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Old 07-09-2013, 01:52 PM
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Default Pistol reloading

I have 9mm and 45acp lee carbide dies. Now i Understand no lube is necessary for resizing, now I'm reading lee's reloading data manual and it states if cases are too clean you may need a little lube, the dirt,soot,oxides and oil on cases keep them from galling the carbide. So I guess my question is do you guy clean your pistol brass before or after sizing.
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:59 PM
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I've never had to lube 45acp cases, but you will find sizing 9mm cases to require more force, so once in awhile I will use a little Imperial Sizing wax on my 9mm cases if they seem to be sizing hard in my carbide dies.
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:59 PM
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Before, I clean my brass as soon as possible after firing.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:06 PM
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Deprime, Clean. I wet tumble with Stainless Steel Pin Media.

Let dry, then I bench prime with an RCBS automatic bench primer setup

rather than using the PROGRESSIVE PRESS during part of the reloading process.

STORE the primed cases for whenever I choose to reload.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:31 PM
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I have reloaded many 9mm and 45acp cases and I have never had to lube the cases to resize. Just clean the cases before reloading, whatever method you choose. 9mm can be a little stubborn to resize.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:38 PM
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I've cleaned pistol cases before sizing and after sizing and the only difference is the inside of the die does get dirty.I never lube pistol cases and after 30 years the dies are just fine.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:39 PM
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I have never heard of "too clean" cases. I have used no case lube for my 38/357, .44 Spl./Mag., 45 ACP, and 9mm for the last 30 years reloading, with Lee carbide dies. I have reloaded both shiny, virgin looking polished brass, "raw" brass (cleaned with steel wool), and plain old fired brass (? of times). Sometimes a bit of lube on every 10th or so case will make the sizing a bit easier, but not at all necessary.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:07 PM
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For straight wall cartridges being run through carbide dies I never use lube. Whether the brass is never fired new production or if it has been fired many times. If the brass is really dirty I'll wipe it down to get the big chunks of crud off, but I do not have a tumbler.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:27 PM
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There's no chance that 9mm (etc) cases will be "too clean to resize" with carbide dies if tumbled in any of the dry media (with or without additives).

Since there's not much need to clean out primer pockets on pistol either, the straightforward choice is tumble, and decap/reload. The cases are clean going into all your dies, so there's no chance of dirt build-up or gamage to the dies.

You can also do it any other way you want as you learn and develop your own personal preferences.

EG, some folks who want various levels of clean primer pockets often decap using a non-sizing die and then tumble or water clean before reloading.

OTOH, some folks don't even tumble before reloading - maybe wiping down the outsides. Worst case, early replacement of pistol resizing dies that often cost less than a bag of tumbler media lol.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:03 PM
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Thanks for all the replies. I was kind of taken back by lee's comment in the data book. I use a sonic cleaner so I guess all your advise is well taken. I will clean than resize! I just started reloading so I always have questions but as many books I read there is nothing like asking experienced reloaders
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:35 PM
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Default If it takes a lot of force.....

... a little lube never hurt anything.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:42 PM
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I size/deprime, dry tumble & then clean the primer pockets & inspect the cases before storing them away for the next reloading session. Lee does state that sooty cases size better, but I like clean pockets so that is why I do it in this sequence.

Like "novalty" said, even with a TC sizer 9mm seem to be a little harder (because they're tapered cases & you make full contact) so a little lube every 4th or 5th case seems to help. Straight walled cases don't need lube with TC sizers.

Last edited by BLUEDOT37; 07-14-2013 at 03:23 AM. Reason: .
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
...Lee does state that sooty cases size better, but I like clean pockets so that is why I do it in this sequence...
Dillon also says that sooty cases are better. I don't tumble clean but I do lube, otherwise my SDB press doesn't run as smoothly.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonman View Post
Deprime, Clean. I wet tumble with Stainless Steel Pin Media.

Let dry, then I bench prime with an RCBS automatic bench primer setup

rather than using the PROGRESSIVE PRESS during part of the reloading process.

STORE the primed cases for whenever I choose to reload.
So what your saying is you don't even resize? Kinda crazy
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:26 PM
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Clean them and size them. Overthinking it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:54 AM
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I decap then wet tumble with SS pins and air dry. The brass comes out looking like brand new inside and out. I place a hundred or so cases in a 1 gallon zip lock bag and spray about 2 seconds with a dry lube. Then close the bag and tumble the brass to distribute the lube. That makes re-sizing and crimping much easier.

I've also used a Q-tip and wiped the sizing ring on the die with a little gun oil. That also helps, but the ring gets a build up of crud after awhile. With dry lube I don't get a build up.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:48 PM
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Here's the response I got from Lee

Benny:

That is correct, we do not recommend cleaning the brass before resizing it. The dirt and soot act as a lubricant when sizing the cases so will make it easier to size. Also, clean brass tends to gall or leave deposits behind on the carbide, which will build up and scratch your cases. While the scratching and scoring doesn't look pretty, it will not effect how your reloads perform at all.


Thank You,

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Old 07-10-2013, 03:18 PM
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I would assume they mean don't clean the tumble media dust off the "cleaned" cases before sizing them. If your brass is dirty with actual dirt and debris then you will score either the dies, the cases, or both.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:32 PM
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Hmm I don't think your left with dirt and soot after tumbling
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyS View Post
Here's the response I got from Lee

Benny:

...Also, clean brass tends to gall or leave deposits behind on the carbide, which will build up and scratch your cases. While the scratching and scoring doesn't look pretty, it will not effect how your reloads perform at all.
...
I think meant to say "dirty brass tends..."?
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:19 PM
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For my own process, I run 'em thru a bit of crushed walnut in a turbo cleaner for 5-20 minutes depending. Then separate, & when pouring into the case feeder, give a little shot of "One Shot" which simply makes it a bit easier for me to cycle the pistol cases through the carbide dies on my 650.

Appreciate hearing the Lee Co. comment, have noticed no particular issues when not actually cleaning my own cases. Usually they are not all the dirty from shooting anyway, as I have found generally cleaner recipes, and our range has concrete floors in most of the shooting bays.

There's a LOT of variation between 'ways that work' in the reloading process. Some of them even make sense to those doing the same in different ways.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:02 PM
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If you feel the need to lube them then do so....won't hurt anything. Carbide dies don't NEED to be lubed however.

Randy
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:16 PM
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From the Dillon operating manual for the XL650

LUBRICATING BRASS
To lubricate brass, use “Dillon Case
Lubricant” (#13733).
Pistol – If you’re using a carbide sizing
die, you will not need to lubricate your
cases (before sizing) when loading straightwalled
cases. If you’re not using a carbide
sizing die, you must lube the brass before
sizing. We do, however, recommend lubricating
all brass.


I clean my brass with an ultrasonic cleaner and when they're dry I spray them with "one shot" lube (very lightly). I used to tumble but don't really care about "shiney" brass and it was more work than it was worth. I shoot between 1000 to 1500 rounds a week (sometimes more, depends on what's going on) so I reload a fair amount. Lubing just makes everything smoother, I've tried without lube but it's a lot more effort. When I loaded on a turret press I didn't lube but the ram was only doing one operation at a time instead of 4 or 5 like a progressive press.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shield View Post
I think meant to say "dirty brass tends..."?
No, that's what it says in their reloading data manual.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:00 PM
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I clean before resizing and I don't use Lee dies.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyS View Post
No, that's what it says in their reloading data manual.
OK, thanks.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:18 AM
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I think it's impossible to gaul carbide w/ a brass case. What I have found is really clean brass requires more force to resize. One reason I am NOT a fan of ss/liquid tumbling for pistol cases, the cases are too clean, squeaky clean, & need a bit of case lube for best results.
Dry tumbling w/ a tsp of NuFinish makes the cases clean, shiney & a little slick. You always want to clean cases BEFORE sizing to keep grit out of the die. It can embed & then scratch the cases. Not so much in carbide, but certainly steel rifle dies.
Carbide pistol dies do NOT need ase lube. Sure, things run smoother with it, but it is NOT needed. The few carbide rifle die sets available still MUST BE used with case lube or the cases will stick.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:33 AM
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I've had brand new, clean carbide dies gall brand new, clean cases. The galling is caused by build up of brass, probably from the burr left on the case mouth. The galling is on the cases, not the dies.

That being said, I still tumble dirty cases before sizing.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:06 AM
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I've also read that cases should not be cleaned before sizing, but I've tried both ways and can't feel any difference when reloading on the LNL progressive. Others have said it is easier to seat the bullet when cases are still dirty inside because the burnt carbon acts as a lubricant. Again I've tried both ways and can't tell any difference.

One difference I do see is uncleaned or non-wet cleaned cases leave a lot more residue on the shell holder plate and the base plate of the LNL. The Hornady LNL press is very picky about debris getting in or around the primer punch. Just a little dirt can lock up the press and you have to take shell holder off, remove the primer slide and clean all the debris out. It's not a big deal, but it is annoying. That almost never happens if the cases have been wet cleaned.

I used to use a vibratory cleaner and I didn't like the noise and dust it created. The dust built up over time and was a real pain to clean because it got every where. Also trying reload or work next to a vibratory cleaner was another pain. I started wearing ear protection.

I like brass that looks brand new. I understand it is not necessary, but I like it anyway. It's kinda like a clean car. A dirty car runs just a good as a clean car, but I like a clean car better.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:59 AM
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A Dillon powder funnel/expander die tends to stick in new or chemically cleaned cases. The larger the case, the greater the tendency to stick. Sticking occurs as the case is withdrawn. This die is not carbide. It helps to polish the die with crocus cloth, and apply a little case lubricant to the die as needed.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neumann View Post
A Dillon powder funnel/expander die tends to stick in new or chemically cleaned cases. The larger the case, the greater the tendency to stick. Sticking occurs as the case is withdrawn. This die is not carbide. It helps to polish the die with crocus cloth, and apply a little case lubricant to the die as needed.
Right, I have the same issue with my Dillon with 9mm cases that are not lubricated, even dirty cases. I first tried lubricant on the die, but it wore off too fast, so went with lubing the cases.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:32 PM
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I've loaded 38 spl, 9mm, & 45 acp, and never lubed any of them. Both RCBS & now Lee dies. I tried tumbling after sizing/depriming once, and got little bits of tumbling media in the primer pockets & flash holes. I won't be doing that again.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:58 PM
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Never fails.....I was taught years ago to clean then resize, now the rules change, dirty case is better in the resizer.
Resize then clean....I think everybody can just do it whatever way they please! The conflicting reloading infomation just never ends does it?
For the record , I run fired cases thru the tumbler then resize, prime and load. Media will clog primer pockets and flash holes....but thats just the way I would rather do it. Never had a problem with clean cases resized in a carbide die. But I use treated walnut hulls with a little car polish added and the car polish may act as a light lubricant.
People who clean with water and detergent may be having the problems.
Gary
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:35 PM
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I tumble first then decap/size. On the big bores like .44 mag and .45 colt I just spray a little Ballistol on my fingertips every 25 - 30 rounds. Makes the process much easier.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stev32k View Post
I've also read that cases should not be cleaned before sizing, but I've tried both ways and can't feel any difference when reloading on the LNL progressive. .
Not sure where you read such a thing, but it is recommend to always clean the brass before sizing. It doesn't have to be shiney, but should be clean of any dirt. Your dies, but I don't put dirty brass in mine.
BTW, the only way to get tumbling dust everyhwere is tumble w/ the lid off or use the old style Lyman slotted lids. That is just foolish. Put a lid on it, no dust escapes. I empty my tumbler outside, wear a dust mask & be upwind.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:00 AM
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Dry tumbling with the lid OFF, ABSOLUTELY NO WAY.

You're putting lead compounds and junk into your immediate area.

That's a good way to stimulate Lead Poisoning.

LEAD IS EXTREMELY HARMFUL TO YOUNG CHILDREN AND WON'T DO YOU ANY GOOD EITHER.

Wear Nitrile or Latex gloves when handling the tumbling media or cases.

Change your media it's full of harmful things, SOME FOLKS THINK IT NEAT TO REUSE THE STUFF FOREVER.

IT'S CHEAP, CHANGE IT, AND KEEP THE LID ON.

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Old 07-12-2013, 06:38 AM
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Agree with you Moonman, and would also add to never tumble brass in a vibratory tumbler inside, place outside when possible. Used dryer sheets to help collect a bunch of particles, I usually cut them up into 4 smaller pieces and toss in the batch.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Not sure where you read such a thing, but it is recommend to always clean the brass before sizing.
In the Lee reloading data manual. and an email answer from Lee customer service!
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyS View Post
In the Lee reloading data manual. and an email answer from Lee customer service!
That dosent make sense to me.. against everything anyone has said....

All that dirt and Grime in yer die's... Not Mine....

Cleaning Brass dosent change it in anyway besides Cleaning it..... But dirty Brass is well.. DIRTY... so adding the gunk in yer die cant be a good thing...


Anyways... clean it 1st...
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:55 AM
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Read the Lee Manual. Twice. Then again. Says to lubricate 9mm ( and another but I can't remember). Going to try diluting case lube with alcohol and giving a spray. As a newbie, I would rather be safe than sorry. And I'm loading on a single stage so my production is real low.
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Old 07-13-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugkiller99 View Post
Read the Lee Manual. Twice. Then again. Says to lubricate 9mm ( and another but I can't remember). Going to try diluting case lube with alcohol and giving a spray. As a newbie, I would rather be safe than sorry. And I'm loading on a single stage so my production is real low.
Note that if you are tumbling in dry media, you will likely be the only person lubing 9mm cases
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:03 PM
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I'm guessing the advice you got from Lee was from a Summer Intern, or maybe a new hire working the phones on the front desk. Never heard such a thing. Then again, after 30 years of reloading I'm still learning new things. I'll keep cleaning/sizing my brass....
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
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Note that if you are tumbling in dry media, you will likely be the only person lubing 9mm cases
Until I get more experience, I'll follow the manual. I have spray lubed several hundred casings, minimal time/money invested.
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