally Posted by SMSgt

Brand of brass would be helpful.

They are both FEDERAL.

[Engineer1911]

If you have several hundred cases, further detailed case inspection is pointless. Do a reasonable case inspection when you reload and call it good.

I have been shooting 38 specials for 45 years without any injuries or firearm damage. That is a successful case failure -- no more reloading that one -- but no reason for alarm. The case scratches indicate to me that the case has been resized in a steel (not carbide) sizer die without lubrication. Bad technique, but not a disaster.

If you are OCD or a perfectionist, feel free to get the brass surgically clean, perform a detailed case inspection with bright light, magnifying glass, and a pointed inspection tool searching for possible cracks. Do what you feel comfortable with in further use of the brass. I'd tumble, reload and shoot it again.

[Rule3]

"Incipient" case head separation (is the term) which is no longer incipient

It happens more so on rifle brass like 223, 308 where the case gets weak at the end of the case web and case body. Never seen it on a 38 or straight wall case.

Use a a dental pick (or bent paper clip) and lightly probe the inside of the brass and you can feel a line or indent starting at the web junction Then you know it's time to ditch that piece of brass.

In your example it is probably just really old brass or loaded a gazillion times? Brand of brass is not an issue.

[BB57]

I'm also in the majority of people who have never had a straight wall case separate.

Neck splits are common as the brass is eventually embrittled by sizing and belling of the case.

In the case of straight cases in tapered chambers (e.g .45 Colt) spider cracks in the side wall are common, due to the repeated expansion and re-sizing of the middle of the case.

Less commonly you'll get spider cracks in the sidewall of a straight case fired in a straight chamber, which generally happens in more generously cut chambers.

However, I've never had a case separation in a straight wall case. As a practical matter, you get far less growth in the length of a straight wall case than you get in a bottle necked case, due to the differences in how they headspace, their operating pressures, and how they react initially in the chamber.

On the other hand, I suppose if you had excessive head space in a revolver, where the case adhered to the cylinder while the head was forced back against the frame, you'd potentially get some stretch that could accumulate over time to the point where the case thins in front of the web. It would also have to be severe enough to occur before the case dies of other natural causes.

In that regard, the cases that have been stretched enough to thin the web, should be measurably ad significantly longer than the non stretched cases.

Consequently, my thoughts are if you have .38 Special cases separating:

1. I'd check the head space on my .38s and .357s to see if one is on the large size;

2. I'd ensure that I'm not stretching the cases in the resizing process; and

3. I check to see if I had a number of cases that are unusually long.

[SundownIII]

It would help if you stated the firearm these rounds were fired in.

Were both separations from the same cylinder?

What was the loading (bullet, powder, etc).

My guess is that these cases had just reached their "life expectancy".

[H Richard]

I'm also one who has never had a separation in a straight wall shell. I'm very familiar with separations in the 7X30 Waters, especially rounds fire formed from 30-30 cases. Just curious if you have any inclination of how old those cases were? I've got 38 Spec brass that has been reloaded dozens, possibly over a hundred times. Now I mostly load with lead bullets at standard velocity or target velocity.
I still have a straightened out paper clip with about a 1/8" bend at the end, and the edge filed to a sharp edge. Makes a possible groove inside feel like a crater when you drag that over it.

[LoboGunLeather]

I have seen this a few times over the years. Usually right where the OP's cases separated, which is where the sizing die finishes its job, just forward of the web. Repeated expansion on firing, followed by resizing, resulting in a heavily worked area over time.

Those two cases are obviously done for. Some would consider it time to retire that batch of brass. One of the reasons for keeping each batch of brass together and records of how many times it has been reloaded is to allow us to make that kind of decision.

[retired_diver]

It has happened to me both in 38spl and 357 mag. but more in the 357. You get the resizing "ring" 1/4 to 3/8 inch above the rim. If you keep reloading it or change to a heavier loading then the head separates exactly like your pic. It usually happens to me about the time I start noticing that the nickel plating has been mostly worn off. I just purchased some 500 357mag brass because it was happening to often. threw away the old (after firing of course ). Most of the "old" was over 35 years old. Yes, I got my money worth out of them.

[just for fun]

Been there done that! Too much HS-6 too many times!

[Nevada Ed]

I have a old Winchester 357 Magnum case that did just that...............
3/4" up from the base it separated.... did get the small section
out of the 686 cylinder, though.

Way back I posted a picture of it, as well as some 38 special cases with case cracks
from the rim, down 3/4 of the case.

Its Brass.............. stuff happens every now and then.....
Just hope it is nothing Major.

Safe shooting.

[Engineer1911]

Originally Posted by retired_diver

It has happened to me both in 38spl and 357 mag. but more in the 357. You get the resizing "ring" 1/4 to 3/8 inch above the rim. If you keep reloading it or change to a heavier loading then the head separates exactly like your pic. It usually happens to me about the time I start noticing that the nickel plating has been mostly worn off. I just purchased some 500 357mag brass because it was happening to often. threw away the old (after firing of course ). Most of the "old" was over 35 years old. Yes, I got my money worth out of them.

How could you do this? You have no idea how many perfectly good X's and 10's you just threw way. You may have just lost an important match because of those carelessly discarded X's and 10's.

[Road Rat]

Originally Posted by SundownIII

It would help if you stated the firearm these rounds were fired in.

Were both separations from the same cylinder?

What was the loading (bullet, powder, etc).

My guess is that these cases had just reached their "life expectancy".

They, along with about fifty others, were fired in a Rossi Model 92 in 38/357 caliber.

It was only an inconvenience as it was an extremely hot day and I had to carefully dig out the portion stuck in the chamber...and then be sure to not attempt any rapid fire!!

[Alk8944]

So, the truth finally comes out! While case separations are extremely infrequent in revolvers they are fairly common in rifles, even straight chambers and cases. This is for the same reason as other case head separations with bottle-neck cartridges, either action flex or headspace. Even with the same cartridge this favors rifles. Rossi has never been known for holding particularly tight dimensions either!

Example of the difference. Years ago I had a Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum. Old cases gave severe extraction issues in the Marlin, where new brass was fine. Same ammunition fired in a Super Blackhawk gave absolutely no problems with extraction. The internal dynamics of rifles and revolvers are entirely different, even with the same ammunition.

[fredj338]

Agreed, it's often a headspace issue, even in a rev. Brass does get more brittle with time & work hardening, could be just that, but work hardening usually shows up in neck or vert splits.

[Duckford]

Burst head on 38 Special case, December 1st 2016, 2.8 grains Bullseye 158 grain SWC RimRock Winchester SPP, loaded on RCBS 7, shot from Model 27. I was hit by pressure and blast from the burst, but it only tickled because of the low power and pressure. Weapon was undamaged, finished the shooting series for the day without incident, Inspection of brass in lot showed no signs of headspace issues. Case is headstamped FC63, and the lot is an assorted lot from remanufactured ammunition from FreedomMunitions, and this lot has been reloaded by myself 4 times prior.

Suspected cause is old and worn brass, could have been nearly worn out by the time Freedom received it in exchange as a "once fired" piece. Brass indeed on closer inspection appear worn. The shot itself was normal, and the only reason I checked was because of the feel of the burst hitting my hand, so no sign of abnormal load, double charge, over pressure, ect. Firing 60 rounds after this incident the same day, no other head space issues on brass, suggests that the tight, late model M27 isn't having the headspace problem.

I'm now very curious myself about this phenomena. Any input from the community on possible problems or ideas is highly valued.

[Tom S.]

In over half a century of reloading (God am I old!) I've seen this on very rare occasion for straight walled brass. Each time was attributed to defective brass. On guy I know threw away a batch of 38 Special brass he had loaded over 50 times, not because there was anything visibly wrong with them, but just because of the number of times they had been loaded. Usually the problems encountered with straight wall brass is either case mouth splits or loose primer pockets. Separations are, AFAIK, the result of manufacturing defects.

EDIT: I will modify this post to say that if you are shooting hot loads and have an unusually tight sizing die, I suppose it would be possible to create a situation where the copper in the brass work hardens in the same spot sufficiently enough to create a case separation.

[67tempest]

I have had several .44 mag cases shot in my Mod 29 separate like that over the years. To be fair, I have been reloading the same brass for 30+ years so metal fatigue and failure are bound to occur. I look at each case closely now when prepping the brass and look for a discolored band about 3/8 of an inch or so up from the base. When that band appears I now throw the case away.

I also shoot .44 mag in a Marlin lever gun so I look at my brass more closely now. Removing the broken piece from a revolver cylinder is not a big deal, more of an issue I would think in a rifle.

[muddocktor]

I had one case of 357 Mag that this happened to 4-5 years ago. It happened in my 5" 27-2 and I noticed no difference when shooting it. But, when I went to eject them from the cylinder I had 5 cases drop out and one case head. It separated right above the web area. I was able to take a cleaning rod and push the body of the case out of the cylinder with no problem and there was no damage to the cylinder. The brass in question was very old and probably from the mid 70's and had been reloaded I don't know how many times, but a heck of a lot. Shortly after that I went ahead and retired that old brass and replaced it with new brass.

[DWalt]

I have experienced case splits in handgun cases, but never a head separation. Not so with rifle rounds, as I have seen many incipient case head separations and a few actual head separations, always with bottleneck cases. This is a result of excess headspace combined with full-length resizing. If you have a rifle with excessive headspace, the answer is to neck size only after the first firing. That's the best way to always get zero headspace.

[fccdfed]

About a month ago I too had the same thing happen. As I shot the six shots through the revolver the fourth shot sounded funny and actually felt like it might have been a magnum round. I know it wasn't because I reloaded these myself and I am very careful when measuring powder (measure every grain on every casing). Then after my 50 rounds loaded I visually inspect the amount of powder in each casing before moving on. I am confident that this was not an overload.
When I rolled the cylinder out and ejected the casings only a short piece of the lower case came out. The remaining case remained in the cylinder. Lucky for me all it took to remove the second piece from the cylinder was just a slight touch with a small screwdriver. When touched it just fell out. This shell case too was a Federal.
I inspected all the spent casings from that day and all the other casings I had in the reload bin. Not one indication of a split crack dent or a problem noted. I still have no idea why except possibly casing fatigue.

[twodog max]

I had a head separation about a month back with a Remington nickel case that had been loaded many many times. It happened in a 686 and the revolver and my off hand suffered no damage. The case fell out of the chamber when I ejected the cases. I wrote it off to a worn out case and really thought nothing more of it. I have encountered many split cases over the years and I think one failure like the picture. Comes with the territory when you load cases for years.